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JFK Conspiracy Theories: It Never Ends

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Yes it makes sense Robert, Oswald was trained by the CIA in his involvement in the conspiracy, they then told him to order a rifle by mail order.
Now I know some people are thick, but really, would the CIA sit down and tell someone so stupid that they were going to kill the president in the first place?

Yep, makes sense
Funny that this "loser" was chosen to track the top secret U2 spy plane.
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Clever enough to track a top secret plane but daft enough to buy his own gun that could be traced???

Something doesnt add up Robert.
 
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HSienzant said:
Robert will allege he was acting in the capacity of a CIA operative, or better yet, that Oswald wasn't involved at all.

Which brings up this point:

Hey Robert, if Oswald was just a patsy and this was a CIA action to assassinate the President (and let's grant that for the sake of argument),

1. Why would they sacrifice one of their own? Why didn't they find a poor schmuck to frame who previously didn't work for them?

2. If Oswald is just a patsy and not involved, why does his prior employment matter at all? How does Oswald's CIA employment back in the 1950's matter at all, if he is not a part of the conspiracy?

3. You do realize - as JargonBuster points out - that Oswald's CIA status or non-status doesn't advance your conspiracy argument one whit, especially if Oswald is just a patsy. Where the patsy worked or didn't work five or six years earlier has no bearing on the case.

Hank
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One question at a time. But the notion that a CIA designated Patsy would be considered "one of their own" is ludicrous. Equally ludicrous is the notion that CIA would never sacrifice one of their "own."
Whew! Talk about naivete!!!
 
HSienzant said:
He answered the questions he was asked.
Oswald had no connection to the CIA at any time.

You have yet to present any evidence otherwise.

Saying "Oswald / U2 / CIA" over and over isn't evidence.
.

Hank
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Oh, there's lots more. But CIA's U2 is the very Best Evidence, yet totally ignored by Mr. McCone as well as the Warren Report.
 
But the notion that a CIA designated Patsy would be considered "one of their own" is ludicrous. Equally ludicrous is the notion that CIA would never sacrifice one of their "own."
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Robert was he "one of their own" when he was in the U2 project or was he a patsy for that op as well?
 
jargon buster said:
With all due respect guys, Robert has you running in circles regards this CIA issue.
It doesnt matter if he was head of the CIA, he wasnt acting in the capacity of a CIA operative when he pulled the trigger, Im sure if Robert had some evidence that it was the case he would have posted it.
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He didn't pull the trigger.
 
Border Reiver said:
So now you're going to ignore all questions? Or provide non-responsive answers. No evidence has been adduced by you or anyone that LHO was involved with the U2, other than being stationed at the same base.
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Shortly thereafter, defects to USSR, and the U2 is shot down. Perhaps Oswald got a "Cryptic" security clearance (higher than Top Secret) so that he could work there to sweep floors.
 
Robert Prey said:
The murder of the trumped up Patsy most certainly did stop the investigation. Your argument is contrary to the facts.
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Hilarious, Robert. Your claim is contrary to the facts.

So you're claiming these investigations into the crime never took place?

The Warren Commission
The House Select Committee on Assassinations
The Garrison Investigation
The Church Committee
The FBI Investigation (most of the FBI investigation into the crime happened AFTER the shooting of Oswald).

The only one that was mostly wrapped up with the death of Oswald was the Dallas Police Department's (although even they conducted interviews and tracked down some local conspiracy allegations after the shooting of Oswald).

http://history-matters.com/archive/contents/contents_jfk.htm

Just as one example of a conspiracy allegation that was investigated AFTER the shooting, check out the Antonio Veciana allegations.

You are absolutely wrong too say the investigation stopped with the death of Oswald. Where ever did you get that idea?

Hank
 
Robert Prey said:
One question at a time. But the notion that a CIA designated Patsy would be considered "one of their own" is ludicrous. Equally ludicrous is the notion that CIA would never sacrifice one of their "own."
Whew! Talk about naivete!!!
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Your arguments don't make your own head spin and fall off?

If Oswald isn't considered one of the CIA's own, why did you even bring up Atsugi? You claimed he was working for the CIA repeatedly. Now he's not one of theirs. Make up your mind.

Don't you remember your arguments from day to day?

Robert Prey said:
... the U2 project was strictly CIA and LHO was a part of it.
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Robert Prey said:
Then who was he working for at the Atsugi Naval base tracking the top secret U2 spy planes sponsored by CIA? McDonalds??????
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Robert Prey said:
There is so much evidence of Oswald's connections to CIA that it took an entire book to document it all (Oswald and the CIA, by John Newman).
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Robert Prey said:
... If McCone swears that Oswald had absolutely no connection to CIA, then it's probably more likely that he did... There is plenty of other evidence that LHO had connections to CIA besides his work for Naval Intell at Asugi...
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Robert Prey said:
The U2 Flights which Oswald monitored were under the authority of CIA.
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But that was yesterday. Today he is not a part of the CIA and therefore they weren't sacrificing one of their own as a patsy.

What will it be tomorrow, Robert?

It only happened one way. Your constant flip-flopping on issue after issue* shows clearly the evidence does not fit your conspiracy theories, and you have to modify them on a daily basis to make them fit the current objection, but ignore the fact that they now no longer fit the previous objection.

Hank

* Another recent example is your treatment of Ed Hoffman. At various times you alleged Ed Hoffman was a great witness and very credible; no, maybe he is, maybe he's not; no, Hoffman's story is just a hypothesis (!) [You really said all three!]
 
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Look, it's been proven there were 38,583 guns on the grassy knoll, 876,539 shots were fired, the President was hit by 42 of these rounds (conspiracy folk are notoriously poor shots, especially Naval Intelligence CIA Marine Sharpshooter Radar Operator Patsies). All the photos and movies were not altered, but were fooled by holograms projected from space from the Project Mercury capsule Conspiracy Bell 7. In exchange for this, Neil Armstrong was awarded the first moon flight. Neil actually fired the fatal shot from there, and deposited the rifle in the TSD, as well as the pristine bullet on the next orbit.
The whole thing was a horrible mistake, however. You see, the actual target was Lee Harvey, but like I said, these conspiracy people are lousy shots. That's why they had to get Jack Ruby to finish the job. At least, since he was connected with the mob, he could fire a gun and hit what he aimed for.
 
Robert Prey said:
Oh, there's lots more. But CIA's U2 is the very Best Evidence, yet totally ignored by Mr. McCone as well as the Warren Report.
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Do you know what evidence is?

Thus far, you haven't cited any that shows Oswald was linked to the CIA in any fashion.

Just saying CIA / U2 over and over doesn't change that.

Your best bet was the March 3rd, 1964 memo and I thought you really had something for a moment (I had not seen that before). But when it became clear that the memo originated with a tabloid journalist and is not verifiable, it likewise became evident that that memo is not legitimate evidence.

Hank
 
Robert Prey said:
Shortly thereafter, defects to USSR, and the U2 is shot down. Perhaps Oswald got a "Cryptic" security clearance (higher than Top Secret) so that he could work there to sweep floors.
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Just because A precedes B, doesn't mean A caused B.

Oswald had no cryptic and no top secret clearance. He had the same clearance as the other marines working radar in his unit.

Hank
 
HSienzant said:
Do you know what evidence is?

Thus far, you haven't cited any that shows Oswald was linked to the CIA in any fashion.

Just saying CIA / U2 over and over doesn't change that.

Your best bet was the March 3rd, 1964 memo and I thought you really had something for a moment (I had not seen that before). But when it became clear that the memo originated with a tabloid journalist and is not verifiable, it likewise became evident that that memo is not legitimate evidence.

Hank
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I don't assert the March memo is authentic. I only assert that it rings true. But I do assert that the May memo is clearly and blatantly false, since it does not admit to any CIA connection to Oswald and even more incriminating, it purports to speak for Hoover's FBI. The memo then must be considered a total lie, even if sworn to by Mr. McCone.
 
How many essential spy skills can a radar operator know?
Why would we imagine there is a connection between LHO and crashed spyplanes with out evidence?

Can Robert indicate any photo or frame of film with a photographic artefact that proves tampering yet?

No?

No physical evidence at all yet?

No?

No reason to believe any claims then.
 
HSienzant said:
Hilarious, Robert. Your claim is contrary to the facts.

So you're claiming these investigations into the crime never took place?

The Warren Commission
The House Select Committee on Assassinations
The Garrison Investigation
The Church Committee
The FBI Investigation (most of the FBI investigation into the crime happened AFTER the shooting of Oswald).

The only one that was mostly wrapped up with the death of Oswald was the Dallas Police Department's (although even they conducted interviews and tracked down some local conspiracy allegations after the shooting of Oswald).

http://history-matters.com/archive/contents/contents_jfk.htm

Just as one example of a conspiracy allegation that was investigated AFTER the shooting, check out the Antonio Veciana allegations.

You are absolutely wrong too say the investigation stopped with the death of Oswald. Where ever did you get that idea?

Hank
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LBJ did not want any further investigation. He was forced to form the WC and then controlled it with Hoover and Earl Warren.



Warren Counsel Wesley Liebeler:
“Well, you know if we do find out that this is a conspiracy you know that we have orders from Chief Justice Warren to cover this thing up.”

http://www.ctka.net/pr996-odio.html

It's important to understand that from the very beginning, officials of our governtment did not want a true investigation and made every attempt to "make the public satisfied that Oswald was the assassin."

There may be no other document that makes it more clear that there was no interest in a true investigation by the highest federal authorities and it was issued just days after the assassination. A memo prepared by Walter Jenkins reflects his conversation with J. Edgar Hoover where Hoover makes this telling statement:

"The thing I am most concerned about, and Mr. Katzenbach, is having something issued so that they can convince the public that Oswald is the real assassin."

This conversation occured on November 24, 1963, one day prior to Katzenbach's memo below. Meanwhile, Hoover himself wrote a glaring similar memo on the same day that reads:

"The thing I am most concerned about, and SO IS Mr. Katzenbach, is having something issued so that WE can convince the pubic that Oswald is the real assassin." (HSCA, vol 3, pp 471-473. This memo was apparently prepared by Hoover at 4 pm.)

http://www.jfklancer.com/Katzenbach.html

* * *

"The public must be satisfied that Oswald was the assassin; that he did not have confederates who are still at large; and that the evidence was such that he would have been convicted at trial."
Nov. 25, 1963
Attorney General Nicholas Katzenbach

http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/Walkthrough_-_Formation_of_the_Warren_Commission
 
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Robert Prey said:
The May 8 memo asserts the Oswald had no association with CIA. That is false. The documented association with the CIA sponsored U2 spy plane was never ever alluded to. That proves the memo is a lie.
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There is no documented association with the CIA. Working as a radar operator for the Marines isn't it. Otherwise you might as well claim he had a documented association with Japan Airlines, because he might have seen their planes on his radar screen as well.

Your claim that it's a documented association is the lie, not the McCone memo.

Hank
 
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Robert Prey said:

"The public must be satisfied that Oswald was the assassin; that he did not have confederates who are still at large; and that the evidence was such that he would have been convicted at trial."
Nov. 25, 1963
Attorney General Nicholas Katzenbach

http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/Walkthrough_-_Formation_of_the_Warren_Commission
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What's the first paragraph say, Robert? Why don't you ever quote that?

"It is important that all of the facts surrounding President Kennedy's Assassination be made public in a way which will satisfy people in the United States and abroad that all the facts have been told and that a statement to this effect be made now."

The rest of the Katzenbach memo is written with that in mind, and is written based on the information available to Katzenbach at the time, that Oswald was the assassin, he did it alone, and there was no conspiracy.

This was covered previously. You are just taking stuff out of context. And changing the subject to boot, because you're finding the CIA angle not fruitful enough.

Hank
 
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