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Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

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RobRoy said:
It appears to be mutual and I can't determine if there was an actual restraining order or not. The articles mention that it was filed, but not if it was accepted (or whatever the legal term is). Everything else is just accusations, none of which would preclude him from a conceal-to-carry.
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i would have to get more information on the Florida laws, but in a "may-issue" state he would have been told to pound sand.
 
TheL8Elvis said:
This is what I heard the man interviewed say:

the guy on the bottom, who I believe had a red sweater on, was yelling 'help help'. I told him to stop and I was calling 911.
And then when I got upstairs and looked down, the person that was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point.

This seems to be relevant to all the claims that it was martin screaming for help.
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Sorry I missed this one. How? He said the guy on the bottom (in the red sweater) was on the bottom, screaming for help. Zimmerman was wearing the red sweater. He corroborates Zimmerman's story.
 
sgtbaker said:
Sorry I missed this one. How? He said the guy on the bottom (in the red sweater) was on the bottom, screaming for help. Zimmerman was wearing the red sweater. He corroborates Zimmerman's story.
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Relevant in the sense that it seems to provide eyewitness account of who was screaming help (zimmerman). And as evidence against the claim that it was Martin screaming. (especially relevant to wildcat, who stood by his claim that just hearing the scream would not allow one to determine who was screaming.)
 
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sgtbaker said:
Sorry I missed this one. How? He said the guy on the bottom (in the red sweater) was on the bottom, screaming for help. Zimmerman was wearing the red sweater. He corroborates Zimmerman's story.
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Except for the part about Martin attacking him without provocation.

By the SYG standards, Martin was justified in using force.
 
Well, I think it's possible there were two locations in play here. Martin was accosted by Zimmerman and got the better of him. During that time, Zimmerman was yelling for help. Martin got up to flee again, and this time Zimmerman cornered him in a SECOND location, and this is where Cutcher is the witness. She sees they are not wrestling anymore. At this point, Zimmerman has his gun out, so Martin is the one screaming. These two things are not mutually exclusive. The first witness was saying the wrestling happened in his front yard (you can see the street in the video). The second witness (Cutcher) says it happened in her backyard.
 
sgtbaker said:
Sorry I missed this one. How? He said the guy on the bottom (in the red sweater) was on the bottom, screaming for help. Zimmerman was wearing the red sweater. He corroborates Zimmerman's story.
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Zimmerman's story is that he stalked Martin and then, after getting out of his car to check the street signs because he was lost*, was jumped from behind by a 17-year old who he was then forced to shoot.

All this 911 call corroborates is that Martin, after being stalked, fought back or "stood his ground." As apparently it is legal to do.

This whole story stinks on ice. Zimmerman was a paranoid wanna-be Rambo who got his kicks by playing mall cop. When his fantasies resulted in the senseless death of a 17-year old kid, the cops patted him on the head and let him go. I'm surprised they didn't stand around and take trophy pictures.


* Mr. Super-Neighborhood Watch guy apparently didn't know the name of the streets which he patrols on a regular basis.
 
TheL8Elvis said:
Relevant in the sense that it seems to provide eyewitness account of who was screaming help (zimmerman). And as evidence against the claim that it was Martin screaming. (especially relevant to wildcat, who stood by his claim that just hearing the scream would not allow one to determine who was screaming.)
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Okay, gotcha. This one doesn't seem to be about hearing, it's about seeing;
He said, "...was yelling to me, "Help help," and I told them to stop and I was calling 911..." He was out there, and saw who was yelling.
 
bookitty said:
Zimmerman's story is that he stalked Martin and then, after getting out of his car to check the street signs because he was lost*, was jumped from behind by a 17-year old who he was then forced to shoot.
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It's interesting where they got that information since no news outlet has been able to reach Zimmerman and that is not the account he gave to police. Zimmerman admits to following him and said nothing about checking road signs.
 
sgtbaker said:
Sorry I missed this one. How? He said the guy on the bottom (in the red sweater) was on the bottom, screaming for help. Zimmerman was wearing the red sweater. He corroborates Zimmerman's story.
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I think that's one part of the story that we can probably rely on, but far from the whole story.

At some point during the incident, Martin was winning a fight with Zimmerman.
 
The important part there is probable cause, not which charge the probable cause would generate.

Under any circumstances, the police need to clear a certain threshold to act, and they couldn't have had any probable cause that would have refuted the claim of innocence, because they weren't looking for any.

That inaction is the crux of the matter, not so much other factors that may be used in a future trial to establish credibility and intent.

And everyone should read Freddy's post #883 about reasonableness in court, vs. in everyday vocabulary.
 
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sgtbaker said:
Okay, gotcha. This one doesn't seem to be about hearing, it's about seeing;
He said, "...was yelling to me, "Help help," and I told them to stop and I was calling 911..." He was out there, and saw who was yelling.
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Right. So far, this witness said he saw Zimmerman under Martin, and Zimmerman yelled 'help help.'

I dunno if there were two altercations, but in this account it seems it was martin beating on zimmerman, zimmerman yelling for help, then zimmerman shooting martin.
 
I saw the case on Anderson today. I now think there is probably enough evidence to convict.
 
bookitty said:
This whole story stinks on ice. Zimmerman was a paranoid wanna-be Rambo who got his kicks by playing mall cop. When his fantasies resulted in the senseless death of a 17-year old kid, the cops patted him on the head and let him go. I'm surprised they didn't stand around and take trophy pictures.
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Your characterization of Zimmerman may be correct (I'm inclined in that direction, but that's just my personal bias) but I think your characterization of the police is a bit off. My understanding is that the police couldn't arrest Zimmerman after they had corroborated his story along with the evidence and eye-witnesses they had due to the current Florida laws. If information surfaced that cast doubt on the original story (which it apparently is), the police could then take Zimmerman into custody and charge him.

Perhaps we'll find out that the police involved were incompetent. But it seems that most of the cries of police misconduct seem to be centered on a misunderstanding or ignorance. Or maybe that's just my personal bias again.
 
TheL8Elvis said:
He didn't say 'front' did he ? I think that's his backyard ? Unless the front door is a sliding glass door.
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I didn't hear him say front, but in the south "front door" tends to mean whichever one you use the most.

Also, I imagine the yards are close together.
 
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