Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[bookitty]

Your characterization of Zimmerman may be correct (I'm inclined in that direction, but that's just my personal bias) but I think your characterization of the police is a bit off. My understanding is that the police couldn't arrest Zimmerman after they had corroborated his story along with the evidence and eye-witnesses they had due to the current Florida laws. If information surfaced that cast doubt on the original story (which it apparently is), the police could then take Zimmerman into custody and charge him.

Perhaps we'll find out that the police involved were incompetent. But it seems that most of the cries of police misconduct seem to be centered on a misunderstanding or ignorance. Or maybe that's just my personal bias again.

I'll freely admit that my bias against the Sanford PD is based on their past response and cover-up of senseless crimes against people of color.

 

[sgtbaker]

I didn't hear him say front, but in the south "front door" tends to mean whichever one you use the most.

Also, I imagine the yards are close together.

I checked and heard nothing about front door, other than they interviewed "John" through his front door. The place they say the altercation took place was in front of his back door.

 

[Unabogie]

I'm confused. When they say "here is where the altercation took place", I can see the street. How would that be in the back yard?

 

[Gazpacho]

* Mr. Super-Neighborhood Watch guy apparently didn't know the name of the streets which he patrols on a regular basis.

It's a loop of nondistinct houses.

 

[WildCat]

Except for the part about Martin attacking him without provocation.

Which again is an assumption on your part. There is no evidence at this time that Zimmerman attacked Martin.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Here is a screen cap of the reporter walking and saying 'right here where the action took place'



Which I think is right here on the map:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=sanfo...094&hnear=Sanford,+Seminole,+Florida&t=h&z=18

Crap. Can't figure out how to drop a pin in the location between the houses. If you go to maps.google.com and put in the coordinates, it works. Don't know how to make it a link :-(

+28° 47' 31.50", -81° 19' 46.55" (28.792083, -81.329598)

 

[bookitty]

It's a loop of nondistinct houses.

I grew up in a similar loop. They aren't identical. Sure, people get lost the first week they live there. After that you know which car parks in which driveway, which street has a sharper turn, which corner house has less yard, who has white flowers, etc, etc. The human brain is pretty good at identifying oft-seen landmarks.

 

[AlexW]

Was his phone right with him, or did it possibly take them time to find it?

Was it possibly broken?

From an article I read today, the cops said the phone was locked; and they were in the process of getting a legal-whatever-you-need to unlock it.

 

[Unabogie]

Here is a screen cap of the reporter walking and saying 'right here where the action took place'

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=25631http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_500444f6b8d5e6c4f2.jpg

Which I think is right here on the map:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=sanfo...094&hnear=Sanford,+Seminole,+Florida&t=h&z=18

Crap. Can't figure out how to drop a pin in the location between the houses. If you go to maps.google.com and put in the coordinates, it works. Don't know how to make it a link :-(

+28° 47' 31.50", -81° 19' 46.55" (28.792083, -81.329598)

I am seeing it now. When they show the police cars, they seem to be close to the road. So to get it straight, they were off Twin Trees, in between the houses, where you see the sidewalk?

So a scuffle that happened behind one house may have moved to another location, but that's not established.

 

[johnny karate]

Which again is an assumption on your part. There is no evidence at this time that Zimmerman attacked Martin.

Except for the part where he murdered him, of course.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I am seeing it now. When they show the police cars, they seem to be close to the road. So to get it straight, they were off Twin Trees, in between the houses, where you see the sidewalk?

That is what I gather from that news report. He is in between the houses that are perpendicular to the entrance on twin tree, close to the twin tree end.

So a scuffle that happened behind one house may have moved to another location, but that's not established.

Yes, maybe. If Zimmerman was 'attacked' outside his truck could be one scuffle - we still don't know where he parked I guess.

Definitely in the backyard where the eyewitness said he saw it was a scuffle.

 

[sgtbaker]

I grew up in a similar loop. They aren't identical. Sure, people get lost the first week they live there. After that you know which car parks in which driveway, which street has a sharper turn, which corner house has less yard, who has white flowers, etc, etc. The human brain is pretty good at identifying oft-seen landmarks.

Again, that is not part of Zimmerman's statement. That is something the news added in, themselves, as Zimmerman has not spoken publicly about the incident. According to the news, Zimmerman admits to following Martin, it says nothing about trying to figure out what road he is on.

 

[RobRoy]

I grew up in a similar loop. They aren't identical. Sure, people get lost the first week they live there. After that you know which car parks in which driveway, which street has a sharper turn, which corner house has less yard, who has white flowers, etc, etc. The human brain is pretty good at identifying oft-seen landmarks.

Same here. No defense for Mr. Zimmerman, but IIRC the events took place at night, during a rainstorm.

 

[tyr_13]

It would be nice to have Zimmerman's actual account. What it seems is happening is a lot of speculation and assumptions by people are getting mixed in and then passed along as if it were his claim like some horrid game of 'telephone'.

 

[sgtbaker]

It would be nice to have Zimmerman's actual account. What it seems is happening is a lot of speculation and assumptions by people are getting mixed in and then passed along as if it were his claim like some horrid game of 'telephone'.

A guy on a local radio station was talking about how one news outlet will print a story without fact checking and another will just reprint the same story and it continues to get retold until it's truth.

 

[WildCat]

Except for the part where he murdered him, of course.

No one disputes that. The question is, was it justified? And if the prosecution cannot show that it was Zimmerman who attacked Martin first a conviction becomes much more difficult.

 

[bookitty]

It would be nice to have Zimmerman's actual account. What it seems is happening is a lot of speculation and assumptions by people are getting mixed in and then passed along as if it were his claim like some horrid game of 'telephone'.

We have Zimmerman's account on the 911 calls. He saw someone who looked suspicious, expressed frustration that *those* suspects always get away, and then stalked Martin. The assault was premeditated.

 

[RobRoy]

A guy on a local radio station was talking about how one news outlet will print a story without fact checking and another will just reprint the same story and it continues to get retold until it's truth.

If this story is to be believed even large news organizations with decent track records can fall victim.

 

[leftysergeant]

Which again is an assumption on your part. There is no evidence at this time that Zimmerman attacked Martin.

Fatso could be said to have provoked Martin into attacking him by trying to corner him. Martin was within his legal rights.

 

[RobRoy]

We have Zimmerman's account on the 911 calls. He saw someone who looked suspicious, expressed frustration that *those* suspects always get away, and then stalked Martin. The assault was premeditated.

Wait, wait, wait. The "stalking" was premeditated based on the 911 call. The 911 call doesn't show that the assault was premeditated.