Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga

[Loss Leader]

I am a physician

No, you are not.

Please stop lying about this.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Could you please site the specific post or the EXPERIMENTS THEMSELVES wherein my point about there being no Cortright Commission experiments done in support of their claim that aluminum may have served as a fuel in the simulated pretended, robotically mimed, jive infested cislunar green screened Apollo 13 explosion. Thanks.......

I ask this as I am working on the aluminum as fuel for explosion issue now, and seemed to have missed my colleagues' references showing me that I may have started off on the wrong foot there........

Thanks again, being shown where it is that one has made an error so one can correct it and move on all the more vigorously is ever so flat out swell............

Links were posted to PDF Documents that detailed all the experiments carried out.

 

[AdMan]

A new idea of mine that I am now toying with by way of my own "green screening", they may have used sophisticated "green screen" techniques to create these "illusions". Worth playing around with anyway.

Keep toying with that idea, Patrick, and let's hear what you come up with.

As someone who knows more than a little about filmmaking and special effects, I can't wait to be dazzled by your brilliance on this topic.


Oh, and Patrick, just a reminder--no one believes you, and it's long been time to put up or shut up.

 

[Erock]

Erock totally nailed me on that point AdMan, and credit to him where credit is due. He got me good. I appreciate Erock's talent in this debate, what he brings to it, very much. But so what as well? Erock's most excellent point does not invalidate LOST BIRD and I move on now with this fact that Erock helped me to learn.

As I mentioned previously, every mistake I have made here has lead to something helpful for me, for MY SIDE. The best case in point has been the Julian Coordinate thing leading to the truth with regard to the Department of Defense Map Makers creating the fraudulently marked LAM-2 flown map of Michael Collins and the fraudulent approach map as well. This has been by far my biggest win by way of learning from a mistake, though I am sure there will be others, all the bigger as I go along.

Yeah, I nailed you on this point. Meanwhile Matt and Jay and many others have nailed you completely on hundreds of other things.

The only difference is with my point it was in your face obvious, the other points need you to go away and aquire understanding. That ain't gonna happen, so your safety in ignorance stands.

Your whole 'Apollo 11 long' reason was for military purpose to hide the LRRR, from whom? Why, the general public and not the Soviets?! Absolutely anybody could freely access the Apollo mission reports a short while after the mission. Rejected.

Apollo 10/11 map contentions are just sheer ignorance on your part. For god's sake, the points you made about Julian dates, missing I and O from the indices, your lack of understanding about datums, the comparison with other images clearly different. Rejected.

Apollo 8, they 'invented' an illness to make it more plausible? Then despite him feeling better after 24 hrs, and you having no knowledge of the consult or exchanges, you flannel on about flu?? Rejected.

Apollo 12 lightning strike. Torn to shreds by Jay.

Apollo 13. All of it. Really, Jay has torn your argument to shreds.

Meeting with the 'perps' - afraid much? Put up or shut up.

Please don't insult everybody's intelligence by insisting you have acknowledged and learnt from your mistakes. You haven't acknowledged 95% of them at all - just ignored, the other 5% you represent as stuff you have learnt, without any concession to the poster who educated you accordingly, and certainly without acknowledging your original error!

Now kindly answer my last post concerning Michael Collins in space.

 

[Philth53]

Some people, including Apollo personnel, agreed to talk with someone about "hoax" claims because a recognized expert (Jay) asked if they were interested.

Yes, and he will remain an anonymous nobody. He has already run away from the opportunity to confront real people at whom he has hurled puerile insults from the safety of his keyboard. All the posturing is simply a smokescreen; no one is going to come to him, and he knows it. This is because they are real engineers with real names, and he is just someone raving on a web forum under various sock-puppets, who has repeatedly lied and demonstrated he has no idea what he's talking about.

Presumably for the same reason as most of the participants in this thread - pointing and laughing.

Thank you for your answer.

I've seen his socks on BAUT. I hesitate to post there, mostly because I'm usually beaten to the punch my others much more educated than me.

I've lurked here, BAUT, and ApolloHoax.net, I've seen your and Jay's, among many others, intelligent replies to some people that, for some reason won't or can't face actual provable facts.

Sorry, but I still find it hard to believe that men such as Mr. Kranz would actually waste time with the likes of any HB, Patrick included. They have nothing to lose and nothing to gain, I doubt it's possible to change the mind of any HB'er.

Again, thank you.

Phil

 

[Jack by the hedge]

INFUENZA VACCINES ARE NOT ANYWHERE NEAR 100 PERCENT EFFICACIOUS/EFFECTIVE?

Who pray tell "crushed" that point? Site a specific post please....

I think you mean 'cite'.

Among others, how about post #7276? It doesn't say anything that hadn't already been said elsewhere, but it makes it plain that your point is a strawman argument.

Nobody claims vaccines are 100% effective. NASA does not claim vaccines are 100% effective. Berry does not claim vaccines are 100% effective. Only you claim he did, but you are wrong.

So your point is crushed by its own irrelevance.

 

[Tomblvd]

I am a physician that dealsL with INFUENZA and INFLUENZA related problems daily.....I have plenty of competence in this, not ot mention MANY other medical fields. My view THAT IT IS MOST DECIDEDLY NOT THE CASE, with regard to the claim of the Apollo program fraud perpetrating principals that INFLUENZA vaccines were/are 100% efficacius/effective would be validated by ANY qualified infectious disease specialist you happened to query on the subject.

And was something you did not know until I pointed it out in this thread.

Go ahead, prove me wrong. You can't go more than a few posts now without posting "NO VACCINE IS 100% EFFECTIVE!!!". Yet you never mentioned it until I said it.

That is pretty much how you've gained every piece of information here, you've poached it from other posters.

 

[Patrick1000]

Check this out FatFreddy, Green Screen/Blue Screen invented in 1930s

I've shown the footage to a few people and they all immediately said, "That's in gravity".
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8033032&postcount=1

This is such clear proof of a hoax it closes the whole case. In space there is no up or down and in that clip there's an obvious up and an obvious down.


There are plausible explanations for all of that "Evidence" that the missions were real and there's a ton of evidence that the missions were faked.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144487

If just one case of clear proof of a hoax appears, all of your "Evidence" that the missions were real falls by the wayside.


Common sense says that an object moving in zero-G will not stop moving and change directions unless a force makes that happen. In the footage of Collins' jacket corner bouncing up and down there's no identifiable force making it stop going up and go back down except for gravity. Compare it to the footage of the straps in the other video.


When the fabric bounces, it folds. Fabric that's stiff enough to push something down would not fold. The movements are not just horizontal. There are up and down movements that could not happen in zero-G.


No I don't. I want you to give your analysis of the anomaly. This is a perfectly legitimate Apollo-related request. You're the webmaster of the Clavius site.
http://www.clavius.org/

There's no reason for you to refuse to address this.


That object is not moving in a way that would make the corner stop going upward and go back down. The corners of the jacket in the earth footage are moving the same way and there's no large objectd banging his chest.


It just looks loose to me. We can't see what's under it. What does this have to do with the way the corner moves? I can't see any relevance.


In a diving plane zero-G can be simulated for about twenty five seconds if I remember correctly. The theory is that they were going up and diving down repeatedly to get enough fake footage. If there's some footage that shows gravity, it means they got careless and left that footage in during the editing.


You're misrepresenting what happened there.
http://www.politicalforum.com/moon-landing/190138-apollo-moon-missions-were-faked-studio-5.html

Betamax destroyed his credibility by trying to obfuscate the clear proof that the Chinese spacewalk was faked in a water tank. That it was faked in a water tank is so clear that the issue makes a good objectivity test. Once it's clear that a poster isn't debating in good faith, there's no point in continuing.



It doesn't take any special qualifiactions to recognize the effects of strong gravity and know that would be impossible halfway between the earth and moon.

Check this out FatFreddy, Green Screen/Blue Screen invented in 1930s....

More likely than not, you are on to something major there my friend, major with regard to the Collins running in "it ain't so" bogus zero G. At least that may prove to be the case. May be a bit difficult to demonstrate the dude/Collins ain't in free fall, but once you do FatFreddy, you will be home free BIG TIME. Apollo solved, courtesy of you....

Don't give up, don't be intimidated, you are on to something there.....

Check this out, may be relevant....

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080504173305AADjTv9

 

[JayUtah]

With respect to the Cortright Report, it is no exaggeration that only high school chemistry is needed to prove ALL OF APOLLO INSANELY FAKE AND CERTIFIABLY SO. I invite you to provide...

No. The Cortright report has been accepted as valid and complete within the relevant industry for decades. If you are now claiming it to be invalid, the burden of proof is on you and no one else. Vague references to "high school chemistry" will not suffice. You are a minority of one contesting the concerted opinion of an entire licensed profession. Your standard of proof is necessary very, very high and no one but you is answerable here.

 

[Patrick1000]

Here's an interesting thought about Apollo moonscape shots and Chromakey....

Not infrequently one hears Apollo photo critics make the suggestion that the lighting of the astronauts in the moonscape shots must be staged lighting as there seems to be evidence for the employment of "filler light" in these shots.

Take a look at this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_WdLkaOUic&feature=pyv&ad=7060701043&kw=chromakey

It may turn out to be the case that filler light was used because Chromakey techniques were employed, and a good result, as one can see here in viewing this video, is dependent on the judicious employment of filler light.

From astronauts floating in a simulated command module with their spoons whirling in "mid air" and water beading, to astronauts being photographed on a simulated lunar surface, chromakey techniques, understanding these in detail, the possibilities and the limitations, may prove to provide a huge dividend in the further exploration of Apollo fraudulence and the methods employed in the perpetrators fooling us, fooling us TEMPORARILY that is.......

I'll keep the interested posted on my progress.

 

[Patrick1000]

An insanely interesting point about the role of Chromakey.....

I am a long wys from showing that chromakey techniques were involved/utilized in the creation of the fraudulent Apollo videos and photos. But there now does appear to be an excellent chance that such is the case. It would explain a million things, right off the bat.

Say I show this to be the case, or a colleague does, another Apollo historian. That would mean that people like Jack White, and some of the other main stream photo experts ostensibly "critical" of Apollo, ostensibly fraud advocates, would be shown to be nothing of the kind, thespians as well they would be shown to be, members part of the renown Apollo Shakespeare Company no less.

The reason being is that green screen stuff, chromakey stuff, is so mainscreen, any photo expert would think of it right away were there evidence for it. So if a non expert like myself or a bona fide photo/video professional shows that indeed there is evidence for the employment of chromakey techniques in the Apollo photos and videos, well then not only is Apollo shown to be fraudulent, but several dozen photo specialist rats will have been smoked out as well and identified as perpetrators.



Jack White himself may be one, FASCINATING!!!!!!!!!!.......


http://www.aulis.com/jackstudies_index1.html

OH cruel FATE..........

 

[SUSpilot]

In that case, how about Sy Liebergot's appearance at the WorldCon in Chicago? That would seem to have all your requirements; neutral venue, personal confrontation, no evasions . . .

Not only that, you don't even have to give up your precious anonymity. You can get a name badge that says "Patrick1000" and no one will care. You can wear a Darth Vader helmet (so the crack NASA ninja assassin team won't "make" you, vibrate through the walls of your residence, and stop your heart with their ancient martial arts kana) and no one will care.

You can make your points; and no one will . . . well, whatever.

How about it?

Y'know, I grew up in the Chicago area, and my brother lives on North Lake Shore Drive. I never get to see him enough. If Patrick had the courage to show up at World Con, the opportunity to watch the show might be a good excuse to take a few vacation days...

 

[W.D.Clinger]

Patrick, watching you flail away reminds me of why I'm not really into NASCAR: you keep going around and around, but you don't go anywhere...

NASCAR doesn't crash so spectacularly or so often.

I am a physician

Unlikely.

I have plenty of competence

Undemonstrated.

With respect to the Cortright Report, it is no exaggeration that only high school chemistry is needed

It's not an exaggeration so much as a lie.

to prove ALL OF APOLLO INSANELY FAKE AND CERTIFIABLY SO.

Insanely fake and certifiably so?

You should ask a doctor about psychological projection^WP.

 

[LongFuzzy]

I'm really puzzled by this whole thread. You seem to believe that you've uncovered a huge conspiracy, but what do you do? You go to a web forum to spout your theory. This really makes no sense. What do you hope to achieve here? All I've seen is that after months of effort, with many, many walls of text from you, you appear to have convinced approximately zero people.

Can you enlighten me as to why you're here, please, Patrick? I'm genuinely curious.

BTW - how did you meeting with the NASA experts go?

Oh, right....

He is posting to get a response. Any response.

http://www.last-word.com/content_handling/show_tree/tree_id/4829.html

Dr. Tea posts his opening 'Lost Bird' Wall-O-Text, but got zero replies, so he dropped that web site. But over at Apollo Hoax and BAUT, he got replies. But since the rules over there require that he respond to critics, and not create puppets, he eventually got banned. But here at JREF, he does not have to answer critics. As long as he follows the rules, he can continue to post garbage. And as long as he gets replies, he will continue to post garbage. It's all about the interaction he craves. Notice he does not post at conspiracy web sites. He would not get to have the interaction with the experts he so desires. The name of one of his latest puppets really explains it: forthethrillofital . That is why he is doing this: 'For the thrill of it' He will gain nothing, which is unfortunate, because there is so much great info being posted.
-LF

 

[realpaladin]

"If I lived in China... I would have Chinese children... if I lived in China..."

@Patrick1000 Please tell me how the hi-res Chinese scans of the moon fit in. Did the Americans quickly pop back to make all the tracks that they said they did so the Chinese did not find anything at fault?

 

[Patrick1000]

Proof that Sibrel is an Apollo Program Apologist, not to mention a fraud perp.....

Here is proof that the famous "punching scene", Aldrin's punching Sibrel, was staged.

Go to;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUFO8AGMwic

Slow the punching scene down to half speed. If you can't do this, look for my post tomorrow in which I 'll provide a video wherein I've slowed the speed for you. Start and stop video so that you can hear when the words are coming, at what points in time the words occur, and ask yourself if they match the events, the action, the punching.

They do not. Sibrel is punched right after he says "liar" and before he says "and a thief". Were this real, he could not have gotten those words out, "and a thief". He was hit way too hard, way way way to hard. Well now one knows for a fact that this all was/is staged, so he was actually pretended to have been hit very hard by Aldrin.

Note Aldrin's step-daughter in the yellow/brown, her positioning helps to set/stage the scene.

Sibrel has his back turned because he cannot really be hit like this. He is a fraud perpetrator. Were he facing forward, toward the camera, it would be obvious this was fraudulent.

So, the only way they can do this is to dub Sibrel's words after the scene is filmed.

Patently fraudulent this clip. More details on it to follow.

Great find. Sibrel is a perp. The Sibrel scenes with the astronauts, all of them from A as in Armstrong to Y as in Young are staged.

This rocket done blowed up........

 

[Patrick1000]

This is what Aldrin and Sibrel did......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G7Zrr_hju4&feature=BFa&list=SP1B9ED82D01F32690&lf=list_related

It's not like the full blown moon landing con, but even this stuff upsets me because it is connected to the Apollo fraud itself. I cannot stand when someone tries to game me like this. What contempt these people have for the American public. They will not go to jail, but they should. They should lock Sibrel and Armstrong in the SAME CELL for 30 years. Good and absolutely JUST! punishment for the both of them.


Make no mistake about this either. This is HARD evidence of Apollo Program fraudulence. Right here one notes/determines with absolute unmitigated metaphysical certitude that Sibrel is an Apollo fraud accomplice. There is NO REASON FOR SIBREL TO PRETEND TO PUNCH ALDRIN UNLESS THIS IS THE CASE. APOLLO IS FRAUDULENT. ABSOLUTELY NO OTHER REASON TO ATTEMPT THIS PHONY PUNCH JIVE INFESTED SCAM, A SCAM NOW REVEALED. THIS IS ANOTHER SENSATIONAL FIND, AND ONE EVERYONE IN THE COMMUNITY CAN UNDERSTAND, NO ADVANCED DEGREE REQUIRED.

In a way, this is very telling. Insanely sloppy and desperate to stage these encounters with the Apollo astronauts and this absolute buffoon of an accomplice, Sibrel.

The staging is so extraordinary and obviously contrived. The step-daughter walking away and not even attending to here step father. I presume this was done to allow for good visibility, so one could see Aldrin well after the fake/canned blow to the face.

The timing is not bad. I imagine they practiced this quite a bit, though Sibrel does overreact, moves way too much.

Anyway, this is a REAL BAD ONE. They may want to debate me now after all, things getting worse by the day as they are, one revelation after the next you know...... Some of those clowns may be thinking, "He's all over this, DrPat, Patrick1000, every aspect of our scam, maybe we SHOULD debate him after all. Everything to lose? Not any more, we gots nothing to lose now boys, things have gotten so bad with this Sibrel revelation".

And to be honest, at this point, I could not agree more. This thing is getting all the more pathetic for the opposing side by the nanosecond.

Neil, Buzz, Mike, you con men out there? Ready for a debate, perhaps a confession. Not a bad idea, the latter, the "confession angle", given your ages and all. PM me either way if you boys want to chat. It won't spare you any further embarrassment, but you may rest/sleep a tad bit better. Worth a shot anyway, the old scamming techniques sure ain't working no more no more no more, now are they??????

This spaceship done blowed up.......

 

[Patrick1000]

Another thing I just discovered....

If one goes to you tube and looks at various "Sibrel gets punched by Aldrin videos", the timing seems to vary. As best I can tell, someone may have "caught on" and posted some that are doctored a bit. I need to look again more carefully, but it would seem the dialog dubbing begins differently in some so the awkward timing/bad timing, of the punch is better hidden/fixed in a sense..

No matter really. Now that I have studied it some, one can easily spot it as fake. The staging with Sibrel's back to us. Aldrin's step daughter looking outward for the cue as to when it will begin and stepping away surprisingly, to provide visibility of the deed and her step-father.

Like I said, FASCINATING.......

 

[Patrick1000]

The Sibrel gets punched out videos are off the hook interesting....

The Sibrel gets punched out YouTube videos are off the hook interesting...

So now what I am finding is that as previously mentioned, the sound/voice timing, the point at which it starts with respect to the punching activity varies, presumably someone figured out the timing was off in some of these, and tried clumsily to correct it.

More significantly, if one loads at least some of these YouTube clips into Premiere Elements and goes through the video frame by frame by frame, one finds some frames are "left out", the video action stalls with frames repeated, presumably to improve sound/action timing.

Additionally, I have discovered that Sibrel reacts late. If one goes through this thing frame by frame, Aldrin's fist is at Sibrel's face, then essentially a freeze frame there, no movement of Sibrel, despite advancement by a frame, so the editor is showing us THE SAME FRAME! despite the digital advancement. The "new" frame is identical with the previous and shows no movement in time and so betrays the film/video as certifiably fraudulent/manufactured and certifies Sibrel as an Apollo fraud perp.

This intentional time manipulation by way of editing reflects the effort to coordinate this thing, the voice/sound dubbing with the punch, with the action. Sibrel did not say the "......liar and a thief line...." in Real-Time. It was added. It is an edit, a sound edit.

I have a copy of Sibrel's "own" dvd from whence all this nonsense derives, ASTRONAUTS GONE WILD, the dvd Sibrel sells himself on line. It will be interesting to see what the timing is like on Sibrel's own video.

Note the woman that walks in front of the camera just before the punch is thrown. She may not even be there "in real life". She could be a superposition, but whatever, her role is contrived and she is nothing less than a definite and very very very intentional distraction.

Note how Aldrin's step-daughter(yellow/brown clothes) looks out at us for her cues/clues of/for action/activity.

Crazy this stuff, like a bad spy movie. What incompetents!

 

[frenat]

I would welcome the opportunity to debate the perps in person...I do not believe that is what Jay is offering here however nomuse, a public debate on neutral turf with a neutral moderator with Kranz, Schiesser, Lovell, whoever. Jay is not offering that. If he is, he can ask the players so named to contact me here and I will deal with them directly.

Kranz is more than welcome to simply PM me here. If he wanted, if Lovell was willing to debate me, it would be a relatively straightforward thing to work out, ditto for Aaron, Schiesser, or any of the other players. We could go back and forth, work out something, an event, at a neutral public forum with a neutral moderator. Seems simple to set something up. If people wanted to watch, we could split the audience 50/50, you guys on one side and I'll bring some docs, surfers, swimmers and FatFreddy to boot on the other. He can help me with the pics if he is so inclined and qualified. Perhaps he'll have proven by then Collins ain't in free fall in that PHONY jogging scene.

My sense about this debate business is that they, the so named fraud perpetrators, would not debate, even if Apollo were real, which it is not, but even were it true, the Apollo fraud principals would have EVERYTHING TO LOSE AND NOTHING TO GAIN in a debate with me. That said, because Apollo is fraudulent , they would get their rumps handed to them. What is Borman going to say to me when I show him that idiotic LOOK/LIFE article HE WROTE, "I don't remember writing that Pat.... I never took a second seconal Pat, must be some kinda' mistake Pat". The ONLY reason for writing that jive infested BULL as Borman did, the ONLY explanation, is that Apollo was/is fraudulent. There cans be no other explanation and Borman knows it. He would not want his bad acting exposed in such an acutely public fashion, nailed in front of EVERYBODY then and there with no where to hide because HE WROTE THE BULL HIMSELF.. No one has ever confronted him, any of these guys for that matter, with this kind of EVIDENCE. BORMAN WROTE IT HIMSELF. HE LIED. What would Borman say, "what about the photos Pat?"

HARD COPIES of the magazines articles, the May 1969 National Geographic article written by PHILLIPS HIMSELF!, . WHAT WOULD HE SAY? This is what I mean, EVERYTHING TO LOSE AND NOTHING TO GAIN. And if they brought a doc to attempt a countering of my unimpeachable evidence and incontrovertible FACTS as regards the medical issues, well the simple TRUTH is on my side and the doc, regardless of training, would be cut to ribbons. He would/she would probably walk off the platform babbling in a state of dizzied agreement, agreement with ME.

The whole notion of a debate is ridiculous for this reason. Prove me wrong if you can, tell Collins I called him and indeed think him a twit that stole our money and could not navigate his way out of a paper air distress bag. Collins would be scared to death of me and my LAM-2 Map claims. And he is NOT SMART and knows it. He won't debate me. Prove me wrong, tell him to PM me; the surfer dudes, docs and swimmers to the right, and you guys to the left. Collins would be risking the world. Have 'em PM me, all of them, any of them. Clowns......

Tell Schiesser I know the MAPS are fake and want to debate him, TELL HIM!!! I'll dope slap that BOZO sorry excuse for a mathematician(figuratively speaking of course) two solar systems over. These people are not so bright nomuse, keep that in mind. If one can say anything about the astronauts and their stage hands, paucity of intellect is the rule and not the exception and common sense among that lot is scarce as hens teeth in the lunar powder of a GENUINE on site Mare Tranquilatis crater. These guys would probably not even realize what was happening. About all they would have to say would be "but what about the photos and rocks Pat?"

If Jay is so well connected, he can ask these public enemies, these CRIMINALS, to PM me here, and I could do the same, PM them back. We could set something up no problem. After all, it is my red white and blue patriotic duty to nail them if they want to risk a public debate.

My willingness is by no means an obstacle to a debate nomuse. You don't think I'd want to debate Kranz? I thought you guys thought I was egotistical. How would that play at the hospital, Dr, Pat debated Gene Kranz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Dr. Pat debated senile James Lovell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It would be off the hook cool, mopping cislunar space LIVE with Kranz's sorry pathetic white vest,,,,,,,I would I would.

Jay, ask Lovell to PM me here, ditto for Schisser, Kranz. And get Borman too, I want to ask him about his cislunar seconal popping.

What part of it is time for you to stop hiding behind an anonymous forum do you not understand?