The Incredible odds of fulfilled bible prophecy

dafydd said:
Isaiah 52:1

"Awake, awake, O Zion, clothe yourself with strength. Put on your garments of splendor, O Jerusalem, the holy city. The uncircumcised and defiled will not enter you again."
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This is conditional, if it would have said "And God said never again in the history of mankind will Zion be captured by the heathen" there could have been argument. But God is urging to awake awake, what does that mean; it is hard to say, it could mean to be alert, it could mean be more spiritual, we don't really know for sure with the translation. Another condition is clothe yourself with strength, what does that mean? Once again it is conditional. What if the people don't clothe themselves with strength and are sinful. Then the condition is not met and thus the promise is void.

Another explanation is some skeptics in here say these prophecies are for a certain time period. Well it could have meant that the invading uncircumcised armies would not enter Jerusalem again during the lifetime of those people in Jerusalem Isaiah was writing to. If a politician says "America, no additional taxes", he doesn't meant forever he means for a certain time period.

If 100 years from then the Jerusalem people started sinning again, then God needs to punish them again and possibly allow other armies to enter.

This is a somewhat difficult verse with the conditions added. The bible is a very big book written over thousands of years and originally in other languages. If you want to hunt for difficult verses you will be able to find some. But I see no outright failed prophecy for the 2 different reasons I have given.

Jesus tried to simplify things in Matthew 22: 36-40

Teacher, what is the most important commandment in the Law?"
Jesus answered:
Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind. This is the first and most important commandment. The second most important commandment is like this one. And it is, "Love others as much as you love yourself." All the Law of Moses and the Books of the Prophets are based on these two commandments.
 
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DOC said:
This is conditional, if it would have said "And God said never again in the history of mankind will Zion be captured" there could have been argument.
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That is what it says. It was wrong.

ie. A failed prophecy.


DOC said:
But God is urging to awake awake, what does that mean; it is hard to say, it could mean to be alert, it could mean be more spiritual, we don't really know for sure with the translation.
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We???


DOC said:
Another condition is clothe yourself with strength, what does that mean? Once again it is conditional. What if the people don't clothe themselves with strength and are sinful. Then the condition is not met and thus the promise is void.
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You certainly do take special pleading to dizzying new heights.


DOC said:
<drivel>

But I see no outright failed prophecy for the 2 different reasons I have given.
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"Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not."

That verse was written for you, DOC.
 
DOC said:
This is conditional.
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No it's not. "Awake, awake, O Zion, clothe yourself with strength. Put on your garments of splendor, O Jerusalem, the holy city. The uncircumcised and defiled will not enter you again." They have been entering ever since. Remember the ninth commandment.
 
dafydd said:
And the males are not subjected to penis examinations. Failed prophecy.
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The last time I have heard off were the US checking all sailors for STD`s before being allowed ashore.

The practice were stopped quite suddenly after the French decided to apply the same procedure to the passengers of a US cruise liner. :D
 
DOC said:
This is conditional, if it would have said "And God said never again in the history of mankind will Zion be captured by the heathen" there could have been argument. But God is urging to awake awake, what does that mean; it is hard to say, it could mean to be alert, it could mean be more spiritual, we don't really know for sure with the translation. Another condition is clothe yourself with strength, what does that mean? Once again it is conditional. What if the people don't clothe themselves with strength and are sinful. Then the condition is not met and thus the promise is void.

Another explanation is some skeptics in here say these prophecies are for a certain time period. Well it could have meant that the invading uncircumcised armies would not enter Jerusalem again during the lifetime of those people in Jerusalem Isaiah was writing to. If a politician says "America, no additional taxes", he doesn't meant forever he means for a certain time period.

If 100 years from then the Jerusalem people started sinning again, then God needs to punish them again and possibly allow other armies to enter.

This is a somewhat difficult verse with the conditions added. The bible is a very big book written over thousands of years and originally in other languages. If you want to hunt for difficult verses you will be able to find some. But I see no outright failed prophecy for the 2 different reasons I have given.
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That's a whole lot of If's and could's and I don't really knows.
Who do you think you are convincing with such wishy-washyness?


After such a non-commital, confused analysis, you have helped lend support to the fact that the bible doesn't actually provide any useful reliable guidance of anything, let alone morality.

DOC said:
Jesus tried to simplify things in Matthew 22: 36-40

Teacher, what is the most important commandment in the Law?"
Jesus answered:
Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind. This is the first and most important commandment. The second most important commandment is like this one. And it is, "Love others as much as you love yourself." All the Law of Moses and the Books of the Prophets are based on these two commandments.
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I don't believe you actually believe this.

I'll test that theory now:
Do you believe homosexuals should be allowed to love and live and be married?
 
DOC said:
Teacher, what is the most important commandment in the Law?"
Jesus answered:
Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind. This is the first and most important commandment. The second most important commandment is like this one. And it is, "Love others as much as you love yourself." All the Law of Moses and the Books of the Prophets are based on these two commandments.
Click to expand...



So the law that says that we should stone a recalcitrant child to death is based on loving others as we love ourselves?

The law that we should stone a girl to death because she is not a virgin is based in loving others?

So the commandments to massacre the Medianites and rape their little girls is based on LOVE?

When Moses ordered the killing of a man because he picked up some twigs on Saturday he was applying that amazing commandment of loving others?

Are the orders to massacre entire cities because they occupy a land Moses coveted based on that amazing empathy?

When David ordered the killing of his own son and when he committed adultery and when he murdered Uriah.... it was all based on love?

When Joshua massacres entire cities it was love?

When Ezra orders people to divorce their wives and disown their children from them because they were not Jews...he was being all adoring and cute?

Psalm 109 is all about love and cuteness and forgiveness and empathy?

Is dashing children's brains on rocks by the river of Babylon wishful thinking based on loving others as one loves oneself?

When Jesus threatens entire cities with utter destruction ala Sodom because they did not fall for his claptrap, was he applying this Love principle?

When Jesus promises ETERNAL TORTURE to people who do not believe HIS BLASPHEMY according to the OTHER LAWS OF MOSES, was he Loving everyone?

When Jesus went around maligning and execrating Jews as vipers and killers of prophets, he was being all lovey dovey?

It is impossible for a person to say the highlighted part of your post unless
  • He has never read the bible
  • Has read it but is either
    • an Imbecile
    • a repugnantly immoral poltroon

So DOC..... have you read the Bible?
 
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^^^
That.

And also:
DOC said:
This is conditional, if it would have said "And God said never again in the history of mankind will Zion be captured by the heathen" there could have been argument. But God is urging to awake awake, what does that mean; it is hard to say, it could mean to be alert, it could mean be more spiritual, we don't really know for sure with the translation. ....
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DOC, is the bible inerrant or not?
 
I made it into town today and stopped to take a picture:

6929075673_740e3d0215_b.jpg


If DOC ever makes it to the N GA mountains, have I got the church for him!
 
DOC said:
dafydd said:
Isaiah 52:1

"Awake, awake, O Zion, clothe yourself with strength. Put on your garments of splendor, O Jerusalem, the holy city. The uncircumcised and defiled will not enter you again."
Click to expand...

This is conditional,
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When discussing language, "conditional" has a real, specific meaning. See here. Also take a look at the subjunctive. The quoted passage from Isaiah is not in the conditional nor the subjunctive mood.

DOC said:
if it would have said "And God said never again in the history of mankind will Zion be captured by the heathen" there could have been argument.
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This is conditional.
 
DOC said:
Posted by TimCallahan

It's in the post: Isaiah 20:4. Here it is again; note the emphasis:

. . . so shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians captives and the Ethiopians exiles, both young and old, naked and bare foot, with buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.

The time frame is determined by history, as I already pointed out. The capitol of the Assyrian Empire, Nineveh, fell in 612 BCE. Thus, the prophecies against Egypt in Isaiah 19 and 20 referred to that time. Read my post again. You obviously missed a lot the first time through.

Explain how it is impossible to have happened with sources.
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Explain to me precisely what you are asking. Here's a translation of a tablet referring to the fall of Nineveh.
 
Fast Eddie B said:
I made it into town today and stopped to take a picture:

[qimg]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7200/6929075673_740e3d0215_b.jpg[/qimg]

If DOC ever makes it to the N GA mountains, have I got the church for him!
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Looks like a tombstone. And how fitting it would be.
 
I am in no way, shape, or form, an expert on the Bible. When were these prophesies made? I know they weren't written down til long after events transpired, kind of soiling the whole prophesy bit.

As to the DOC thread over in the History, etc. forum, I will paraphrase Mark Twain: If it wasn't for all the Sir Ramseys, the Bible says so, and the other dozen or so "arguments", it would be a short thread indeed.
 
TimCallahan said:
Explain to me precisely what you are asking. Here's a translation of a tablet referring to the fall of Nineveh.
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Also, DOC, go here for a history of Asshurbanipul's dealings with Egypt. You might also look up Ancient Near Eastern Texts, edited by Pritchard, a compilation of the best translations of preserved documents from the ancient Near East.

Now, how about answering my specific questions about the failed prophecies concerning Nineveh, Babylon, Tyre and Egypt, particularly in the last case, Nebuchadrezzar's failure to conquer Egypt.

Your continued evasiveness when confronted by specific arguments debunking your claims makes you look dishonest and brings disrepute to evangelical Christians in general.
 
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