Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga

[threadworm]

Just in case you missed my last post Tomblvd, I'll direct this one right at ya' as you seem to like the medical stuff well enough. This point clearly changes Apollo forever, not really sure how any one can respond to it but with concession on your side and celebration on ours. That said, I'll toss it up as a garden variety question.

Take a look at this;

http://www.oxygen-review.com/carbon-dioxide.html

An average sized person, you or I, would "make" a little over 2 pounds of CO2 in a day, a kilogram.

300 feet of fresh air needs to ventilate the environment of each person EACH HOUR. Here on earth, we need not worry too much about this. Even indoors, fresh air reaches us.

In the Apollo 13 space capsule, the crew cabin volume was 218 cu ft (6.2 m3) living space and pressurized 366 cu ft (10,3 m3).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Command/Service_Module

In the Apollo 13 LM/Aquarius one finds the crew cabin volume to be 235 cu ft (6.7 m3).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_module

Let's call the living space into which the astronauts were expiring 500 cubic feet.


The alleged explosion occurred April 14, 1970, 03:07:53 UTC (April 13, 21:07:53 CST, 55:54:53 Ground Elapsed time.)



Splash was April 17, 1970, 18:07:41 UTC (142:54:47 Ground Elapsed Time). Crew was on board the Iwo Jima 45 minutes later.

So from the time of explosion 'til splash one finds 3 days and 15 hours passed. As they allegedly had power for a couple hours from the time of the alleged explosion, just to give myself some good ballpark numbers to work with, I'll use 3 days and 13 hours as the time the astronauts produced CO2 without power. This gives 3 days X 3 kg per day, plus an additional 13/24 X 3 = 1.625.

So Tomblvd, one is looking at 10.625 kilograms or equivalently, 23.375 pounds of carbon dioxide that must be scrubbed from the imagined Aquarius/Odyssey joint 500 cubic foot cabin.

This cannot be done passively. The CO2 does not float through the scrubbing apparatus, it must be cycled through, ACTIVELY MOVED. If this is not done, the astronauts' blood would become acidic. The hypercapnea would narcotize them and they would die.

So here really is our GRAND MOMENT OF TRUTH Tomblvd, 10 months of work in a nutshell, in a capsule. One sees Apollo, all of Apollo as fraudulent as there was no power to operate the ventilating system.

Worth a quick look;

http://www.apollosaturn.com/facts_figs.htm

http://www.apollosaturn.com/facts_figs.htm

This little blurb makes a great point. The kids playing around with this use their own lung power to push the CO2 through the scrubber;

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081027070352AAWTnit

In space, this is done by the environmental system dedicated to scrubbing at a relatively high energy cost.

This system was not operating during the fantasy Apollo 13 Mission. As such, one concludes with unmitigated metaphysical certitude that Apollo, all of Apollo is full on , flat out, over the top bogus.

How was CO2 removed before the accident?

How was CO2 removed in all the other missions?

Did Apollo 13 take enough equipment to scrub CO2 throughout the entire full length mission?

Were the CO2 scrubbers passive devices waiting for air to just waft over them, or was air circulated through them?

What air pressure was Apollo 13 operating at? Would this have any bearing on CO2 production, particularly with reference to your 1 Kg a day production figure?

 

[Loss Leader]

It is a joke Loss Leader

Haha. That's not what you said. You're lying about something you said just a couple hours ago.

Then again, the "funny thing", to quote Bart, is that the two of us, Surfing Pat and Dufus Bart, made more progress with regard to elucidating the Apollo Story, the real story, than had heretofore all the professional historians and NASA archivists combined.

That's not what you said. You're lying when you try to pretend that this has been your point at any time until now.

Anyhoo, give the ventilation issue a careful look Loss Leader.

You're trying to change the subject to avoid the fact that you've been caught in yet another lie.

See you all in court.......

No, you won't. However grand and important you wish to pretend your writings to be, you have not raised one single issue that would be grounds for any sort of court action. Every single thing you've said on this subject has been legally meaningless. And the entire system will go on without having taken any notice of your complaints at all.

 

[Erock]

It is a joke Loss Leader, Geee, lighten up.....

No, it was a lie. Your bluff was called and you crumbled for a change. Normally you just ignore it when you are caught!

A professional level historian is the last thing I am

Just for s&g, I think I ought to quote one of your more accurate statements

Anyhoo, give the ventilation issue a careful look Loss Leader. It would seem, barring God's knows what, this'll be it, THE END. THE DEATH OF APOLLO AS REAL MANNED MOON LANDING PROGRAM AND IT'S FULL ON FULL FLEDGED START AS A PUBLICLY ACKNOWLEDGED FULL ON MILITARY MISSION WASTE OF TAX PAYER DOUGH.

I have a suggestion as to the "God's(sic) knows what" aspect. Barring the fact that you are clueless and proper engineers can easily refute your blustering perhaps?

Your posturing over your laughable film making abilities and all your other supreme skills is tedious in the extreme, your writing is puerile and childish and your cowardice in not facing the people you accuse is breathtaking.

Afraid much? Want to stay in the safety of anonimity via email?

You're a hopeless case Pat, maybe you need to see someone, Jay can introduce you to Dr. Charles Berry

 

[R.A.F.]

My guess is it's because you are lying.

At this point in the "conversation", do you really have to "guess" at his motives?

 

[R.A.F.]

My Accusations Are Very Well Supported...

You, yourself, know this not to be true, so just who do you think you are fooling with this misplaced bravado?


Certainly no one here...

 

[JayUtah]

It is a joke Loss Leader, Geee, lighten up...

No, you're trying to shame your critics away from calling you on more of your nonsense. You brag big about having "your lawyers" investigate Aldrin and Sibrel, saying that you'll take them down at all costs. In other words, you talk big as usual. Then when your bluff is called, it's all of a sudden a ha-ha joke.

How dumb do you think we are?

A professional level historian is the last thing I am or BART SIBREL is. We are both as far from the world of erudite historical academia as one can get.

Straw man. You're not any kind of historian.

...made more progress with regard to elucidating the Apollo Story, the real story, than had heretofore all the professional historians and NASA archivists combined.

Nonsense. Eight months ago you were an anonymous blowhard wielding sock puppets and getting banned from forums for your egregiously childish behavior. Nothing has changed. Nothing you've done, said, or pretended in the past eight months has had a single effect in the real world.

Anyhoo, give the ventilation issue a careful look Loss Leader.

What issue? Your assumption that the LM's cabin air circulation fans were switched off? That's old news. You assume wrong. You go to absurd lengths to document CO2 expiration and O2 inspiration, but you simply failed to look up the most important point in your claim: whether the fans were working.

Really, Patrick. We get tired of holding your hand.

...AS A PUBLICLY ACKNOWLEDGED FULL ON MILITARY MISSION WASTE OF TAX PAYER DOUGH.

Since when has national defense been considered a waste of taxpayer money? Loss Leader asked you about this before, and you roundly evaded him. You can't claim a "waste" of taxpayer money for

We can make them appear publicly...

[melodrama snipped]

Wow, you really loathe and despite those people, don't you? Would it be fair to say that such hatred and resentment is what drives you?

Perhaps given my level of expertise...

What expertise, exactly? You have none. You will not demonstrate any. Hence you will not be allowed to testify as an expert.

See you all in court...

I thought your threat of legal action was just a joke?

 

[Patrick1000]

Enclosed artificial atmospheres; subs, airplanes, diving bells, space capsules......

How was CO2 removed before the accident?

How was CO2 removed in all the other missions?

Did Apollo 13 take enough equipment to scrub CO2 throughout the entire full length mission?

Were the CO2 scrubbers passive devices waiting for air to just waft over them, or was air circulated through them?

What air pressure was Apollo 13 operating at? Would this have any bearing on CO2 production, particularly with reference to your 1 Kg a day production figure?

Enclosed artificial atmospheres; subs, airplanes, diving bells, space capsules all require "treatment". The level of sophistication treatment wise is variable. Engineers, environmental specialists consider O2 adequacy and regulation(of concentration), CO2 removal/scrubbing, humidification/dehumidification, temperature regulation.

So far, I have found good information on the Space shutte with regard to atmosphere treatment specifics. Not so good with regard to Apollo so far. Not that it is not there, but I have been running into some conflicting data. The details are presented differently depending on the publication/context of the writing.

Anyway, I'll report back on details of all relevant systems as I crowded: uncover them, subs, airplanes, mercury/Gemini/Apollo/Shuttle/Space Labs/Space Stations, diving bells. SCUBA details are probably worth looking at as well. I do some of that, so it is familiar and a great reference point.

Regardless as to what any of us turn up details wise regarding the energetics of this, and specifically, here one is concerned with the energy required to scrub an environment of CO2 both in a generic sense, and with regard to the Apollo system specifically. How much energy is required/was required/would be required to push the combined CM/Lander "atmosphere" through a scrubbing system for three and one half days?

Apollo 13 allegedly employed a conventional Lithium Hydroxide based scrubbing system;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_hydroxide#Carbon_dioxide_scrubbing

The reaction is thermodynamically favorable, the scrubbing reaction yielding Lithium carbonate and water. So the "problem" with the energetics of such a system is not the reaction per se. The reaction will proceed without a hitch. The "problem" has to do with bringing the reactants together.

Consider the Apollo 13 scenario as conventionally presented. We are asked to believe that the modified Lithium Hydroxide containing canisters will somehow suck the CO2 in, or the CO2 will simply diffuse into the canister and combine with Lithium hydroxide to give trapped lithium carbonate. This cannot occur. 23 pounds of carbon dioxide would have been generated by the astronauts over those 3 and one half days, and that carbon dioxide would require ACTIVE MOVEMENT THROUGH THE SCRUBBING SYSTEM TO BE REMOVED.

This is an absolute requirement. Over the next several days I'll be looking at the details of the Apollo system, the environmental ENERGY REQUIRING SYSTEM that allegedly did this. I am sure that most of the others on this forum following the thread will be doing the same. As should be obvious to all, it appears this will be the PROBLEM THAT APOLLO AS WE KNEW IT CANNOT SOLVE. There was no where near the energy available, as energy was alleged to be available in the mainstream telling of the Apollo 13 tale, adequate to to run the system. Mainstream Apollo 13 historians present the situation as one in which the environmental system is NOT RUNNING for the most part.

I would imagine everyone's energy will turn now to this subject, again, to emphasize, this problem will in all likelihood result in AN ULTIMATE AND GENUINE DEMISE FOR APOLLO.

I'll share details as I turn them up threadworm regarding the Apollo system. I'll wait until I find something that seems "dependable". As mentioned, there is a bit of a differing of opinions problem regarding the details of the system, at least in terms of what I have read so far. That said, there is no question that the alleged relevant system was alleged to have not been running during the Apollo 13 mission after the explosion, except initially of course, while there was still power. As such, the alleged air was NOT SCRUBBED and APOLLO 13 CAN NOW BE DECLARED FULL ON BONA FIDE FLAT OUT FOR SURE FOR TRUE FRO REAL FOR NO AVAILABLE WIGGLE ROOM IN THE 500 SQUARE FOOT PHONY CABIN AND NO WAY OUT NOW FOR THE PERPS FRAUDULENT.

 

[JayUtah]

I finally put the phony cowards out of their pain.

You keep speaking in past tense as if you've accomplished something. None of your shenanigans has yet to rise to a point where the real world has even begun to pay attention. You're not relevant, Patrick. I've given you the opportunity to face these "phony cowards" in person, but you refuse. You're nothing more than hot air.

The Apollo 13 Mission was an impossibility Jay. They forgot to provide enough energy in their silly script to run the ventilator.

I missed where you proved this.

See ya' in NEWSWEEK Jay...

I've already been there, as well as in the New York Times, Science, and on the major scientific and historical television networks worldwide. Unlike you, I am relevant in the real world.

When you're willing to come out of hiding, then you can claim to be bigger than [deity]. Until then, you're an anonymous blowhard in a chat room, and your arguments are as credible as that origin would suggest.

 

[Patrick1000]

Gee Loss Leader, do I have to spell everything out for you...,..

Haha. That's not what you said. You're lying about something you said just a couple hours ago.





That's not what you said. You're lying when you try to pretend that this has been your point at any time until now.





You're trying to change the subject to avoid the fact that you've been caught in yet another lie.





No, you won't. However grand and important you wish to pretend your writings to be, you have not raised one single issue that would be grounds for any sort of court action. Every single thing you've said on this subject has been legally meaningless. And the entire system will go on without having taken any notice of your complaints at all.

Gee Loss Leader, do I have to spell everything out for you...,??????.....

The thread is self referential SATIRE, albeit the most serious satire ever penned given the stakes.

Of course I am a great historian, albeit ironically so, given my preApollo passions. Nevertheless, it is I, not Sibrel, and not the mainstreamers who has told the Apollo tale, revealed its truth.

Unlikely though it may be, it is true. I am the greatest Apollo researcher of all time. The greatest Apollo writer of all time. AND!!!!, as an investigative journalist, I am the greatest talent of such an ilk writing for the last century.

Method/motive/means/PERP list, the first to achieve this. It is indeed historic. EPIC..........

I suggest you take a look at the ventilation problem by the way. PM your colleagues as regards its significance.

Apollo is over Loss Leader, and yes, all kidding aside, I am an historian, a great one. I am an investigative journalist, the greatest the last century has ever seen. The proof is in the pudding and in the TANG....Which by the way, is now proven with unmitigated metaphysical certitude, to have been spiked with LIES.

 

[Loss Leader]

The thread is self referential SATIRE

So, may I assume I have your permission to move this thread to Humor?

 

[realpaladin]

Looks like fun, then again, the party is over. The ventilation thing pretty much wraps this up.........

Still, if Lovell wants to vidi debate me on Apollo 13, If Kranz is game, Aaron too, I am game, for ol' times' sake, why not......That said, looks like I'll be able to get back to my surfing........Do you surf realpaladin?

I am a dutchman... not a lot of waves to be surfed over here... but windsurfing when the weather is good for it. Iceskating though... now *that* is a thing for men

But back to the game at hand...

Do I read this as:

1) Yes. But try to get the Apollo 13 guys first.
2) No. I mentioned the others to cover the fact that I don't really want to.
3) Yes, even if it is just the guys that JayUtah can provide.
4) No, surfs up and my steroids need an outlet.
5) Yes, I don't care who tries to challenge me. Bring it.
6) Other...

?

 

[JayUtah]

Anyway, I'll report back on details of all relevant systems as I uncover them...

But you already drew your conclusion. So once again you admit having stated your desired belief first, without having first surveyed the science. This is why no one pays you any attention. That approach gets you laughed out of the real world. You're clearly (and admittedly) incompetent as a chemist, and you're clearly (and admittedly) incompetent as an engineer. Put simply: why does your opinion matter?

This is an absolute requirement.

Yes. No one has ever claimed anything different. That's why the crews kept the circulating fans going in the LM.

On the one hand you say:

Over the next several days I'll be looking at the details of the Apollo system, the environmental ENERGY REQUIRING SYSTEM that allegedly did this.

Then on the other hand you say:

There was no where near the energy available...

In other words, you admit you don't have the information yet, but you have already made up your mind. Bah! Humbug!

Mainstream Apollo 13 historians present the situation as one in which the environmental system is NOT RUNNING for the most part.

[citation required]

...will in all likelihood result in AN ULTIMATE AND GENUINE DEMISE FOR APOLLO.

No, as usual it will result in your feeble attempt to blunder through power-consumption computations using layman's intuition, or a backpedaling avoidance of them altogether, or a handwaving mashup of Wikipedia entries vaguely discussing the problem wtihout providing an answer.

We've seen you try to prove technical claims before. You can't. You simply don't have the knowledge.

That said, there is no question that the alleged relevant system was alleged to have not been running during the Apollo 13 mission after the explosion, except initially of course, while there was still power.

You still haven't figured out that the LM had its own ECS, have you?

{facepalm}

 

[JayUtah]

I am the greatest Apollo researcher of all time. The greatest Apollo writer of all time. AND!!!!, as an investigative journalist, I am the greatest talent of such an ilk writing for the last century.

This gets my vote for moving the thread to humor.

Method/motive/means/PERP list, the first to achieve this.

No, all that was accomplished by Bill Kaysing back in the 1970s. He actually did better than you because he tried to explain all the evidence categories, not just a few. Your theory still has huge gaping holes in it regarding the physical evidence you cannot explain away. You're not even close to approaching any of the other conspiracy theorists. And they at least have the intestinal fortitude to write under their real identities.

As far as the world is concerned, you're just words on a screen in a few special-interest web forums. You don't even rise to the level of respect in that milieu. You are simply irrelevant.

I suggest you take a look at the ventilation problem by the way.

You clearly haven't.

 

[Erock]

Of course I am a great historian, albeit ironically so, given my preApollo passions.

No, really you are not.

Nevertheless, it is I, not Sibrel, and not the mainstreamers who has told the Apollo tale, revealed its truth.

No, really you haven't. Neither has Sibrel.

Unlikely though it may be, it is true.

No, it isn't.

I am the greatest Apollo researcher of all time.

No, really you aren't.

The greatest Apollo writer of all time.

No, really you aren't.

AND!!!!, as an investigative journalist, I am the greatest talent of such an ilk writing for the last century.

No, really you aren't.

Method/motive/means/PERP list, the first to achieve this. It is indeed historic. EPIC..........

No, it really isn't.

I suggest you take a look at the ventilation problem by the way. PM your colleagues as regards its significance.

The problem lies with your inability to read and understand.

Apollo is over Loss Leader, and yes, all kidding aside, I am an historian, a great one.

No, really you aren't.

I am an investigative journalist, the greatest the last century has ever seen.

No, really you aren't.

The proof is in the pudding and in the TANG....Which by the way, is now proven with unmitigated metaphysical certitude, to have been spiked with LIES.

No, really it hasn't.


What utter dumbfounding trolling arrogance - not a shred of credence to anything you write, with so many glaring errors per post it numbs the mind

This thread will be used against you at future dates, to show anybody interested, quite how delusional you are.

 

[Garrison]

What is this BULL about me failing to face those I accuse...

Since your side continues to bring it up, I shall continue to remind you all that both Aldrin and Armstrong received long letters from me last May(2011) EXPLICITLY DETAILING MY CHARGES AGAINST THEM AND IMPORTANTLY, INVITING THEM TO ENGAGE ME IN COMMUNICATION/DEBATE. They are the cowards, and GRAND COWARDS they are indeed. It is beyond pathetic.

Patrick1000 given your credibility here your statement that you sent such letters is simply not good enough without corroboration. As has also been pointed out even if you did send such letters the likelihood that they were passed to Aldrin or Armstrong is remote. You've been offered the opportunity to remove all ambiguity, to meet those you accuse face to face so there can be no doubt that they have heard what you have to say, why won't you take it?

Don't BLUFF ME Garrison! Look at this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53iSQ...vcbHsLPqKbJV_z

the Life magazine article from January 17 1969. Tell us all Garrison why Borman took seconal INTENTIONALLY a SECOND TIME in order to intentionally make himself sick again. Give us a reason as to why this sorry heiny excuse for an American lied like this other than his covering up Apollo's inauthenticity.

A question that's already been answered a dozen times, and has no relevance to any of the points I raised. Do you actually read any of the posts you quote?

Do you honestly think I am gonna' stop investigating this and discovering things?

Do you mean discovering things like Julian Co-ordinates?

Do you honestly think this is gonna' go away?

Your obsessive posting of nonsense about Apollo? Probably not.

Do you honestly think this bogus phony pathetic anemic charade is gonna' last ten more years with me hammering at it?

Given the quality of your work it could last a 1000 years if it were a sham, which of course it isn't.

Go ahead Garrison, tell us all why Borman took seconal A SECOND TIME. TELL US!!!!

Patrick you aren't part of any 'us'. In 200 pages you haven't convinced one person here that you know what you are talking about, think about the scale of that failure.

That PERP, he is toast big time. I hope it is rather obvious, should be by now that I am just getting warmed up. Oh I am so scared, such talented writers like Kluger on the PERP side. I'll mop the floor with that pathetic rookie's heiny as well. He couldn't write for my high school newspaper.

Again you've been given the opportunity to face those you are so eager to accuse, you haven't taken it. Ramping up the rhetoric is not going to disguise that.

All the facts are on my side, and I write better, 50 times better than Harland and Kluger, write better, a hundred times better than the two of those jokers put together, and not a one from your side has ANY talent with film. This thing is gonna' blow up in Armstrong's face within 2 years, you mark my words, read them too, and vidi my films. Toast they are TOAST!!!!!.

Which facts? That you have medical qualifications? That said qualifications were made up for 'satire'? That you own a bike shop? That you plagiarized the works of the likes of Fattydash? or that you are Fattydash while claiming you don't use sockpuppets? Please tell us which set of 'facts' is the real one. The rest of your post is just more bluster and hysterics so I'll just cut it.

 

[Patrick1000]

Problem with the video link hopefully corrected....

What is this BULL about me failing to face those I accuse...

Since your side continues to bring it up, I shall continue to remind you all that both Aldrin and Armstrong received long letters from me last May(2011) EXPLICITLY DETAILING MY CHARGES AGAINST THEM AND IMPORTANTLY, INVITING THEM TO ENGAGE ME IN COMMUNICATION/DEBATE. They are the cowards, and GRAND COWARDS they are indeed. It is beyond pathetic.

Don't BLUFF ME Garrison! Look at this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53iSQ...vcbHsLPqKbJV_z

the Life magazine article from January 17 1969. Tell us all Garrison why Borman took seconal INTENTIONALLY a SECOND TIME in order to intentionally make himself sick again. Give us a reason as to why this sorry heiny excuse for an American lied like this other than his covering up Apollo's inauthenticity.

Do you honestly think I am gonna' stop investigating this and discovering things?

Do you honestly think this is gonna' go away?

Do you honestly think this bogus phony pathetic anemic charade is gonna' last ten more years with me hammering at it?

Go ahead Garrison, tell us all why Borman took seconal A SECOND TIME. TELL US!!!!

That PERP, he is toast big time. I hope it is rather obvious, should be by now that I am just getting warmed up. Oh I am so scared, such talented writers like Kluger on the PERP side. I'll mop the floor with that pathetic rookie's heiny as well. He couldn't write for my high school newspaper.

All the facts are on my side, and I write better, 50 times better than Harland and Kluger, write better, a hundred times better than the two of those jokers put together, and not a one from your side has ANY talent with film. This thing is gonna' blow up in Armstrong's face within 2 years, you mark my words, read them too, and vidi my films. Toast they are TOAST!!!!!.

Your photos are fake, the Apollo photos are fake. I have proven they are. It is done, mission accomplished, roger roger roger that, over and OUT! If you can tell us all why Borman likes to pop seconal in outer space so as to poop and puke on his friends, maybe the point would be worth reconsidering, but as far as any rational person can see, phony Borman vomit and diarrhea in this setting, such a cute account in Life magazine wouldn't you say? , that 'bout roasts Borman right there and equates with FAKE PHOTOS.

But I ain't finished with that pathetic embarrassment Borman yet, not by a longshot. Wait 'til he gets my letter and my first little movie all about him. that'll make him poop something fierce, not kidding......

Problem with the video link hopefully corrected....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53iSQC3-45M

 

[Jack by the hedge]

It's a step too far. Not even Patrick could genuinely believe that nobody has ever analysed how the Apollo 13 crew managed to filter the cabin's atmosphere following the accident. He must know this gambit is yet another dead end. Even if the only Apollo 13 'research' he ever did was watch the movie, he would know he's on a hiding to nothing again.

He's just trying to provoke a reaction, and I think I'm done with this nonsense.

 

[Patrick1000]

Good Ol' Boy Tells Us About Toilets In Space.....

This is more than worth a vidi, as are all of the videos in this MIT Series On the Space Shuttle...... Gives one an Idea as to what a spaceship really is, and of course in so doing, helps one to learn/understand that the Apollo craft were no spaceships............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IJPugWssVs&feature=related

 

[frenat]

The video is in sych, look at Aldrin's mouth.......If Sibrel did the bad dubbing, why in the world would he put the punch sound before the thief sound.....? Anyway, no huge deal here........

Given my work, I am rather embarrassed it took me this long to "notice" their gaffe with regard to the ventilation problem. It should be fairly easy to end this silly thing now. As I recall, they said the only things they ran on the ship was the radio and a few little gadgets. They did not have the environmental control system engaged.

Should be able to put this baby to bed by the end of the day with or without Bart Sibrel's help.

Where did I say anything about it being out of snych? Can you prove that Sibrel or somebody else did not add the sound of the punch in later? If not then you have NOTHING.

 

[SUSpilot]

You still haven't figured out that the LM had its own ECS, have you?

{facepalm}

Dang!! I was all set to point this out when I saw Jay's last point.

Patrick, give it up already. I claim no expertise in engineering or medicine. However, I know for a fact that I have nearly off the chart logic and objectivity scores on standardized tests, so I recognize when an argument fails. Your whole scenario collapsed under its own weight months ago - there is no combination of events that allow for the conclusions you are trying to draw. Actually, I should say that there is no way to bend the known, documented facts to fit the conclusions that you have made.

Now, because I'm fair-minded, I will give you another chance to answer the following:

• Does PTFE burn in a supercritical oxygen environment?
• Will you be brave enough to face those you accuse? (To be fair, that's a restatement of the question, as an anonymous video forum has been suggested.)
• Will you ever answer Jay's questions regarding process photography/videography?
• And a new question: is this all because you weren't happy that you didn't get concusive answers on a couple of fora (forums?)regarding the visibility of stars in cislunar space?