JFK Conspiracy Theories: It Never Ends

[Border Reiver]

There should be no cheering the mock conviction of a dead man who could not defend himself. There was another trial where there was no conviction (ABA).

He had a lawyer, and obviously elected not to testify, putting the prosecution to their burden of proving the matter beyond a reasonable doubt - you may wish to re-examine your doubts in light of this.

What trial - are you referring to any one of the countless criminal trials that occur each and every day where the accused is found "not guilty" or are you referring to one in particular?

 

[Robert Prey]

Of course the guilt of Oswald is the central, crucial question. If Oswald did it, and acted alone, then there is no conspiracy. If you want to get the conspiracy angle in, you need to post the evidence. Thus far you have failed miserably. But that is not my point here.

Recollect it was your point that the mock trial didn't address the issue of conspiracy. But I am asking how that would have been different if Oswald had lived. The mock trial tried to utilize as many real trial procedures (including calling actual witness) as practical for a television program.

My point is that neither the mock trial nor the real trial would have addressed the issue of conspiracy to any great extent.

You avoid addressing the real question you originally raised, instead preferring to discuss something else - Oswald's guilt or innocence, which wasn't the point of the original post I responded to:

If Oswald had lived, he would have soon been aware that his associates with the CIA, the Mafia and the FBI were not his friends, and he would have had additional information to prove his innocence.

 

[Robert Prey]

Yep, you're flip-flopping all over the boat, Robert. Maybe it would be best if you were back in the water.

You're not asserting that the memo is authentic now, but you asserted it previously. You cited the March 3, 1964 memo in response to a question about which of the various associations you previously alleged you could PROVE.

If you're not asserting it's authentic, why did you cite when asked for PROOF?

As far as you or I or anyone would know, that March memo may indeed be authentic. Certainly looks authentic.

 

[TheRedWorm]

Ok. Time for me to come clean. I was there that day. I was in the TSBD and watched on in horror as LHO shot and killed the president. He then got up and quickly walked down the stairs. So, I think we can safely close this thread now, as we have an eyewitness (me) observing LHO murder JFK.

 

[Robert Prey]

You have this exactly bass-ackwards, Robert.

You assert the existence of a conspiracy, not I.

I have no clue there was a conspiracy, period, let alone any evidence when they started it.

It is you who needs to put into evidence the existence of planning prior to Oswald purchasing the rifle, otherwise you are just assuming what you need to prove.

I'll say it again: At the time Oswald purchased the rifle, he wasn't working in the Depository, no Presidential trip to Dallas was planned, no Presidential motorcade through Dallas was planned, and certainly no motorcade past the building that Oswald didn't even work at yet was planned.

Therefore, the evidence indicates Oswald purchased that rifle for some other purpose, most likely for his attempt on the life of General Edwin Walker that took place on April 10th.

If you have any evidence of a conspiracy prior to that, please put it into evidence now. Or just admit you are assuming what you need to prove.

I'll be good with either approach.

But merely asserting the planning started before Oswald bought the rifle doesn't fly here.

Hank

Oh, I have a mountain of irrefutable evidence that it was indeed a conspiracy, just by the 40 plus on scene witnesses who observed a large blow-out in the back of the head. That being the case, it doesn't take a Sherlock Holmes to deduce that this conspiracy took a whole lot of in advance planning, and some evidence that it began at the very time Oswald bought the weapon.

 

[Robert Prey]

You previously claimed there was no further investigation.

Flip-flopping again, Robert.

Now you're claiming there was investigation, but LBJ controlled the WC with Hoover and Earl Warren (!).

Yeah, LBJ appointed three Republicans, three Democrats, and a Supreme Court Justice because he wanted to control the Commission.

Note you ignored all the other investigations you said didn't happen either.
Did LBJ control the DPD investigation? The Church Committee? The HSCA?

You said all investigation ended with the death of Oswald. Now you are changing your story.

Again.

Hank

WC commission investigation was not an investigation but a Whitewash as was the HSCA "investigation."

 

[Robert Prey]

What's the first paragraph say, Robert? Why don't you ever quote that?

"It is important that all of the facts surrounding President Kennedy's Assassination be made public in a way which will satisfy people in the United States and abroad that all the facts have been told and that a statement to this effect be made now."

The rest of the Katzenbach memo is written with that in mind, and is written based on the information available to Katzenbach at the time, that Oswald was the assassin, he did it alone, and there was no conspiracy.

This was covered previously. You are just taking stuff out of context. And changing the subject to boot, because you're finding the CIA angle not fruitful enough.

Hank

Your explanation for the K memo is not an explanation for it, but an indictment of it and the evidence for the intended cover-up.

 

[HSienzant]

So in your biased opinion, either Liebler was lying or Odio was lying. And Katzenbach and Hoover? They were lying too?

First of all, it's Liebeler. Second of all, the context is buried in the site you cited. I had to dig for it, while the one misleading sentence is ripped out of context and highlighted. Why is that, do you suppose?

Here, let's put it back into context again, so you can ignore the context once more:
"... he [Liebeler] said to this other gentleman, I don't remember his name, he said, "Well, you know if we do find out that this is a conspiracy you know that we have orders from Chief Justice Warren to cover this thing up." (I asked: Liebeler said that?) "Yes, sir, I could swear on that." At the time, she said she thought that maybe it was a bait for her because she had the feeling that they thought she was hiding something more, that she was involved with other Cuban groups perhaps or that she knew more than she was saying. "That was the feeling that I got by the time that they took me to dinner, that maybe if I had a few drinks and the conversation became very casual, I would go ahead and volunteer information he thought I was hiding ... If it was for my sake that he was saying that, it if it was a little game they were playing with me, I don't know..."

Again, in context, Liebeler was trying to uncover the truth, not hide it (assuming Odio's story - which has no verification - actually happened).

We already covered Katzenbach -- multiple times, in detail. The only lies about this is what I see in conspiracy books. They are trying to make a mountain of a molehill by zooming in close and losing focus. But when you look at that molehill in context, it's not such a big deal (it loses all conspiracy import). Please read the first paragraph again -- typically not reproduced in conspiracy books.

Haven't read the Hoover memo in detail, but since the wording is similar, I would say the same thing applies to Hoover's memo that applies to Katzenbach's.

 

[Robert Prey]

There is no documented association with the CIA. Working as a radar operator for the Marines isn't it. Otherwise you might as well claim he had a documented association with Japan Airlines, because he might have seen their planes on his radar screen as well.

Your claim that it's a documented association is the lie, not the McCone memo.

Hank

That LHO worked under ONI and tracked the CIA top secret U2 is confirmed by many sources including the 6th Floor Museum Director, Gary Mack.

 

[HSienzant]

Oh, I have a mountain of irrefutable evidence that it was indeed a conspiracy, just by the 40 plus on scene witnesses who observed a large blow-out in the back of the head. That being the case, it doesn't take a Sherlock Holmes to deduce that this conspiracy took a whole lot of in advance planning, and some evidence that it began at the very time Oswald bought the weapon.

lol. So you deduced it from the medical witnesses that are directly contradicted by the evidence like the autopsy, the autopsy x-rays, the Zapruder film, and the Moorman photo.

So you have no evidence it was planned that early, that is merely a deduction from eyewitness testimony on your part.

Thanks for that admission.

PS: Is Jenkins one of those forty? We've already covered how he put the large wound in the right side of his head in the statement you yourself quoted, not the back of the head. I truly hope for your sake Jenkins is not one of your forty miracle medical witnesses. If he is, any credibility you might have had will be gone, Robert.

Jenkins put the wound in the right side of the head. You need to live with this and move on.

Hank

 

[HSienzant]

That LHO worked under ONI and tracked the CIA top secret U2 is confirmed by many sources including the 6th Floor Museum Director, Gary Mack.

That's merely an appeal to authority.
So far you've cited a book by John Newman and now a noted conspiracist (who invented, with White, the Badge Man image with colored markers).

When are you going to cite something like - oh, i don't know - actual evidence?

What's that, you don't have any?

You already conceded the memo you cited was false. I guess you really are stuck now.

Hank

 

[HSienzant]

If Oswald had lived, he would have soon been aware that his associates with the CIA, the Mafia and the FBI were not his friends, and he would have had additional information to prove his innocence.

Loving it!

You are simply assuming what you need to prove, Robert.

Do you have any evidence to support these claims, or are you just going to keep repeating the same tired assertions over and over?

I would think getting arrested and arraigned for the assassination of the President would have clued him in that he was being framed, but you write it as if he hadn't realized that yet. How slow on the uptake was this guy, anyway?

Hank

 

[Robert Prey]

Loving it!

You are simply assuming what you need to prove, Robert.

Do you have any evidence to support these claims, or are you just going to keep repeating the same tired assertions over and over?

I would think getting arrested and arraigned for the assassination of the President would have clued him in that he was being framed, but you write it as if he hadn't realized that yet. How slow on the uptake was this guy, anyway?

Hank

What is it about the words "soon be aware" that you don't get?

 

[Robert Prey]

That's merely an appeal to authority.
So far you've cited a book by John Newman and now a noted conspiracist (who invented, with White, the Badge Man image with colored markers).

When are you going to cite something like - oh, i don't know - actual evidence?

What's that, you don't have any?

You already conceded the memo you cited was false. I guess you really are stuck now.

Hank

No. I have't conceded anything. And there is a mountain of info in Newmans' book citing Atsugi Commander John Donovan's testimony to the WC that validates the claim that LHO had a high security clearance, worked as a radar operator, tracked, and knew a whole lot about the U2. You supposedly read the book twice???

 

[Robert Prey]

lol. So you deduced it from the medical witnesses that are directly contradicted by the evidence like the autopsy, the autopsy x-rays, the Zapruder film, and the Moorman photo.

So you have no evidence it was planned that early, that is merely a deduction from eyewitness testimony on your part.

Thanks for that admission.

PS: Is Jenkins one of those forty? We've already covered how he put the large wound in the right side of his head in the statement you yourself quoted, not the back of the head. I truly hope for your sake Jenkins is not one of your forty miracle medical witnesses. If he is, any credibility you might have had will be gone, Robert.

Jenkins put the wound in the right side of the head. You need to live with this and move on.

Hank

With this last post, you are lowering yourself down to the level of the children who sometimes post their nonsense on this baord. All your fake autopsy photos and reports have been thoroughly discredited as has your Jenkins ploy.

 

[Robert Prey]

He had a lawyer, and obviously elected not to testify, putting the prosecution to their burden of proving the matter beyond a reasonable doubt - you may wish to re-examine your doubts in light of this.

What trial - are you referring to any one of the countless criminal trials that occur each and every day where the accused is found "not guilty" or are you referring to one in particular?

The ABA trail. You didn't know?

 

[Robert Prey]

Originally Posted by Robert Prey
Funny that this "loser" was chosen to track the top secret U2 spy plane. Use your head.

evidence?

"Oswald and the CIA" by John Newman

 

[TheRedWorm]

Ok. Time for me to come clean. I was there that day. I was in the TSBD and watched on in horror as LHO shot and killed the president. He then got up and quickly walked down the stairs. So, I think we can safely close this thread now, as we have an eyewitness (me) observing LHO murder JFK.

Robert, an eyewitness settles this particular debate.

 

[RoboTimbo]

the level of the children

I know what you mean.


Have you realized why you're getting

yet? It's because you're out of your league. Obviously. LOL.

 

[EventHorizon]

With this last post, you are lowering yourself down to the level of the children who sometimes post their nonsense on this baord. All your fake autopsy photos and reports have been thoroughly discredited as has your Jenkins ploy.

There's only one person in this thread posting childish nonsense. Obviously.