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Where are the truther millionaires?

Jimmy Walter has given up on 9/11 Truth.
http://reopen911.org/
Just to be clear, while he might not be updating his web site any more, he's still a true believer. And no more credible than the rest of them. A while ago he copied me in to a laughable email claiming he'd debunked what I'd said about the Mineta timeline, then putting forward one basic point, which I'd addressed already on the very page he claimed to be refuting...

So anyway, I wouldn't expect anything special from truther millionaires. They seem to just as desperately want to believe as the rest of their brethren.
 
Well, actually, something I have been wondering about.

Have any of these Celebrity Truthers finally thrown in the towel and acknowledged they were "not quite right"?

The Sheens seem to be into the whole truth thing too. I remember a movie that was "in production" about the 9/11 "conspiracy" that starred Martin Sheen. You'd think as a family with more than enough resources they'd be willing to right this horrible wrong.
 
Just to be clear, while he might not be updating his web site any more, he's still a true believer. And no more credible than the rest of them. A while ago he copied me in to a laughable email claiming he'd debunked what I'd said about the Mineta timeline, then putting forward one basic point, which I'd addressed already on the very page he claimed to be refuting...

So anyway, I wouldn't expect anything special from truther millionaires. They seem to just as desperately want to believe as the rest of their brethren.

Oh, I don't doubt that he's still a nut. My point is that all the truther fundraisers we see fail to reach their goals.

And why can't Jimmy Walter, Charlie Sheen, Alex Jones, Rosie O'Donnell, Ed Asner, etc etc create a new 9/11 Commission or NIST report to prove their inside jobbity jobby? Or donate to Remember Buidling 7's advertising campaign to promote da Truth?

Probably because they're splitters, and don't like many other members of their own movement due to disagreeing delusions.
 
Oh, I don't doubt that he's still a nut. My point is that all the truther fundraisers we see fail to reach their goals.

And why can't Jimmy Walter, Charlie Sheen, Alex Jones, Rosie O'Donnell, Ed Asner, etc etc create a new 9/11 Commission or NIST report to prove their inside jobbity jobby? Or donate to Remember Buidling 7's advertising campaign to promote da Truth?

Probably because they're splitters, and don't like many other members of their own movement due to disagreeing delusions.

My first thought when you say that, Orphia, is it's just like Christianity (or Islam, for that matter). The "true believers" all have their own version of the "true belief"
 
Ha, ha, ha!

So this is what it has come down to for the Government Truther Fundamentalist Movement. How many millionaires they have on their side!

Ah ha, ha, ha!
 
Ha, ha, ha!

So this is what it has come down to for the Government Truther Fundamentalist Movement. How many millionaires they have on their side!

Ah ha, ha, ha!

Hilarious, if you ignore the fact that noone's claimed that, and you ignore all the thousands of threads in this forum proving no inside job, and the millions of facts in the public sphere. :oldroll:
 
Many posts moved to AAH.

Please keep to the thread topic. Thanks.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Gaspode
 
My first thought when you say that, Orphia, is it's just like Christianity (or Islam, for that matter). The "true believers" all have their own version of the "true belief"

Thus the reason for the Episcopal, Lutheran, Methodist, Pentecostal, Baptist, Adventist, Protestant Reformed, Evangelical, and Congregational Churches (to name a few).
 
My first thought when you say that, Orphia, is it's just like Christianity (or Islam, for that matter). The "true believers" all have their own version of the "true belief"

Thus the reason for the Episcopal, Lutheran, Methodist, Pentecostal, Baptist, Adventist, Protestant Reformed, Evangelical, and Congregational Churches (to name a few).

I am reminded of this:

christianhistory.jpg


:)

Someone should do a version of the history of the truth movement.

To tie this in with my OP, along that "family tree" are a number of rich nuts, but they don't seem to know what most of the other nuts are doing.

Mostly because they're splitters, but also because they're all stuck in 2005.
 
I'd like to say I find this surprising, but I don't. It increasingly appears to me that the model of knowledge used by Truthers of all strips is religion, particularly Christianity. So this fight over the brand of Truthdom and its splintering to fragments all over the place probably doesn't seem like an issue to most of them. I can imagine that for Gage and DRG, disagreement over fundamental aspects of the conspiracy, even after 10 years, doesn't seem like an problem. The idea that key aspects of their argument are no true might not seem like it's a major problem for their belief system.

But honestly, I have trouble imaging this kind of knowledge and the kind of thinking it supports. It just all appears muddled - isn't that the term you once used Orphia?
 
Yep, I called it muddled thinking. They grasp at factoids from all over the place and make up their own theories (because they think they're undiscovered geniuses) without ever learning critical thinking and ever checking their facts against science, physics, history and logic.

No, it's not surprising that truther fundraisers fail. It's become a predictably enjoyable pasttime to watch a lone truther or organisation of loners make a sad attempt at change and seeing them be foiled by the fragmented nature of the movement.
 
Yep, I called it muddled thinking. They grasp at factoids from all over the place and make up their own theories (because they think they're undiscovered geniuses) without ever learning critical thinking and ever checking their facts against science, physics, history and logic.

No, it's not surprising that truther fundraisers fail. It's become a predictably enjoyable pasttime to watch a lone truther or organisation of loners make a sad attempt at change and seeing them be foiled by the fragmented nature of the movement.

Thinking about this way makes me wonder if failing in their fund-raising is the issue to them that it seems to be to us. We look at it as a failure of their logic to convince people. I'm not sure a faith-based group sees it this way. I'm almost wondering if they see it as a failure of their message to give meaning to people's lives. There is a subtle difference - or at least I mean there to be one. The failure of logic implies that the problem is a flaw in their facts or their argument structure. The failure to deliver meaning implies that the problem lies in their rhetoric rather than the factual nature of their message. As a result, changing the facts or the logic is not what you need to make your message more suitable to a wider audience. Instead, you need to adjust the language of the message.

Or at least something like this. Maybe you can help me refine this.
 
As George Monbiot, writing in the Guardian newspaper a few years ago about 9/11 Truth, put it:

"The great virtue of a fake conspiracy is that it calls on you to do nothing".
You've really hit on something there. Some of you know I was a conspiracy theorist re the US government in general back in the 80s. There was something dark and impenetrable about the kinds of antiwar movements I was involved in. Very different from the traditional peace movement, where there was all kind of action and organizing to try to get the US military out of Central America. I was kind of straddling both worlds.

There was this dark intimation being fomented by the Christic Institute that somehow the CIA was involved with pushing Iraq into invading Kuwait. They found a quote from an Iraqi diplomat who had said, "We have papers proving the the US met secretly with the Kuwaitis to plot our destruction." The Kuwaiti diplomat, who was also in the room when the Iraqis made this claim, passed out. The Christic Institute speaker squinted his eyes and whispered darkly, "What was in those papers that prove CIA complicity with the Kuwaitis?"

Now the thing about dark conspiracies is that they leave you feeling incredibly helpless. Their intelligence and power is infinite, and you can't even find out what they are doing. But here I saw an opportunity to break through and get the truth! As the leader of the Colorado Peace Mission, a volunteer lobbying group for peace-related causes, I was flying to Washington DC to try to convince congresspeople not to go to war with Iraq. While there, I thought that first I would try to find that secret paper.

I walked into the Iraqi foreign embassy and asked them why they invaded Kuwait. They said Kuwait lowered their oil prices and Iraq was mad at them so they invaded. Was the CIA involved, I asked? No, not really. Do you know about the secret paper re Kuwait and the US conspiring against you? Yes, I have it right here. The paper was a transcript of a meeting between an American and a Kuwaiti diplomat that went something like this:

American diplomat: It would sure be great for the American economy if you lowered your oil prices.

Kuwaiti diplomat: I think we can arrange that.

American: Great!

I see a similar dynamic in 9/11 Truth circles, people complaining and harping about needing an independent investigation. They could have done what I did and organize an independent investigation of the WTC dust. No need to wait for a rich person to do it either. Generally I try to avoid these kinds of statements, but I do think that bringing things into the light does not happen in a conspiracy theory because it threatens the theory. In the late 1980s I set out to prove a conspiracy theory right and actually proved it wrong.
 

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