Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga

[Patrick1000]

Jay, Jarrah, Bart and Buzz, the Plot Thickens.....

Check out this video........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0FcfC0pUc

Oh my!!!!!!!!.......... it would seem as though this was/is more of an obvious set up than we ever could have imagined.....

I wonder if Jarrah White will write back to me, I imagine he will. I mean shouldn't he be excited by the fact that I have proved this interaction STAGED and therefore FRAUDULENT....

 

[R.A.F.]

Has anyone here seen this production? If so, do they recommend it?

Not only that set, but any DVD set from spacecraftfilms.com is well worth the money...

 

[JayUtah]

Not sure what angle you are taking here Tomblvd, but regardless,..

Translation: I don't care what has been said, everyone should just listen to me.

You are not an expert -- rejected.

40(ish) year old men, sedentary for over a week in an Apollo CM/LM are at high risk of acquiring DVT/PE.

They were not sedentary, and the effects of microgravity on the vascular system is a field with 30 years of published findings that contradict your claims.

Straw man -- rejected.

Ask your doc friends about this.

I have, and they say you're wrong.

Would love to debate the fraud principals on this point, especially the "medical" personal.

No you wouldn't. If this were true you would already have sent your contact information to me so that I could set up a meeting with flight surgeons at Moffatt.

Bluster -- rejected.

 

[JayUtah]

The main reason why one identifies this tale bogus in this context is that the Apollo docs do not talk like docs.

You are not an expert -- rejected.

Were the thing real...

Begging the question -- rejected.

Docs , real docs, do not...

You are not an expert -- rejected.

Unusually, the Newsweek article authors, unlike almost everyone else wrote...

Secondary sources assumed as experts -- rejected.

Perhaps I can make this most clear with the DVT concern.

Asked and answered -- rejected.

Real docs would say...

Begging the question -- rejected.

...we know Apollo , all of Apollo to be fraudulent.

There is considerable worldwide medical expertise and finding on the behavior of the cardiovascular system in microgravity. None of what you say is confirmed in those findings; all of what you say is contradicted.

You are not an expert. Your opinion is not that of an expert. The published experts have rendered their data and opinions and they tell exactly the opposite story.

Case closed.

 

[Patrick1000]

I have that set........

I've always taken a keen (laymans) interest in all things "Space" if I can put it that way. Reading the content of this thread, especially that of the genuine experts in their various fields, has encouraged me to put my hand in my pocket and think about splashing out a little hard-earned on THIS 3 DVD SET. It's entitled "Apollo 13: The Real Story." Produced by Spacecraft Films.

In the blurb (on that page above) it lists.....





.....as part of the compilation. Looks very interesting.

Has anyone here seen this production? If so, do they recommend it?


Compus

I have that set........You ought to buy it. That has the Leibergot voice over where he tells the story about the doctors in coma at the flight officer console, you know where they show them a huge myocardial infarction in evolution and the docs go, "NO PROBLEM HERE".

Anyway, what you are referring to there, the little clip in the Apollo 13 Real Story collection, you can see that on line free, so don't buy the thing if that is what you are after.


NOW!!!!!! and this is exciting!!!!!! During the fraudulent congressional hearing on the fraudulent Apollo 13 accident, Cortright SHOWED A FILM THAT WAS A SYNOPSIS OF ALL THE TESTS, RELEVANT TESTS THEY CLAIMED TO HAVE DONE.

Can you say, "FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT"!!!!!!!!!, CompusMentus. My mom paid for that PHONY THING. And I am gonna' get it if it is the last hing I do......

This SpaceShip done Blowed up Big time..........

 

[JayUtah]

From the June 16 1970 Apollo 13 Accident HEARINGS...

Distraction -- rejected.

You were asked to comment on Appendix F, which contains a description of the empirical basis of the findings. Why have you not addressed this yet? You made a huge point of it in several posts over several days.

One presumes they...

Your uninformed assumptions are not a proper basis for criticizing the work of professionals. Argument rejected.

 

[Patrick1000]

Brian O'leary and Apollo Inauthenticity.......

I had read with fascination the story about Brian and his nod to the outside chance of Apollo being inauthentic. His various and sundry statements interpreted in various and sundry ways as regards his less that 100 % certitude.

I think the story is credible, may well not be apocryphal. Rather than tryt and do this on my own, I'll defer to one of Jay's favorite detractors;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmTLzTJ4TuU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnsVo_hFxO0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c90JTeSu7S4

Not bad presentation wise. Of course, I do prefer the narrative analysis approach and certainly this topic would be amenable. But White's presentation is not bad.

I'll have to look into this more for myself. At this point in time all I can say is it is really worth looking into. What would make O'leary "give" like this, even a smidgen.

Fascinating.........

 

[Erock]

Yet its likely that they didn't think to make sure the map was correct, that they knew at all times where the eagle was, that they didn't think to insure that anyone firing a laser at the site would get back the reading that they wanted, or what ever silly idea you think proves your case? Face it. Your story is just as stupid as his but at least he had the sense to stick with one.

IIRC Sibrel originally said they staged the TV rehearsal in LEO because they shot the Earth through the window from a few feet back to get it all in(which is kind of impossible), then in Astronauts gone wild, he changed this to David Percy's claim of a transparency.

If we were to draw a flowchart up, detailing the numerous contradictions and opinions of all the hoax believers, it would be a gigantic stundie.

 

[TjW]

A post featuring a clip of Aldrin/Sibrel punching scene allegedly from 2011.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELDWztp8nqc&feature=fvsr

Who, exactly, is alleging that Aldrin punched Sibrel in 2011?

 

[jeffhetzel]

I've always taken a keen (laymans) interest in all things "Space" if I can put it that way. Reading the content of this thread, especially that of the genuine experts in their various fields, has encouraged me to put my hand in my pocket and think about splashing out a little hard-earned on THIS 3 DVD SET. It's entitled "Apollo 13: The Real Story." Produced by Spacecraft Films.

In the blurb (on that page above) it lists.....





.....as part of the compilation. Looks very interesting.

Has anyone here seen this production? If so, do they recommend it?


Compus

The set is well worth it. I am watching it again right now. You won't go wrong with any of the Spacecraft films sets. I finally am at the point where I have everything dealing with the early years up to the the shuttle. I think it might be hard to convince my wive of the "need" of those.

 

[Tomblvd]

Not sure what angle you are taking here Tomblvd

We are discussing the fact that you are clueless as to what the risk factors are for DVT.

but regardless,.....40(ish) year old men, sedentary for over a week in an Apollo CM/LM are at high risk of acquiring DVT/PE.

Thank you for proving conclusively yet again that you don't read the posts addressed to you. I explained exactly why the astronauts we not at "high risk" of DVT and specifically why they were not "sedentary".

You do know what "sedentary" means, don't you?

How about the factor gravity plays in DVT?

You don't know a lot about anything, do you?

Not nearly the point that the INFLUENZA point is, but it is a good one. Ask your doc friends about this. Would love to debate the fraud principals on this point, especially the "medical" personal.

As pointed out ad nauseaum, I AM A "DOC", and you refuse to debate me on this influenza issue. Every time I post to you about it, you run away and ignore me.

And it's personnel, not personal.

 

[Tomblvd]

One of the points here that is rather difficult to convey,

It must be difficult because in all those paragraphs, all those words, you said absolutely nothing about my points concerning DVT. Actually, you managed to say absolutely nothing about anything. You just wrote on and on, trying to impress us with big words and wiki-fu.

BTW, you are not a medical doctor, please stop implying that you are.

 

[Erock]

I wonder if Jarrah White will write back to me, I imagine he will.

Hmmmm. Now we have a perfect explanation, if Jarrah suddenly posts mad videos along the lines of what you have contended

I mean shouldn't he be excited by the fact that I have proved this interaction STAGED and therefore FRAUDULENT....

I cannot express this any other way - I simply shook my head slowly and made a wtf face at the screen. You "proved it" did you? Really? You are descending into the depths of trolling for amusement, or possess the discerning abilities of a cactus

 

[Patrick1000]

you are beautitular fat freddy

Here's another issue of which I'd like to hear Jay Windley's analysis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhab86KoVjU

It seems that Mythbusters deliberately didn't show the moving flag on the moon coming to a stop when the astronaut stopped moving the pole and misled viewers into thinking that it came to a stop slowly when it had in fact come to a quick stop the way it would in atmosphere.

This video exposes their fraud.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7yc2rVOs00

Keep up the strong work buddy

 

[abaddon]

I have that set........You ought to buy it. That has the Leibergot voice over where he tells the story about the doctors in coma at the flight officer console, you know where they show them a huge myocardial infarction in evolution and the docs go, "NO PROBLEM HERE".

Wait? What? No astronaut ever had an MI. What are you referring to?

Anyway, what you are referring to there, the little clip in the Apollo 13 Real Story collection, you can see that on line free, so don't buy the thing if that is what you are after.

Link?

NOW!!!!!! and this is exciting!!!!!! During the fraudulent congressional hearing on the fraudulent Apollo 13 accident, Cortright SHOWED A FILM THAT WAS A SYNOPSIS OF ALL THE TESTS, RELEVANT TESTS THEY CLAIMED TO HAVE DONE.

Wait, what? Would these be the actual tests you claimed were not carried out by the Cortright commission? The tests you claimed were not carried out? The tests detailed in appendix F? The tests you asked for that were in reality, right there in the reports? The tests that you keep retreating from? Having previously claimed that no such tests occurred. and been demonstrated to be incorrect, are you now shifting goalposts, and claiming that the tests and results are right there in the Cortright report are faked? Really, Patrick?

Can you say, "FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT"!!!!!!!!!, CompusMentus.

I can't speak for Compus, but I can say FOIA. So what?

My mom paid for that PHONY THING. And I am gonna' get it if it is the last hing I do......

Appealing to the authority of your "mom"? Really Patrick? Seriously?

This SpaceShip done Blowed up Big time..........

This grammatical monstrosity requires no comment of mine.

 

[Patrick1000]

Not sure where you guys are coming from.....

It must be difficult because in all those paragraphs, all those words, you said absolutely nothing about my points concerning DVT. Actually, you managed to say absolutely nothing about anything. You just wrote on and on, trying to impress us with big words and wiki-fu.

BTW, you are not a medical doctor, please stop implying that you are.

Not sure where you guys are coming from.....

These dudes are sedentary for 10 days. They are floating, so it is not as "bad" as it would be were they sitting in a car or on an airplane for ten days. That said, there is essentially no/very very very little muscle contraction for 10 days. What squeezes your veins? How is blood "pumped" through your veins? Once a tiny clot forms, say distally, it can propagate. Because one is in space, would that mean there would be no need for veins with one way valves? Of course not. One would still need/benefit from valves.....

This point, if it is a point of yours Tomblvd or whomever, is ridiculous. Anyone SEDENTARY like this, in or out of a gravitational field, will be at increased risk for DVT/PE. They are not moving and so blood might/would stagnate in the large veins of their legs and perhaps pelvis as well. It is a problem bordering on the impossible to study clinically as one's study sample is so small. It is not possible to say the risk would be blah blah blah based on a study of 1200 Apollo/Gemini/Mercury astronauts. The risk would be expected to be even greater for a person sitting in a car say for this amount of time, 10 days, but still, the 1960s astronaut would be at greater risk than it would be for a terrestrial healthy active 40 year old. Ever see those dumb shots of an astronaut, a Lovell type, jogging?

Interestingly, the same considerations might not apply, or would be applied differently, to space station types working in large "capsules", work areas. I'll leave this discussion for a rainy day(neutrino showers bring May flowers).

Again to emphasize, this is a trivial consideration. That said, one would have expected something from the NASA docs. Quacks........

 

[Patrick1000]

Same point I have made to Loss Leader......

It must be difficult because in all those paragraphs, all those words, you said absolutely nothing about my points concerning DVT. Actually, you managed to say absolutely nothing about anything. You just wrote on and on, trying to impress us with big words and wiki-fu.

BTW, you are not a medical doctor, please stop implying that you are.

Same point I have made to Loss Leader......

Given the realities of the situation, not that it makes all that much difference to me one way or the other, it is your choice, your strategy, BUT what happens if this strategy of yours doesn't pan out? What if I am a doc that works on a daily basis with the INFLUENZA problem, know a lot about it, the DVT/PE PROBLEM as well? Those astronauts are gonna' be stranded out there naked in the cold of cislunar space without a defense. The jig will really be up then. I think it is a VERY BAD STRATEGY MYSELF on your part Tomblvd, but that is just me.

Maybe you guys should find a real doc willing to mix it up with me here, let us go at it with our "big words" and see what shakes out....

By the way, I make a strong effort NOT to use technical terminology here in the thread.....

 

[Patrick1000]

Per our previous exchange.....

Now, Patrick1000, why would the Chinese, them of the Great Firewall of China and known for their 'really-being-very-open-not-at-all-secretive' attitude, put hi-res scans online on which you really could see anything?

I mean, the distance of the flyby was less than the distance of the known spy satellites... and those can do decimeter range objects.

The cost could not have been the issue as the camera is quite expensive, but compared to the whole cost of building, launching and managing a satellite it is almost negligeble.

And as for giving the nod to NASA... the Brits are building a space station in Mexico, the Indians have launched a moon survey, every regular Joe can send up a small satellite for a few bucks...

NASA needs the Russians for getting stuff up there... forget about anyone having to give the nod to NASA for anything when it comes to space.

Per our previous exchange.....

Here are the most important of my early posts, pages 1-10. Pages 11-20 soon to follow and so on. I'll post them as I go along.

1) http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=7464132#post7464132

2) http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=7464182#post7464182

Edited by Locknar: 

<SNIP>, breach of rule 6. If you want to reference a few posts that is fine; but lists of 50 not so much.

50) http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=7475793#post7475793

 

[Dcdrac]

BTW, you are not a medical doctor, please stop implying that you are.

I know it is highly illegal to do the above in the UK suppsoedly it msut be the same elswhere

 

[Loss Leader]

What if I am a doc that works on a daily basis with the INFLUENZA problem, know a lot about it, the DVT/PE PROBLEM as well?

Then nothing would change. You would still be wrong. You would still be wrong about the politics; chemistry; physics; logic; orbital mechanics; psychology; rocketry; robotics; computer science; historiography; and, of course, all the medicine.