Richard Gage Blueprint for Truth Rebuttals on YouTube by Chris Mohr

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How could WTC7 be a traditional CD if any later portion of the fall is less than freefall acceleration? Why don't we hear the signature, rhythmic "bang bang bang bang" in the seconds prior to the fall and as the fall begins?

I ask these questions because you seem to be one of the few Truthers still hung up on traditional CD as the method the WTC towers were brought down (and if you're not, I apologize, as you seem to be arguing points as though you did believe it).

Maybe you can explain the method by which you think they were brought down?
Sharpening this point: if you assume only two forces, gravity and resistance, neither controlled demolition nor natural collapse makes any sense because it seems there would always be at least SOME resistance even in a column-buckling scenario as proposed by NIST. And SOME resistance from nonstructural elements even if there is a CD involved. We know that CD's are usually at markedly less than freefall because they usually let gravity do much of the work once the collapse is underway. Generally, if the building is falling close to freefall, it would be at the beginning to maximize gravitational momentum, not the middle as in Building 7.

So maybe there were other forces involved besides gravity and structural resistance in the collapse of Building 7. Let's not just take Richard Gage at his word when he posits only two forces at work in a complex building collapse. That's what threw me off track for months. And that's what I explain in my YouTube video #18 (keyword chrismohr911).
 
Sharpening this point: if you assume only two forces, gravity and resistance, neither controlled demolition nor natural collapse makes any sense because it seems there would always be at least SOME resistance even in a column-buckling scenario as proposed by NIST. And SOME resistance from nonstructural elements even if there is a CD involved. We know that CD's are usually at markedly less than freefall because they usually let gravity do much of the work once the collapse is underway. Generally, if the building is falling close to freefall, it would be at the beginning to maximize gravitational momentum, not the middle as in Building 7.

So maybe there were other forces involved besides gravity and structural resistance in the collapse of Building 7. Let's not just take Richard Gage at his word when he posits only two forces at work in a complex building collapse. That's what threw me off track for months. And that's what I explain in my YouTube video #18 (keyword chrismohr911).

Unfortunately your YouTube videos fall far short of scientifically reasonable explanation, something David Chandler and I attribute to your lack of a science background; but they excel at regurgitating the explanations provided by Official Story supporters.

They say "ignorance is bliss" and your so-called 'videos' which are little more than reading-to-the-camera from a prepared script, show as much understanding of the content as the nightly news readers.

MM
 
Unfortunately your YouTube videos fall far short of scientifically reasonable explanation, something David Chandler (A HS Science teacher) and I (Who has no scientific training WHATSOEVER) attribute to your lack of a science background; but they excel at regurgitating the explanations provided by Official Story supporters, engineers, architects, fire science engineers, veteran firefighters, structural engineers, and others trained in relevant fields, who are vastly more educated that David and I.

MM


There, I fixed your post for you.
 
Unfortunately your YouTube videos fall far short of scientifically reasonable explanation, something David Chandler and I attribute to your lack of a science background; but they excel at regurgitating the explanations provided by Official Story supporters.

They say "ignorance is bliss" and your so-called 'videos' which are little more than reading-to-the-camera from a prepared script, show as much understanding of the content as the nightly news readers.

MM
And you can do this to Chris because of your stellar higher education, and David Chandler's brilliant high-school physics work?

Hmmmmm
 
Chris7,

You asked, "BTW: Why did you remove Rich Lee's letter from your #9 video?"

The Rich Lee microspheres letter was added to the verbal "Description" section of the YouTube video 9 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev48qEO9SyU and then a reference to this was prominently posted at the beginning of the video, as soon as I start talking. Sorry, I don't understand your question.
I used the URL you gave in post 3490:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MER5PhIDt0

ETC: That's the URL to Part 18, not Part 9.
I Googled: Chris Mohr,microspheres - and got the old version:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=931_1328553613

It does not have the reference to Rich Lee but the one you just posted does, thank you.

My response is Here
 
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Hi Chris7,
Briefly,
I didn't make up "no net resistance." I reported the results of my research.
I said there may have been moments faster than freefall but always acknowledge we are within the margin of error of freefall measurement. I bring up that possibility because my no-net-resistance explanation would explain such a phenomenon and CD alone can't.
The no-net-resistance cannot apply during free fall acceleration nor can the acceleration be anything other than gravitational acceleration during the 100 feet of free fall. You quote Mr. Chandler saying that in a body in free fall, there are no internal forces but you don't understand what that means.

If you continue to assert that the buiilding came down 100% vertical as a single unit with no turning or lateral motion of any kind, you are ignoring the pictures
You don't seem to understand that free fall is always straight down. The building started to fall to one side after the 100 feet of free fall and hit resistance.

Free fall acceleration for about 100 feet is the one thing the 9/11 researchers and NIST agree on. So why do you dispute it?

the building collapsed (to a gross order) as a unit for the first few seconds." And then you say I'M the one ignoring the facts
You are ignoring the fact that the moment frames, a steel belt all the way around the building on every floor, would not allow any other side to fall faster or slower than the two spots measured on the north face.

I've said before that maybe it's unclear, but when I talked of "part of the north face" I meant "the north face came down at approximately freefall for part of the time it was collapsing
That is pure denial. It was not "approximately" free fall, the upper portion fell AT free fall acceleration for about 100 feet. NIST measured it as close ad it could me measured and the difference was less than 1% or 0.08 seconds. That is absolute free fall acceleration, not approximately.

(9.81 m/s2), equivalent to the acceleration of gravity g."

The acceleration of gravity for New York City is 9.802 m/s2
 
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Chris do you know what the word approximately means? But then again you are the same people who think straight down is across the street and symmetrical means if you ignore anything thats inconvenient..
 
The no-net-resistance cannot apply during free fall acceleration nor can the acceleration be anything other than gravitational acceleration during the 100 feet of free fall. You quote Mr. Chandler saying that in a body in free fall, there are no internal forces but you don't understand what that means.

You don't seem to understand that free fall is always straight down. The building started to fall to one side after the 100 feet of free fall and hit resistance.

Free fall acceleration for about 100 feet is the one thing the 9/11 researchers and NIST agree on. So why do you dispute it?

You are ignoring the fact that the moment frames, a steel belt all the way around the building on every floor, would not allow any other side to fall faster or slower than the two spots measured on the north face.

That is pure denial. It was not "approximately" free fall, the upper portion fell AT free fall acceleration for about 100 feet. NIST measured it as close ad it could me measured and the difference was less than 1% or 0.08 seconds. That is absolute free fall acceleration, not approximately.

(9.81 m/s2), equivalent to the acceleration of gravity g."

The acceleration of gravity for New York City is 9.802 m/s2
Wrong C7. The rate of free-fall acceleration can be attained by 1) an object falling with no resistance, as you and Chandler think is the ONLY way or 2) with no NET resistance, where multiple forces act against each other and cancel each other out, a possibility which you and Chandler don't allow for. And freefall is not always straight down. If I shoot a cannonball, it is traveling mostly horizontally but still dropping at freefall acceleration (minus air resistance). You continue to ignore Tri's photos which show Building 7 leaning just as it is beginning to collapse. Steel belt or no, we have proof that the building did not fall at 100.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000% of freefall and not 100.000000000000000000000000000000000000000% straight down. We have no proof of any precise rate of descent except that of the roofline of the north perimeter face, which came down at 100% + or - a small amount for 2.25 seconds after starting its collapse beginning at much less than freefall. Since the top of the building is observed by the eye to have fallen "as a unit," there may have been slight variations where greater resistance in one part of the building connected to the north face may have had a fulcrum and a pivot, which is diagrammed in my video 18. Having a CD where collapse begins slowly and gradually builds up to freefall makes no sense. Had it been a CD going at freefall at any point, it should have been at the beginning to maximize gravitational momentum in the building's destruction.
If anyone in addition to C7 or MM wants to correct any of these observations, please do so. Tri? Shek? Oystein? You know me; I'll make corrections when I'm shown to be wrong.
 
Unfortunately your YouTube videos fall far short of scientifically reasonable explanation, something David Chandler and I attribute to your lack of a science background; but they excel at regurgitating the explanations provided by Official Story supporters.

They say "ignorance is bliss" and your so-called 'videos' which are little more than reading-to-the-camera from a prepared script, show as much understanding of the content as the nightly news readers.

MM
And yet you say absolutely nothing about the scientific and factual content of the post you are ostensibly responding to.

Remember, Richard Gage thought that cardboard boxes were representative of the behavior of two 110-story skyscrapers. I do not think he has ever admitted he was wrong, but that video, curiously, was not on AE911T's Youtube account the last time I checked.
 
....
Since the top of the building is observed by the eye to have fallen "as a unit," there may have been slight variations where greater resistance in one part of the building connected to the north face may have had a fulcrum and a pivot, which is diagrammed in my video 18.
....

An interesting point (to me anyway, and possibly related to what you're saying here) is that in the early stages of what is called 'global collapse' (which is actually only the collapse of 3 exterior walls, as far as we can be sure) the West Mechanical Penthouse falls into the building faster than the main roofline is going down. i.e. it overtakes the N wall. And the EMP had already gone several seconds earlier.

I think that half the problems we have debating these things with C7, MM etc is that some of the NIST reports, from time to time, slip into imprecise language, thus allowing Truthers huge scope for nitpicking. [FONT="]

"The entire building above thebuckled-columnregion then moved downward in a single unit, as observed"[/FONT]
contains errors of fact, although we know precisely what is meant. It wasn't literally "the entire building". It wasn't literally "in a single unit", because large and vital parts of it had already fallen to oblivion within the walls before the walls themselves came down.
 
Wrong C7. The rate of free-fall acceleration can be attained by 1) an object falling with no resistance, as you and Chandler think is the ONLY way or 2) with no NET resistance, where multiple forces act against each other and cancel each other out, a possibility which you and Chandler don't allow for. And freefall is not always straight down....[Additional comments followed]
@chrismohr -- I see that I am not on the list of those invited to comment :) ... but here goes anyway.

Probably the central issue in understanding freefall accelerations and accelerations more than free fall is the need to identify the "free body" on which forces are acting. In other posts here and elsewhere I have used an alternative description of "sub-system boundary". I note that you used systems terminology as part of the explanation in your video #18. At that point you referred to an identification of a system by a truth movement supporter. That definition of system was wrong as you identified and your identification of the sub system under discussion is correct. (To guard against potential nit-pickers I make both those comments strictly in the context of what you were presenting.)

In a recent post C7 states:
The no-net-resistance cannot apply during free fall acceleration nor can the acceleration be anything other than gravitational acceleration during the 100 feet of free fall. You quote Mr. Chandler saying that in a body in free fall, there are no internal forces but you don't understand what that means...
In a recent post I quoted the highlighted portion drawing attention to the word "internal" and posted this terse comment:
Internal???

Did Chandler say that?
C7 has so far not answered that query of the alleged use of "internal" by Chandler.

If Chandler did make that statement he is wrong. Obviously wrong and at an elementary level of physics.

Let me illustrate two points by a simple example. I put you inside an enclosed box say one metre square and 1.8 metres high. As you stand in the box your head is in contact with the top and your feet naturally in contact with the bottom. (I need the head to top contact to eliminate some second order effects which may be raised by third party sceptics at a later stage -- if we get that far. ;) ) I give you a tennis ball which you hold in your right hand. I then drop the box including you and the ball from the top of a tall building.

The box with you and the ball inside it will enter free fall minus the effect of air resistance.
You inside the box throw the ball down so it travels to and strikes the floor.
Point One: Whilst you are engaged in the throwing motion which is accelerating the ball up to throwing speed the ball is accelerating downwards faster than free fall.
You extend you arms sideways and press on the side walls of the box.
Point Two: You have exerted internal forces despite the (alleged) Chandler claim that there are no internal forces.

Test Question for the lurkers: When you release the ball and whilst it is travelling downwards towards the bottom of the box what is its acceleration?

The box and contents comprises a discrete system. What happens inside that system has no effect on the motion of the system relative to its external context and the rapidly approaching ground below.

If anyone in addition to C7 or MM wants to correct any of these observations, please do so. Tri? Shek? Oystein? You know me; I'll make corrections when I'm shown to be wrong....
I have watched the video. Given that it was intended as one of a series intended for an audience of lay persons I think it does a good job. Sure there are one or two points where the physics pedant in me would suggest a different emphasis of explanation. But you could go for ever with nit picking fine tunings. I saw no significant errors in this first re-watching.
 
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...I think that half the problems we have debating these things with C7, MM etc is that some of the NIST reports, from time to time, slip into imprecise language, thus allowing Truthers huge scope for nitpicking.
Spot on.

We are engaged in "asymmetrical warfare". The trolls/truthers make statements which are mostly if not totally wrong. We respond and their counter attack is by nit picking.

So "they" can be 80-90-99% wrong. "we" (or NIST or any other authority) make a 1 or 2% error and that gets nit picked to death.

Asymmetric Warfare. :)
 
Chris Mohr says it was speeding up and slowing down during the 2.25 s of free fall. That is a result of his not understanding how the analysis works.

WTC 7 fell at free fall acceleration, not roughly. Even NIST admits that. Your attempts to deny it are rooted in your inability to accept this scientifically confirmed fact because of the implications.
C7,

Even you must surely realize that 2.25 seconds of freefall acceleration doesn't dictate that CD MUST have been employed. Dynamically, even as a non-engineering professional, I can comprehend that depending on what's going on at different stages of a natural collapse, it can accelerate and decelerate (and since what was happening internally was largely blocked from our view by the external cladding as the collapse began, NIST offered a hypothesis that fit the evidence).

Chris Mohr offered a different hypothesis that fit the evidence.

Where's your collapse hypothesis that fits the evidence?
 
C7,

.....

Where's your collapse hypothesis that fits the evidence?

He has stated it many times - "Only rapid and simultaneous removal of all support columns can explain the free-fall of WTC7" (I put this in quotes as a fair representation of his statements, rather than the exact words he used at any given time).

Except it doesn't "fit the evidence", it only appears, with twisted logic, to fit the small part of the evidence he chooses to cherry-pick.

He never got round to explaining what happened during the ~1.7 seconds of sub-g acceleration, nor many other terminally damning complications of his theory.
 
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He has stated it many times - "Only rapid and simultaneous removal of all support columns can explain the free-fall of WTC7" (I put this in quotes as a fair representation of his statements, rather than the exact words he used at any given time).

Except it doesn't "fit the evidence", only the small part of the evidence he chooses to cherry-pick.

He never got round to explaining what happened during the ~1.7 seconds of sub-g acceleration, nor many other terminally damning complications of his theory.
Well, if he's saying that then it's silly to talk to him about it, because he's assuming the conclusion (CD) before he even does any work to arrive there.

Has he presented any work to demonstrate that?

At all?
 
Well, if he's saying that then it's silly to talk to him about it, because he's assuming the conclusion (CD) before he even does any work to arrive there.

Has he presented any work to demonstrate that?

At all?

First, I slightly changed my post for the reason shown ;)

But, "work" ???? I suppose he "worked" at reading a Chandler blog or something. Beyond that, nah.
 
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