I have a problem with Harry Potter

[Soapy Sam]

You mean like Alice in Wonderland and Wind in the Willows? Nope, won't give up my comfort books.

I wouldn't class either of those as childrens' books. In particular, I never knew anyone under twenty to really enjoy Dodgson.

Doesn't sound like this one is giving you much comfort though. I read the first book, a year or so after it came out, but it left me unmotivated to read the later ones.

 

[cwalner]

It's the "pointless subplots" that interest me most, and what give the series (or any work) depth. Compare that to most fantasy where only a handful of people in the entire universe matter- Moorcock, I'm looking at you.

Its a balancing act. I don't think Rowling spun out too many subplots and really enjoyed the series. Jordan, on the other hand ...

 

[Madalch]

The "Harry the Angsty Wizard" aspect of the book made it tough for me to enjoy.

The fact that he could have avoided the whole battle at the end by having unwrapped his Christmas present from Sirius at any point in the semester really made Sirius' death pointless and the book far more depressing than otherwise.

 

[Piscivore]

I wouldn't class either of those as childrens' books. In particular, I never knew anyone under twenty to really enjoy Dodgson.

It was my daughter's favourite book and one she enjoyed may times after she learned to read for herself, around age four.

 

[Piscivore]

Its a balancing act. I don't think Rowling spun out too many subplots and really enjoyed the series. Jordan, on the other hand ...

Ugh, point taken. I gave up on Jordan early on. He killed fantasy for me for a long time, pretty much until the LotR movies came out.

 

[pgwenthold]

Umbridge is a repulsive character, but still intersting. She seems to me to be the bureaucrat from hell, not intrinsically evil, but authoritarian-gone-overboard.

Oh, I disagree. Umbridge was absolutely intrinsically evil.

Note how quickly she jumped into the role of the Anti-Muggle part of the new ministry. Had no trouble at all adapting to the anti-muggle position, and completely enjoyed tormenting muggle-borns at the hearings.

She had that evil in her the whole time. It was the overthrow of the ministry where she was able to unleash it.

 

[Piscivore]

I just cannot tolerate Umbridge; she reminds me very strongly of people I deal with.

That's why I "love" her as a villain. She's the true face of evil, not the Voldemorts, not the "Evil for Evil's Sake" cartoon baddies.

 

[Soapy Sam]

It was my daughter's favourite book and one she enjoyed may times after she learned to read for herself, around age four.

I don't think I've had the pleasure of meeting the lady.

Your daughter notwithstanding, I maintain that CLD is best appreciated by adults- but I was thinking of books to be read by children rather than read to them. Maybe having the book read to a child predisposes him or her to later enjoy reading it?

 

[Piscivore]

I don't think I've had the pleasure of meeting the lady.

Your daughter notwithstanding, I maintain that CLD is best appreciated by adults- but I was thinking of books to be read by children rather than read to them. Maybe having the book read to a child predisposes him or her to later enjoy reading it?

I think that's likely true. What he did in "Alice" is now commonplace in kid lit and film- having a solid, fun story the kids can enjoy on it's face, but including a lot of cultural reference and depth for the adults. It's one of the reasons AiW has such staying power- adults are more likely to read something to the spawn they can enjoy as well, instead of the droll, tedious tales from the same time period that are lost and forgotten now.

 

[JohnG]

I never tried reading the Alice books as a child (I finally got around to them much later in life), but one thing I would've appreciated then (as I do now) was that the story doesn't try to clobber the reader over the head with a moral - at least not with a conventional "eat your vegetables and obey your parents" moral. Also, Alice can be kind and cruel, polite and rude, frightened and heroic, demure and bossy, bored and excited - in other words more like a real child than you tend to see in children's literature.

There really are several other levels to enjoy the book on rather than just the surreally picaresque children's adventure, though at this point probably only the Martin Gardner annotated edition of the two books would enable the reader to fully appreciate just how rich they are.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The "Harry the Angsty Wizard" aspect of the book made it tough for me to enjoy.

The fact that he could have avoided the whole battle at the end by having unwrapped his Christmas present from Sirius at any point in the semester really made Sirius' death pointless and the book far more depressing than otherwise.

I thought he did unwrap it, but forgot it?

 

[Mudcat]

I have a problem with Harry Potter

Really? Just the one, in book five? What did you do, sleep read through the first four? I wish there was a blog or something dissecting the problems with the series. I often compare it with Star Wars in that it's more popular than good, but it's more like Final Fantasy VII in that it brings in a lot of people into a media (books in the case of Harry Potter) that they might not have considered before without having seen better works from people with actual tallent.

It's an unfair comparason, I know (as Star Wars and Final Fantasy VII had actual substance and their makers had actual tallent). I reconmend ditching the hack and read some books from people with actual tallent.

 

[Madalch]

I thought he did unwrap it, but forgot it?

No- he forgot about it until the last chapter, and only found out what it was because Sirius put a note in with it.

 

[ronin688]

Really? Just the one, in book five? What did you do, sleep read through the first four? I wish there was a blog or something dissecting the problems with the series.

Sounds like it'd be a good project for you.

I personally try not to dissect books I'm reading for pleasure. It's fiction, if it doesn't all hang together perfectly that doesn't mean you can't enjoy it.

My father was a champ at ruining pretty much every movie we ever saw together by pointing out plot holes and violations of the laws of physics. Sometimes you have to suspend disbelief and just enjoy the story.

 

[Mudcat]

Sometimes you have to suspend disbelief and just enjoy the story.

Suspending disbelief is one thing. Enjoying Harry Potter would require to suspend good taste.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Really? Just the one, in book five? What did you do, sleep read through the first four? I wish there was a blog or something dissecting the problems with the series.

What ronin said. I read the books for enjoyment, and didn't pick up on any significant problems when I did.

 

[ronin688]

Suspending disbelief is one thing. Enjoying Harry Potter would require to suspend good taste.

Ahh ok, well I'm sure you know that taste is subjective? You may as well insult my taste in music, or my taste in ethnic foods, it doesn't mean anything.

I don't believe that my taste is somehow superior to yours. I'm sure you like music and books I do not, and vice versa. That doesn't make what you like somehow better or worse then what I like.

 

[fuelair]

One of my favorite parts in any of the books is when Fred and George leave. The movie version was fun but the details in the book are much better (my opinion).

Mine too!!! So, there you go!!

 

[saraban]

It never gets better. I reached the same point with Phineas Redux about 18 years ago. I just got stuck And until I read it I can't read the rest of the series.

The next book The Prime Minister is now helping hold my bed up.

 

[Mudcat]

Ahh ok, well I'm sure you know that taste is subjective? You may as well insult my taste in music, or my taste in ethnic foods, it doesn't mean anything.

I don't believe that my taste is somehow superior to yours. I'm sure you like music and books I do not, and vice versa. That doesn't make what you like somehow better or worse then what I like.

This isn't anything remotely what I'm claiming. For all I know you could be a fan of some authors that are actually worth a damn. That you suspended your good taste in better fiction and enjoyed Harry Potter is no more significant than suspending disbelief for the same. But you still had to suspend your better taste to do it.