The Incredible odds of fulfilled bible prophecy

TimCallahan said:
...Your continued evasiveness when confronted by specific arguments debunking your claims makes you look dishonest and brings disrepute to evangelical Christians in general.
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The best that can be said is that DOC's threads inspire posts from forum members who understand the subject.
 
DOC said:
This is conditional, if it would have said "And God said never again in the history of mankind will Zion be captured by the heathen" there could have been argument. But God is urging to awake awake, what does that mean; it is hard to say, it could mean to be alert, it could mean be more spiritual, we don't really know for sure with the translation. Another condition is clothe yourself with strength, what does that mean? Once again it is conditional. What if the people don't clothe themselves with strength and are sinful. Then the condition is not met and thus the promise is void.

Another explanation is some skeptics in here say these prophecies are for a certain time period. Well it could have meant that the invading uncircumcised armies would not enter Jerusalem again during the lifetime of those people in Jerusalem Isaiah was writing to. If a politician says "America, no additional taxes", he doesn't meant forever he means for a certain time period.

If 100 years from then the Jerusalem people started sinning again, then God needs to punish them again and possibly allow other armies to enter.

This is a somewhat difficult verse with the conditions added. The bible is a very big book written over thousands of years and originally in other languages. If you want to hunt for difficult verses you will be able to find some. But I see no outright failed prophecy for the 2 different reasons I have given.

Jesus tried to simplify things in Matthew 22: 36-40

Teacher, what is the most important commandment in the Law?"
Jesus answered:
Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind. This is the first and most important commandment. The second most important commandment is like this one. And it is, "Love others as much as you love yourself." All the Law of Moses and the Books of the Prophets are based on these two commandments.
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Just as a “point of order” - when you say (as you do above) that God said X and Jesus said Y ... you do not actually mean what you say there do you?

What you really mean is that ordinary religious Christian copyists once said that God and Jesus had said certain things. All you/we actually know is that those things were said by ordinary mortal men.

In fact we do not of course even know that!

Because all of those words come not from anyone claiming to have been a personal eye-witness to anything that Jesus or God may have ever said or done, but instead the words come from Christian copyists writing several centuries after the hypothetical gospel writers named as people like Mark, Mathew, Luke and John (and Paul, for that matter) were supposed to have lived and died (though we do not afaik actually have any evidence that any of those original gospel writers even ever existed anyway).

The point I'm making to you is just to explain how absurd it sounds to non-religious people when Christians say "God said X and Jesus said Y" - it's absurd because the truth is that those things are only actually known to be said by ordinary mortal men ... not known to be said by anyone called "Jesus" or God.
 
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IanS said:
Just as a “point of order” - when you say (as you do above) that God said X and Jesus said Y ... you do not actually mean what you say there do you?
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Yes he does, sadly. Next time he ventures out of the Cave of Fallacies he'll no doubt offer you a link to one of the comedy threads in which he'll claim you can find evidence for the truthiness of the Bible's authors.

If you've got a taste for train wrecks and a rainy weekend to fill in you might just enjoy having a read but whatever you do, don't get your heart set on finding any actual evidence.
 
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Fast Eddie B said:
I made it into town today and stopped to take a picture:

[qimg]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7200/6929075673_740e3d0215_b.jpg[/qimg]

If DOC ever makes it to the N GA mountains, have I got the church for him!
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Is that shack in the background supposed to be a church?
 
DOC: What's the meaning of "soon" in this passage (Rev. 1:1, emphasis added):

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place; and he made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, . . .
 
TimCallahan said:
DOC: What's the meaning of "soon" in this passage (Rev. 1:1, emphasis added):

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place; and he made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, . . .
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There's the normal, sane soon and then there's the biblical soon which means anytime in the next few million years.
 
Rincewind said:
Yes - I can see how that would of driven you completely nuts....
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That was very naughty. Because I'm kind and lenient, I will give you a choice of punishments: you may write (by hand) "'Of' is not a verb" 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000...( I'll stop there but the 1 should be followed by 2000 zeros) times, or you may reread both "Evidence" threads in the History forum and write an essay analyzing the best evidence offered. I will expect to see your work on my desk by 9:00 a.m. tomorrow.
 
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Rincewind said:
Yes - I can see how that would of driven you completely nuts....
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Lucian said:
That was very naughty. Because I'm kind and lenient, I will give you a choice of punishments: you may write (by hand) "'Of' is not a verb" 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000...( I'll stop there but the 1 should be followed by 2000 zeros) times, or you may reread both "Evidence" threads in the History forum and write an essay analyzing the best evidence offered. I will expect to see you work on my desk by 9:00 a.m. tomorrow.
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<returns from
:crazy:>


<long enough for
:bigclap>


<now back to
:crazy:>
 
Tim, my computer for some reason is not accessing the page where your original post was so I'll just copy it from another page.

Posted by TimCallahan

The spectacular record of failed prophecies:

Nineveh: Nahum, writing at a time when the Assyrian empire was disintegrating under the attacks of the Medes and Chaldeans , and after the Scythians had run amok through its territories, predictably prophesied the fall of Nineveh.

He says (Nah. 1:8): But with an overflowing flood [God] will make an end of his adversaries.

DOC said:
Although you sound confident and assured, you're making assumptions that aren't in the text. You seem to be implying that a flood destroyed Nineveh. But Nah. 1:8 is just part of an opening segment which includes Nah 1:1 to Nah 1:10. Nahum, in these verses is just making a general statement (not specific to Nineveh) about what God does to his enemies. He also talks of earthquakes and fires and drought.
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Nahum 2:6 says: The river gates are opened. The palace is in dismay.

These words have been taken by fundamentalist apologists as meaning that the Tigris river overflowed, undercutting part of the walls of Nineveh, which which collapsed.

DOC said:
Whoever these fundamental apologists are, I see nothing like that in Nuhum. Nahum 2:6

Here is how my Today's English Version Bible translates 2:6

"The gates by the river burst open: the palace is filled with terror.
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The Medes and Chaldeans poured in the gap.Thinking that his city was impregnable, King Sardanapalus was feasting and drinking. Thus, the Assyrians were caught by surprise and utterly destroyed. Sardanapalus had his horses and concubines killed on his funeral pyre where he sat resigned and was burned to death.

None of this is true....

DOC said:
Where did you get the above paragraph from, I don't see it in the bible.

I'll get to your other verses as time permits.
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DOC said:
Tim, my computer for some reason is not accessing the page where your original post was so I'll just copy it from another page.

Posted by TimCallahan

The spectacular record of failed prophecies:

Nineveh: Nahum, writing at a time when the Assyrian empire was disintegrating under the attacks of the Medes and Chaldeans , and after the Scythians had run amok through its territories, predictably prophesied the fall of Nineveh.

He says (Nah. 1:8): But with an overflowing flood [God] will make an end of his adversaries.



Nahum 2:6 says: The river gates are opened. The palace is in dismay.

These words have been taken by fundamentalist apologists as meaning that the Tigris river overflowed, undercutting part of the walls of Nineveh, which which collapsed.



The Medes and Chaldeans poured in the gap.Thinking that his city was impregnable, King Sardanapalus was feasting and drinking. Thus, the Assyrians were caught by surprise and utterly destroyed. Sardanapalus had his horses and concubines killed on his funeral pyre where he sat resigned and was burned to death.

None of this is true....
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You will do anything except address the many failed prophecies.
 
DOC: I was having difficulty quoting your post. So, I just copied this section:

Whoever these fundamental apologists are, I see nothing like that in Nuhum. Nahum 2:6

Here is how my Today's English Version Bible translates 2:6

"The gates by the river burst open: the palace is filled with terror.

DOC: Whether it's "the river gates" or "the gates by the river" it makes little difference. The Medes and Chaldeans broke in by the Halzi Gate, on of the few gates to Nineveh not on a river.
 
One more thing, DOC: You said "Whoever these fundamental apologists are, I see nothing like that in Nuhum. Nahum 2:6."

One of these fundamentalist apologists is Josh McDowell in chapters 4 and 11 of his book, Evidence that Demands a Verdict.
 
TimCallahan said:
One more thing, DOC: You said "Whoever these fundamental apologists are, I see nothing like that in Nuhum. Nahum 2:6."

One of these fundamentalist apologists is Josh McDowell in chapters 4 and 11 of his book, Evidence that Demands a Verdict.
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Hey, that's a book that DOC has mentioned before and supposedly read....
 
dafydd said:
Is that shack in the background supposed to be a church?
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I'm from Georgia and that 'shack' would be a typical size for a church. You should have seen the look on my face when I moved to Kentucky and saw the size of churches here. Even the smaller ones are ginormous in comparison.
 
Mudcat said:
I'm from Georgia and that 'shack' would be a typical size for a church. You should have seen the look on my face when I moved to Kentucky and saw the size of churches here. Even the smaller ones are ginormous in comparison.
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Yup.
I pass 4 of them on a 1.5 mile stretch heading to work each day.
 
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