Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga

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Check this out;

<usual Patrick nonsense snipped>


Why don't you tell us what you think the video shows, now that you are apparently pretending to be an expert in video production? Come on, I know video, let's hear your theories.

Edited by LashL: 
Edited for moderated thread.
 
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Don't tell me... you are going to say that the speed of light....

Would you like for me to explain why you're wrong about this pat?

Don't tell me... you are going to say that the speed of light...is greater than that of sound, or something to that effect......

Go ahead and tell me what you really think Redtail, of course I want you to. I am not posting here for my health, which is rather good, but that is most decidedly beside the point.....

If one creates a visual on the audio of this nonsense, the PUNCH's sound precedes that of "THIEF", and there are other audiometric facts which confirm this as bogus ....Not to mention the STAGING, the inactivity of the one cameraman, the leaving of the scene by the Bellman, and so forth and so on and on and on and on and on and on. God that thing is stupid........

That said, the strongest evidence against Sibrel is simply the implausibility of his story. Is one expected to believe that HE, SIBREL, WOULD BELIEVE HIMSELF THAT NASA WOULD RELEASE TO HIM A CONFIDENTIAL VIDEO OF THE APOLLO 11 ASTRONAUTS IN PRETEND CISLUNAR SPACE?

Are we to believe Aldrin would sit there and listen to that clown in his office as he did, semi-respectfully I might add? Certainly, he listened without the expected measure of most well deserved contempt? Ditto for Mitchell, Bean, Cernan.

Any genuine self rspecting astronaut would not allow the filming to continue under those bizarre and most unrealistic of circumstances. The whole thing is silly beyond belief. More details to follow.
 
As with the 9/11 "Twoofers" the word "debate" is thrown around quite a bit here.

"I want to debate you." "Why won't anyone debate me?" and so on

Without IMO a clear understanding of what an actual debate is. It is a very structured format, that requires the person speaking to stay on topic and to make points by presenting a reasoned argument. A debate is not won by evading questions presented to you, by not acknowledging when your arguement doesn't work or by changing the subject.

To anyone seriously interested in a debate, I would suggest that you check the internet for a local debate society or see if their is a high school tournament near where you live and check it out.
 
If one creates a visual on the audio of this nonsense, the PUNCH's sound precedes that of "THIEF", and there are other audiometric facts which confirm this as bogus...

Patrick, before you get all wound up...

Yes, it's obvious that your version of the clip has time-shifted audio. But you're making insinuations regarding who may have edited it and why. When you just download something randomly off the internet, as you seem to have done here, you have absolutely no information about what may have been done to it along the way.

So instead of trying to beat people over the head with the fact that the film has been doctored, try to find out who doctored your clip and why. Then and only then you might have a case. Until you do that, you're just charging at windmills.

God that thing is stupid....

Your opinion of what would constitute a "properly" set up ambush interview is noted -- and disregarded as irrelevant. After eight months haven't you figured out that no one agrees with your arbitrary opinions? Do you have that little respect for your audience? I mean the non sock puppet audience?

That said, the strongest evidence against Sibrel is simply the implausibility of his story.

Yes, I agree that Sibrel's story is implausible. So is yours. Most conspiracy theorists have completely implausible stories. Your argument here begs the question that conspiracy theories are evidently sensible. In fact they're largely considered to be bogus from the get-go. As both I and Sts60 have told you, conspiracy theorists don't even appear on the radar among the appropriately qualified professionals.

You get less respect, though. Sibrel is at least willing to go out and talk to the people he's accusing, under his real name and against his real-life reputation. You haven't shown that you're willing to lift a finger beyond sitting at your computer, Googling, and slinging CAPS-riddled rants. You haven't demonstrated anything beyond what a bored teenager could accomplish.

What makes you think you can credibly pass judgment on anyone, even other conspiracy theorists? As far as level of effort, you rank pretty far down. You write prodigiously, but you commit the same errors and evasions over and over again. It grows tedious.

Is one expected to believe that HE, SIBREL, WOULD BELIEVE HIMSELF THAT NASA WOULD RELEASE TO HIM A CONFIDENTIAL VIDEO OF THE APOLLO 11 ASTRONAUTS IN PRETEND CISLUNAR SPACE?

You misrepresent Sibrel. He believes he was given the video by mistake, that it was something he was not supposed to see.

Now of course he's mistaken. He misinterpreted a preface slug and thought he was seeing film that wasn't supposed to be circulated outside of NASA. To further compound his error, he didn't realize that a large portion of what he had in hand was the 30-minute live telecast; he's that incompetent with the source material.

However, incompetence with the source material is a hallmark of conspiracy theories -- your incompetence especially. You can't say that Sibrel is a shill because his claims about the source materials are not credible. The fact that escapes you is that your claims about the source material are equally nonsensical. Someone can just as easily say, "Are we really supposed to believe Patrick1000 when he says that NASA released medical or engineering reports to the public that are scientifically indefensible?"

The same arguments you offer for Sibrel being a shill can be applied equally or more so to you. You're just too arrogant to see that.

Physician, heal thyself.

Ditto for Mitchell, Bean, Cernan.

No, I spoke to Mitchell directly. A portion of Sibrel's interview with him was essentially cordial. Then when Sibrel attempted to spring his trap, Mitchell kicked him out of his house. As in planted his foot squarely upon Sibrel's posterior, in the most literal sense. You don't see that in Sibrel's video. Guess why?

You fell for Karel. You're apparently also falling for Sibrel. Don't you realize what can be accomplished by careful editing? That's all Sibrel's tactics are: clever editing tricks. I went into them at length when I reviewed Sibrel's film, and gave examples of them. There were even more in Karel's documentary that you linked to above. But you cherry-picked out what you wanted to present and ignored the rest, even the part that explains why you fall for Sibrel too.

No, Patrick, you aren't a film critic. You can't demonstrate even the slightest correct knowledge about film technniques. It's the latest in a very long line of things you've failed at.

Any genuine self rspecting astronaut would...

Begging the question. You do not get to make rules for astronauts.

The whole thing is silly beyond belief.

Who cares? Are you really so desperate for attention that you're stooping to claiming other conspiracy theorists are also hoaxes?

More details to follow.

Why bother? You've already admitted you don't know anything about video production. Why should the world care what you think? I can go subject myself to any number of uninformed blowhards down at the coffee shop near the Utah Film Society headquarters. I've seen Sundance Film Festival groupies who can demonstrate better knowledge of film than you. Why don't I just listen to them instead?

Besides, we all know that your promise of more detail isn't worth anything. Your idea of "more detail" is simply lengthier and more caps-riddled rants that say nothing except how great you are. The details we all want and are asking for, such as

  • computations proving that PTFE and aluminum will not ignite and combust under the Apollo 13 conditions
  • analysis of Appendix F of the Cortright report
  • substantiation that you have made contact with the people you accuse
  • any verifiable professional or academic credential
  • contact information so that you can accuse people in person

never appear in any form. You promise much, but deliver nothing. That's why Sibrel, for all his faults and malice, deserves so much more respect than you.
 
I already said what it shows. Sibrel gets punched and then says "THIEF"....

Why don't you tell us what you think the video shows, now that you are apparently pretending to be an expert in video production? Come on, I know video, let's hear your theories.

Edited by LashL: 
Edited for moderated thread.

I already said what it shows. Sibrel gets punched and THEN says "THIEF"....... That is not possible unless this thing is FAKE and FAKE it is, STAGED it is, not only for this reason, but others as well.

So AdMan, the film shows Sibrel the nitwit to be YOUR PAL not my pal. He is on team Apollo Apology and fighting the bogus fight. He is not with me, thank you very much, not with me and my buddy
FamouslyFabulousAndDangerouslyDangerousFatfreddy Collins Chop buster extraordinaire.
 
If one creates a visual on the audio of this nonsense, the PUNCH's sound precedes that of "THIEF",

Do you read replies?!!

He called him a coward and a liar, then he hit him as he was finishing off his triple insult.

and there are other audiometric facts which confirm this as bogus

Rubbish. Your theory is mind numbingly ridiculous.

Not to mention the STAGING, the inactivity of the one cameraman, the leaving of the scene by the Bellman, and so forth and so on and on and on and on and on and on. God that thing is stupid........

Something is:rolleyes:

That said, the strongest evidence against Sibrel is simply the implausibility of his story. Is one expected to believe that HE, SIBREL, WOULD BELIEVE HIMSELF THAT NASA WOULD RELEASE TO HIM A CONFIDENTIAL VIDEO OF THE APOLLO 11 ASTRONAUTS IN PRETEND CISLUNAR SPACE?

My god Patrick, are you really that dense? Sibrel was the one who claimed this, he manipulated the footage and left bits out deliberately, then lied his butt off about it being super sekrit.........TO SELL HIS FILM!!!!!!!!!!

Get it?:rolleyes:

Are we to believe Aldrin would sit there and listen to that clown in his office as he did, semi-respectfully I might add?

Sibrel stalked these people for months, edited the film to make it look different, altered the timeline. All sorts.

Certainly, he listened without the expected measure of most well deserved contempt?

His contempt arrived with Sibrel's dogged persistance, and then his face to face insult.

Ditto for Mitchell, Bean, Cernan.

Sibrel lied as to his intent, they were interviewed under false pretence. Why wouldn't they be polite!

Any genuine self rspecting astronaut would not allow the filming to continue under those bizarre and most unrealistic of circumstances. The whole thing is silly beyond belief. More details to follow.

You being so well informed about this? Please don't provide more details, you really are pushing your self into the realms of nuttiness. The other stuff we can chalk down to ignorance, your ego stopping you from admitting your errors - but this? This is just plain stupid.:boxedin:
 
That said, the strongest evidence against Sibrel is simply the implausibility of his story. Is one expected to believe that HE, SIBREL, WOULD BELIEVE HIMSELF THAT NASA WOULD RELEASE TO HIM A CONFIDENTIAL VIDEO OF THE APOLLO 11 ASTRONAUTS IN PRETEND CISLUNAR SPACE?

No, it isn't required. It is only required that Sibrel believe his audience will fall for it.

And, showing P.T. Barnum indeed ages well, many did and still do.


Are we to believe Aldrin would sit there and listen to that clown in his office as he did, semi-respectfully I might add? Certainly, he listened without the expected measure of most well deserved contempt? Ditto for Mitchell, Bean, Cernan.

Any genuine self rspecting astronaut would not allow the filming to continue under those bizarre and most unrealistic of circumstances. The whole thing is silly beyond belief. More details to follow.

The first time, yes. Then word got out.
 
My God Patrick, could you have failed any worse in this one post? You literally got every fact wrong.

Not only wrong, but pretty much exactly the opposite of what really happens in space.

This is the engineer's perspective, not the physician's perspective. But this is what the MDs want us engineers to know about the problem so that we can design things for astronauts that help their bodies function well in space.

The human vascular system is a series of tubes. Unlike most static plumbing, it is a series of elastic tubes that can vary its diameter (viz. "dilate or constrict blood vessels") from place to place and time to time, and can do so under nervous system control in response to stimulus. It contains a liquid suspension under pressure applied by the elasticity of the tubes, much the same way as a water balloon contains water under pressure applied by the latex container.

While standing, the blood in our lower extremities -- calves and feet -- is also subject to additional pressure from the weight of the blood in all those mostly-vertical tubes. You probably remember this from basic physics or chemistry: if you have a column of fluid, the pressure measured at points along the column is proportional to the weight of the portion of the fluid above each point -- i.e., pressure increases the deeper you go. So blood in your calves bears the "weight" of all the blood in the meter or so of vascular system above that point on the calf where you take a reading.

Here's the magical thing. The human vascular system has evolved to attempt to equalize blood pressure along the vertical extent of the vascular system. It wants to make it harder for blood to go down into the legs, and easier for blood to go up into the head. The brain, after all, must be kept fed with blood-borne oxygen and nutrients. The autonomic nervous system manipulates the diameter of the blood vessels to attempt to keep blood pressure uniform and keep the blood from trying to pool at the lower extremities.

In this task it is aided by the motor muscles of the legs. The natural motion of those limbs helps regulate the blood flow. In high-performance aircraft it is aided further by G-suits that artificially constrict the legs and prevent blood from being drawn away from the upper portion of the body during high-G maneuvers.

When those limbs are immobilized, the vascular system's autonomic response is often not enough to correct by itself the natural tendency of the blood to pool in the legs and feet. This also occurs as the vascular system becomes more brittle with age and clogged with contaminants. Whatever the cause, the principal reason blood pools there is gravity. The physiological behavior is a response to millions of years of evolution in an environment featuring gravity.

Take gravity away and what happens? First, there's no gravity-induced pressure gradient. "Stand" on the floor of your spacecraft and your blood pressure is strictly a function of the elasticity of the vascular system -- it will be roughly equal all over body, rather than tending toward higher pressure in your feet. No gravity to mess with circulation.

Second, that built-in equalization response starts working against you. The policy of making it easier to pump blood to the head and harder to the feet was meant to compensate partially for the gravity-induced pressure gradient. As a result the gradient reverses itself: you have higher blood pressure in the upper extremities. Astronauts frequently complain of feeling "full in the head" or congested while in microgravity. Eventually the body's autonomous response calms down and adapts, but not immediately.

Finally, the Apollo CM has a surprising amount of wiggle room when gravity is removed. The center (and sometimes other) couch(es) were folded up and stowed when in cruise flight, leaving much room to move around, stretch the legs, and so forth. This allows the leg muscles to do their proper job in regulating vascular diameter/pressure and contribute to the overall regulation of blood pressure and flow.
 
Don't tell me... you are going to say that the speed of light...is greater than that of sound, or something to that effect......

Go ahead and tell me what you really think Redtail, of course I want you to. I am not posting here for my health, which is rather good, but that is most decidedly beside the point.....

If one creates a visual on the audio of this nonsense, the PUNCH's sound precedes that of "THIEF", and there are other audiometric facts which confirm this as bogus ....Not to mention the STAGING, the inactivity of the one cameraman, the leaving of the scene by the Bellman, and so forth and so on and on and on and on and on and on. God that thing is stupid........

That said, the strongest evidence against Sibrel is simply the implausibility of his story. Is one expected to believe that HE, SIBREL, WOULD BELIEVE HIMSELF THAT NASA WOULD RELEASE TO HIM A CONFIDENTIAL VIDEO OF THE APOLLO 11 ASTRONAUTS IN PRETEND CISLUNAR SPACE?

Are we to believe Aldrin would sit there and listen to that clown in his office as he did, semi-respectfully I might add? Certainly, he listened without the expected measure of most well deserved contempt? Ditto for Mitchell, Bean, Cernan.

Any genuine self rspecting astronaut would not allow the filming to continue under those bizarre and most unrealistic of circumstances. The whole thing is silly beyond belief. More details to follow.
I watched the video on YouTube. Admittedly, I have no idea how many generations the version I watched is from the original recording, but:

The sound of the punch is ahead of the word "thief". That's because Aldrin swung on Sibrel on the last word of "coward". I suspect that part of the sound is Sibrel's lapel mike picking up the sound of his jacket bunching up as he defended himself.

As for Aldrin allowing himself to be taped, I see someone politely trying to get away from a stalker with video production equipment as politely as possible until finally provoked.

The bellman's behavior is reasonable - he has no enforcement authority. All he can do is try to intervene and state that he would call the police. In fact, if he'd physically touched Sibrel without cause (and there wasn't any cause), he could have been arrested for assault.

OK, now that we've disposed of this, where is the PTFE analysis you promised? And, yes or no, in a short declarative sentence, are you going to provide Jay your contact info?

And a new question from me: are you going to answer Jay (and the rest of us) regarding his matte (green screen) questions?
 
Don't tell me... you are going to say that the speed of light...is greater than that of sound, or something to that effect......

Go ahead and tell me what you really think Redtail, of course I want you to. I am not posting here for my health, which is rather good, but that is most decidedly beside the point.....

If one creates a visual on the audio of this nonsense, the PUNCH's sound precedes that of "THIEF", and there are other audiometric facts which confirm this as bogus ....Not to mention the STAGING, the inactivity of the one cameraman, the leaving of the scene by the Bellman, and so forth and so on and on and on and on and on and on. God that thing is stupid........

That said, the strongest evidence against Sibrel is simply the implausibility of his story. Is one expected to believe that HE, SIBREL, WOULD BELIEVE HIMSELF THAT NASA WOULD RELEASE TO HIM A CONFIDENTIAL VIDEO OF THE APOLLO 11 ASTRONAUTS IN PRETEND CISLUNAR SPACE?

Are we to believe Aldrin would sit there and listen to that clown in his office as he did, semi-respectfully I might add? Certainly, he listened without the expected measure of most well deserved contempt? Ditto for Mitchell, Bean, Cernan.

Any genuine self rspecting astronaut would not allow the filming to continue under those bizarre and most unrealistic of circumstances. The whole thing is silly beyond belief. More details to follow.

It should be abundantly clear by now Patrick1000 that no one here cares what you believe, only what you can prove, which is to date exactly nothing. Kindly answer the questions that you have been so busily dodging, and respond definitively to JayUtah's offer.
 
The Roof, matter-0-fact, the cislunar ceiling, Is Caving In......

A post featuring a clip of Aldrin/Sibrel punching scene allegedly from 2011.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELDWztp8nqc&feature=fvsr


Note in this particular version, one hears Sibrel get punched, then hears Sibel say THIEF, and then and only then AFTER THAT DOES ONE SEE SIBREL GET PUNCHED.

This version is purportedly put up by an Apollo fraud advocate, but obviously this cannot be the case. This person is a perp in sheep's clothing. The perp has changed the timing of the original Sibrel DVD presentation to try and put the sound of the punch where it ought to be.

This guy actually has screwed things up all the worse for the Apollo Apologist side, and now we know there are people/shills trying to pass themselves off as Apollo fraud advocates who are in actuality, Apollo Hoax perpetrators themselves, promulgating the bogus phony ever so ridiculous "Apollo We Really Did Land on The Moon Fairy Tale" by way of doing things like this, altering the timing of the dubbed PUNCH and "THIEF" exclamation.


This stuff is pure gold gold GOLD GOLD GOLD GOLD GOLD........ INSANE AND EVER SO OFF THE HOOK.

This Space Ship Done Blowed UP BIG TIME..........
 
Not sure what angle is being taken here but regardless,.....

We now have example, what is it, 13 or 14, now that Patrick has not even a passing acquaintance with medicine (or, in this case, spaceflight, Apollo, or physics).

DVT is usually caused when blood pools in the large blood vessels of the legs, where the blood cells then have a greater tendency to form a clot, which can then break free and migrate to the heart, brain, lungs or other vital area. It is know to happen to long-haul air travelers, where they have almost no chance to stretch their legs, although it is very, very rare.

So, knowing what we know about DVT and spaceflight, what conclusions can we come to? Well, if space flight in a cramped area were exacerbating circumstances, we could have expected at least one of the cosmonauts who spent many, many months, up to a year, jammed into Mir to have suffered from it. In addition, some of the Gemini flights were longer than the Apollo missions, and let's not forget Skylab and the ISS. Yet not a single case.

In addition, one of the main factors is the inability to "stretch your legs". Well, during Apollo, the astronauts were out of their seats changing out of their space suits while still in Earth orbit. So they spent almost no extended time strapped in their seats.

And lastly, let's look more closely at the relevant cause of DVT. It can occur when the blood pools in the large vessels of the lower extremities. Anybody with a grade school knowledge of space flight would know that blood would NOT pool in the lower extremities because of the lack of gravity.

Yes, DVT was a possible condition. So was terminal acne.

My God Patrick, could you have failed any worse in this one post? You literally got every fact wrong.


Not sure what angle you are taking here Tomblvd, but regardless,.....40(ish) year old men, sedentary for over a week in an Apollo CM/LM are at high risk of acquiring DVT/PE.

Not nearly the point that the INFLUENZA point is, but it is a good one. Ask your doc friends about this. Would love to debate the fraud principals on this point, especially the "medical" personal.
 
I already said what it shows. Sibrel gets punched and THEN says "THIEF"....... That is not possible unless this thing is FAKE and FAKE it is, STAGED it is, not only for this reason, but others as well.

So AdMan, the film shows Sibrel the nitwit to be YOUR PAL not my pal. He is on team Apollo Apology and fighting the bogus fight. He is not with me, thank you very much, not with me and my buddy
FamouslyFabulousAndDangerouslyDangerousFatfreddy Collins Chop buster extraordinaire.


You believe what you want to hear, just as you believe what you want to see.

Virtually no one, certainly no one who knows what they are talking about, agrees with you.

Your "analysis" of the video evidence is quite idiotic and shows how little you know of the medium. Tell me, what expertise do you have that qualifies you to examine video and audio recordings? I'm curious to learn which institution, if any, taught you this nonsense.

You're grasping at straws, patrick/fattydash/Dr. Tea/totallycomplexdude/etc. we can see right through you.
 
High School Chemistry, FYI Teflon Ignition Temperature Found...

From the June 16 1970 Apollo 13 Accident HEARINGS BEFORE THE COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE AND ASTRONAUTICS U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES NINETY FIRST CONGRESS SECOND SESSION

After the CONCLUSION section of the presentation there is a question and answer segment. In response to a question from Hechler as to what a "joule" is, Cortright provided the following with respect to Teflon's properties.

At 800 to 900 degrees F, Teflon as wiring insulation will slowly oxidize and "disappear off the wires entirely". Teflon's ignition temperature was stated explicitly by Cortright to be 1300 degrees F. An important number for us. It's not the activation energy, but something one can work with in this.

Cortright informed the members of the Congressional Committee that the combustion temperature for Teflon was 2000 degrees F.

In his providing other information elsewhere, Cortright stated that Teflon was favored over metal/aluminum burning as the fuel source for the tank's blowing as the pressure rise was relatively slow. One presumes they would have looked all the more seriously at aluminum were this not the case, though that is not stated explicitly and aluminum is always mentioned as a possible combustant regardless.
 
Very low key, would strike most as understated......

We now have example, what is it, 13 or 14, now that Patrick has not even a passing acquaintance with medicine (or, in this case, spaceflight, Apollo, or physics).

DVT is usually caused when blood pools in the large blood vessels of the legs, where the blood cells then have a greater tendency to form a clot, which can then break free and migrate to the heart, brain, lungs or other vital area. It is know to happen to long-haul air travelers, where they have almost no chance to stretch their legs, although it is very, very rare.

So, knowing what we know about DVT and spaceflight, what conclusions can we come to? Well, if space flight in a cramped area were exacerbating circumstances, we could have expected at least one of the cosmonauts who spent many, many months, up to a year, jammed into Mir to have suffered from it. In addition, some of the Gemini flights were longer than the Apollo missions, and let's not forget Skylab and the ISS. Yet not a single case.

In addition, one of the main factors is the inability to "stretch your legs". Well, during Apollo, the astronauts were out of their seats changing out of their space suits while still in Earth orbit. So they spent almost no extended time strapped in their seats.

And lastly, let's look more closely at the relevant cause of DVT. It can occur when the blood pools in the large vessels of the lower extremities. Anybody with a grade school knowledge of space flight would know that blood would NOT pool in the lower extremities because of the lack of gravity.

Yes, DVT was a possible condition. So was terminal acne.

My God Patrick, could you have failed any worse in this one post? You literally got every fact wrong.

One of the points here that is rather difficult to convey, certainly it is obvious that essentially everyone here is missing it, is that were any of this Apollo stuff real, the medical concerns being discussed, those discussed by the Apollo Program docs, those referenced in this thread by me, INFLUENZA, DVT, these matters would be addressed in a fairly low key way.

The main reason why one identifies this tale bogus in this context is that the Apollo docs do not talk like docs. Were the thing real, intelligent mention would be made of INFLUENZA and that would be that, cut and dried and simple. It is the exaggerated inaccurate discussion that gives the thing away as the BULL that it is.

Were real docs involved, MUCH LESS WOULD HAVE BEEN SAID AND WRITTEN ABOUT THE INFLUENZA ISSUE, THOUGH WHAT WAS SAID AND WRITTEN WOULD HAVE BEEN ACCURATE, OR AT LEAST MUCH MORE SO.

Docs , real docs, do not make a big deal about this in the way most JREF readers here seem to be mistaking they would/do in the real world. Don't get me wrong, the threat would have been perceived as a huge concern, but would be stated as just that, clearly explicitly and then that is that, done. Two three sentences. That is unless these guys actually came down with INFLUENZA.

In the Newsweek article that was published while the Apollo 13 astronauts "were still in space", the authors mentioned that INFLUENZA was viewed as a real-time concern, that the Apollo 13 astronauts MIGHT ACTUALLY HAVE THE HONG KONG FLU RIGHT THERE IN SPACE. Of course it wasn't a genuine concern. Unusually, the Newsweek article authors, unlike almost everyone else wrote that the Hong Kong flu was a real-time possibility, that Borman and even the others might have acquired it despite vaccination. However, were it to have been so, were the docs to have really thought these guys really had it, or might have had it, well then it would have been a huge deal, off the hook huge. So one knows the Newsweek people are being misinformed, disinformed, or perhaps being misinformative themselves, or intentionally disinforming the public.

Perhaps I can make this most clear with the DVT concern. Real docs would say little about it, probably very little, but real docs would have said SOMETHING and something intelligent. Because nothing was said, and when it comes to Apollo medicine, nothing is ever said that is intelligent, we know Apollo , all of Apollo to be fraudulent.

There is that wonderful anecdote that Leibergot tells about the medical guys there in Mission Control. Once they were running a simulation and the ECG tracing was altered to look like a massive MI was evolving in one of the astronaut's myocardiums, right there in cislunar space, huge ST segment elevation, that type of thing, a caricature of a heart attack, "TOMBSTONES" as we call them. Cannot miss it. And in the context of this simulation, the flight surgeon was hardly expected to miss it. But he did. They asked him what he thought of the tracing and he said everything was fine. Leibergot indicated these guys were not worth much of anything, the flight surgeons monitoring the astronauts in real time, not worth anything in terms of their contribution if it could be called a contribution at all. This anecdote is from one of the SPACECRAFT videos on Apollo 13 where Leibergot does a voice over describing what had been silent color film footage of Mission Control in the Apollo 13 era.
 
Don't tell me... you are going to say that the speed of light...is greater than that of sound, or something to that effect......
Nope.

Go ahead and tell me what you really think Redtail, of course I want you to. I am not posting here for my health, which is rather good, but that is most decidedly beside the point.....

If one creates a visual on the audio of this nonsense, the PUNCH's sound precedes that of "THIEF", and there are other audiometric facts which confirm this as bogus ....Not to mention the STAGING, the inactivity of the one cameraman, the leaving of the scene by the Bellman, and so forth and so on and on and on and on and on and on. God that thing is stupid........
Simple. Aldrin swung & connected before Sibrel said "thief". That's why thief sounds more like "thwoof". Unless you are going to say that its impossible to punch someone before they finish a sentence.

As for the "staging",easily explained by human nature. The bell hop saw two guys arguing & went to alert security or simply didn't want to get involved. As for the cameraman, what should he have done?

That said, the strongest evidence against Sibrel is simply the implausibility of his story. Is one expected to believe that HE, SIBREL, WOULD BELIEVE HIMSELF THAT NASA WOULD RELEASE TO HIM A CONFIDENTIAL VIDEO OF THE APOLLO 11 ASTRONAUTS IN PRETEND CISLUNAR SPACE?
Yet its likely that they didn't think to make sure the map was correct, that they knew at all times where the eagle was, that they didn't think to insure that anyone firing a laser at the site would get back the reading that they wanted, or what ever silly idea you think proves your case? Face it. Your story is just as stupid as his but at least he had the sense to stick with one.

Are we to believe Aldrin would sit there and listen to that clown in his office as he did, semi-respectfully I might add? Certainly, he listened without the expected measure of most well deserved contempt? Ditto for Mitchell, Bean, Cernan.

Any genuine self rspecting astronaut would not allow the filming to continue under those bizarre and most unrealistic of circumstances. The whole thing is silly beyond belief. More details to follow.

Actually this is what I was getting at about you being wrong. Aldrin's punch was flat out sloppy. Sibrel's reaction was one of disbelief. Why? Because it was real. The sloppiness & the surprise is the tell. If they had rehearsed it a few times it would've been a clean, Rocky-esque shot. If they hadn't rehearsed & they just both knew their actions, they both would've braced. Instead Aldrin lashed out & Bart was caught flat footed.

On top of all this, you now claim to know how these men "should've" reacted to a nut like Bart. You simply don't understand that when confronted with an audacious, obnoxious person, most people will be at a loss for words unless they feel threatened.

Watch a few episodes of "Punked". Celebrities & even pro athletes known for their aggression are faced with people like Sibrel & they tend to react similar to Aldrin. Only difference is, Ashton is a good enough judge to know when the line is near & stops it from getting out of hand.
 
Another point regarding the bogus Aldrin/Sibrel Love In Video.....

When the two love birds Aldrin and Sibrel get together for their staged little waltz;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsdJGonxoCE

note how just before the fake punch occurs, Aldrin takes something out of his pocket. Must be something to help him, someway , somehow with the fake blow. And GOD IS THAT THING EVER EVER EVER EVER so off the hook insanely FAKE FAKE FAKE......
 
I've always taken a keen (laymans) interest in all things "Space" if I can put it that way. Reading the content of this thread, especially that of the genuine experts in their various fields, has encouraged me to put my hand in my pocket and think about splashing out a little hard-earned on THIS 3 DVD SET. It's entitled "Apollo 13: The Real Story." Produced by Spacecraft Films.

In the blurb (on that page above) it lists.....


Spacecraft Films said:
Review Board Findings - Extensive detail of the findings of the review board and their recommendation for changes for continued flight, including film shot during oxygen tank testing to re-create the accident.


.....as part of the compilation. Looks very interesting.

Has anyone here seen this production? If so, do they recommend it?


Compus
 
Here's another issue of which I'd like to hear Jay Windley's analysis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhab86KoVjU

It seems that Mythbusters deliberately didn't show the moving flag on the moon coming to a stop when the astronaut stopped moving the pole and misled viewers into thinking that it came to a stop slowly when it had in fact come to a quick stop the way it would in atmosphere.

This video exposes their fraud.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7yc2rVOs00
 
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