The Incredible odds of fulfilled bible prophecy

[dafydd]

That's a rhetorical question, right?

One lives in hope. The prophecy has obviously failed, a five year old child could see that.

 

[Gao]

But neither does it say that the 120 is going to be a freakishly extraordinary occurrence for a couple of people among billions who have had the benefit of modern science and technology to keep them alive and "healthy" and able to be fed and warmed and medicated and AIDED by all the advantages of modern science.

The implication … if anyone with a modicum of honesty and without his head bent all the way around to contemplate his own rectum so as not to see the problems in the Bible...is that most people would live to 120 and that would be easily achieved.

I never thought I'd say this, but I actually have to defend DOC a little here. When trying to interpret an ancient text, if you come up with an interpretation that would have been blatantly false to both the author and his immediate audience, you probably aren't interpreting it correctly. People at the time would have known that this to be far from the human average, so the author probably intended this to be an upper limit, and perhaps a rough one at that. I believe the Romans actually thought of the age 120 similarly, and I can double check that if anyone wants.

 

[welshdean]

ETA:
Happy Birthday, Akhenaten!
I hope you receive your full 120 allotment!

Take a look at his profile photo, it appears he is very, very close to that goal.

Genesis 6:3

And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years





The verse doesn't say anything about "average", that is your interjection.

The verse you brought in, and the King James version, doesn't use the word Nile. But even if it did, human history is not over and things don't look good for the Nile these days.

http://www.greenprophet.com/2010/08/egypt-water-protest/

http://news.mongabay.com/2006/1213-nasa_water.html

___

Also in Isaiah Chapter 19 vs. 2 it says this:

"And I will set the Egyptians against the Egyptians: and they shall fight every one against his brother..."

Sounds like recent CNN reports.

Your lies and deceit are creating a foul stench DOC, shame on you. The feotid malodouresness may be pleasing to your god, but not us here. How can you ever hope to contribute to any debate, discussion or conversation with that kind of reasoning, repeated lieing and deliberate obfuscation?

It's in the post: Isaiah 20:4. Here it is again; note the emphasis:

. . . so shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians captives and the Ethiopians exiles, both young and old, naked and bare foot, with buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.

The time frame is determined by history, as I already pointed out. The capitol of the Assyrian Empire, Nineveh, fell in 612 BCE. Thus, the prophecies against Egypt in Isaiah 19 and 20 referred to that time. Read my post again. You obviously missed a lot the first time through.

Don't hold your breath Tim. By his own admission he hasn't read The Bible yet and as far as I can tell, the little bit he has read, he doesn't comprehend.

 

[welshdean]

I never thought I'd say this, but I actually have to defend DOC a little here. When trying to interpret an ancient text, if you come up with an interpretation that would have been blatantly false to both the author and his immediate audience, you probably aren't interpreting it correctly. People at the time would have known that this to be far from the human average, so the author probably intended this to be an upper limit, and perhaps a rough one at that. I believe the Romans actually thought of the age 120 similarly, and I can double check that if anyone wants.

Fair enough.


<Columbo mode>
Just one more question. If our interpretation could be so very, very poor and we would spend an eternity in Hell for getting it so very wrong, could we not expect the 'inerrant word of god' to be a little bit frickking clearer for chrissakes.
</Columbo mode>

 

[Rincewind]

Six limbs?Some kind of ant/chicken hybrid? We could solve world hunger (for fried chicken) if you could cross that chicken with a millipede.

Don't you cross chickens with roads?

Or was that the other way round?

 

[jsfisher]

Don't you cross chickens with roads?

Or was that the other way round?

That would be the Rhode Island Red.

 

[TimCallahan]

The spectacular record of failed prophecies:

Nineveh: Nahum, writing at a time when the Assyrian empire was disintegrating under the attacks of the Medes and Chaldeans , and after the Scythians had run amok through its territories, predictably prophesied the fall of Nineveh.

He says (Nah. 1:8): But with an overflowing flood [God] will make an end of his adversaries.

Nahum 2:6 says: The river gates are opened. The palace is in dismay.

These words have been taken by fundamentalist apologists as meaning that the Tigris river overflowed, undercutting part of the walls of Nineveh, which which collapsed. The Medes and Chaldeans poured in the gap.Thinking that his city was impregnable, King Sardanapalus was feasting and drinking. Thus, the Assyrians were caught by surprise and utterly destroyed. Sardanapalus had his horses and concubines killed on his funeral pyre where he sat resigned and was burned to death.

None of this is true. The Medes and Chaldaens forced an entry at the Halzi gate, one of the few gates to the city that was not on the Tigris River. Sardanapalus is a mythical figure. The actual Assyrian king, Sin-shar-iskin, younger son of Ashurbanipul, may have thrown himself on his funeral pyre in despair as the city was falling. However, the Assyrians were not taken by surprise, but went down fighting. Ashur-uballit, younger brother of Ashurbanipul, led some die-hard Assyrians out of Nineveh as it was falling. They fled to Harran, where Ashur-uballit was crowned king. The Medes drove him out of Harran. So, he crossed the Euphrates and joined up with the Egyptian forces under Pharaoh Necho. Nebuchadrezzar, crown prince of Chaldea, forced a crossing of the Euphrates and defeated the combined Egyptian - Assyrian force at Charchemish (605 BCE). At tis point Ashur-uballlit disappears from history.

Babylon: Isaiah 13:15 - 18 predicts the fall of Babylon, saying the people will be run through and fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed in pieces before their eyes and their wives ravished. All this will be done by the Medes. Jeremiah 51:11 says that God is stirring up the kings of the Medes and Persians against Babylon, for his purpose is to destroy it. Both these prophecies are false. The city of Babylon welcomed the Persians under Cyrus as liberators and opened their gets to them, since the Babylonians hated the Chaldeans and saw them as usurpers. The city was taken without any bloodshed or destruction.

Egypt: Jeremiah 46:13 - 26 and Ezek. 30:10, 11 say that Nebuchadrezzar and the Chaldeans would invade and destroy Egypt, filling its land with the dead. This is false. Nebuchadrezzar was on the point of invading Egypt, but had to hasten back to Babylon to secure his accession when he got word that his father, King Nabopolasser, had died. He never did invade Egypt.

Tyre: Ezekiel 26:7 - 12 specifically states that Nebuchadrezzar would destroy the city of Tyre. This is false. Alexander the Great is the one who took the city.

Since DOC never did respond to this post, yet has responded to a later post of mine, I know he doesn't have me on ignore. So, I'm giving him another chance to answer these questions:

Many fundamentalist ministers have taken the words of Nahum 2:6, "The river gates are opened. The palace is in dismay," and spun them into the following scenario:

The Tigris river overflowed, undercutting part of the walls of Nineveh, which which collapsed. The Medes and Chaldeans poured in the gap.Thinking that his city was impregnable, King Sardanapalus was feasting and drinking. Thus, the Assyrians were caught by surprise and utterly destroyed. Sardanapalus had his horses and concubines killed on his funeral pyre where he sat resigned and was burned to death.

1) Since the Medes and Chaldeans bpoke in through the Halzi Gate, one of the few gates of Nineveh not on a river, and since Sardanapalus wasn't even a real person, aren't these guys full of bunk?

2) Since Isa. 13:15 - 18 predicts the fall of Babylon, saying the people will be run through and fall by the sword and that their infants will be dashed in pieces before their eyes and their wives ravished - all this to be done by the Medes; and Jer. 51:11 says that God is stirring up the kings of the Medes and Persians against Babylon, for his purpose is to destroy it; doesn't the fact that Babylon surrendered to Cyrus the Great, welcoming him as a liberator in fact, aren't these prophecies of its violent destruction at the hands of the Medes proven false?

3) Since Jer. 46:13 - 26 and Ezek. 30:10, 11 say that Nebuchadrezzar and the Chaldeans would invade and destroy Egypt, and he did not do this, aren't these two passages failed prophecies?

4) Since Ezekiel 26:7 - 12 specifically states that Nebuchadrezzar would destroy the city of Tyre, and he in fact did not take the city; isn't this a failed prophecy?

 

[dafydd]

3) Since Jer. 46:13 - 26 and Ezek. 30:10, 11 say that Nebuchadrezzar and the Chaldeans would invade and destroy Egypt, and he did not do this, aren't these two passages failed prophecies?

4) Since Ezekiel 26:7 - 12 specifically states that Nebuchadrezzar would destroy the city of Tyre, and he in fact did not take the city; isn't this a failed prophecy?

Maybe Doc thinks that Nebuchadrezzar is still alive and planning a comeback
Would you agree that those prophecies have failed Doc?

 

[joobz]

I never thought I'd say this, but I actually have to defend DOC a little here. When trying to interpret an ancient text, if you come up with an interpretation that would have been blatantly false to both the author and his immediate audience, you probably aren't interpreting it correctly. People at the time would have known that this to be far from the human average, so the author probably intended this to be an upper limit, and perhaps a rough one at that. I believe the Romans actually thought of the age 120 similarly, and I can double check that if anyone wants.

This seems like good advice to follow, but it doesn't always work.

I'd argue that the entire concept of "Jesus as a Shepherd and people as a flock" to be an inherent self-mockery. Afterall, when we consider just why a shepherd takes care of his his flock (either to fleece them or slaughter them for meat), I do not consider that a very positive image.


As such, just because something should be rationally obvious to an audience or an author, doesn't mean they don't use a term irrationally.

 

[joobz]

Maybe Doc thinks that Nebuchadrezzar is still alive and planning a comeback
Would you agree that those prophecies have failed Doc?

DOC has to realize that this isn't a new problem.
It was, at least in part, the reason for the legend of the wandering Jew.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wandering_Jew

 

[DOC]

Don't hold your breath Tim. By his own admission he hasn't read The Bible yet and as far as I can tell, the little bit he has read, he doesn't comprehend.

I've read the entire New Testament and most of the Old Testament. Let's just say I know enough about the Bible to fuel a 400+ page biblical Evidence thread which has close to 600,000 hits.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5959646#post5959646

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6366925#post6366925

 

[Resume]

I've read the entire New Testament and most of the Old Testament. Let's just say I know enough about the Bible to fuel a 500+ page biblical Evidence thread which has close to 600,000 hits.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5959646#post5959646


http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-124603.html

You've misread, misunderstood, misinterpreted and misposted what you think you read in the bible you mean. Those 500 plus pages were the result of those trying to correct your errors; the hits were from many getting a vicarious thrill at the plain wrongness of your interpretations.

 

[TimCallahan]

I've read the entire New Testament and most of the Old Testament. Let's just say I know enough about the Bible to fuel a 500+ page biblical Evidence thread which has close to 600,000 hits.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5959646#post5959646

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6366925#post6366925

Fine. So, how about some specific answers to my very specific questions?

 

[Mashuna]

I've read the entire New Testament and most of the Old Testament. Let's just say I know enough about the Bible to fuel a 400+ page biblical Evidence thread which has close to 600,000 hits.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5959646#post5959646

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6366925#post6366925

The only evidence in that thread is that you don't know much about the Bible, but will refuse to admit it for over 400+ pages.

 

[joobz]

let's just say i know enough about the bible to fuel a 400+ page biblical evidence thread which has close to 600,000 hits.

In other words:
GIGO

 

[Amazer]

I've read the entire New Testament and most of the Old Testament. Let's just say I know enough about the Bible to fuel a 400+ page biblical Evidence thread which has close to 600,000 hits.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5959646#post5959646

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6366925#post6366925

I'd say it was your lack of knowledge about the bible that managed to fuel that particular thread. I also vaguely remember that you managed to recycle a great many of your debunked arguments a large number of times, to the extend that some people even started playing Bingo with your arguments.

 

[Mudcat]

I'd say it was your lack of knowledge about the bible that managed to fuel that particular thread. I also vaguely remember that you managed to recycle a great many of your debunked arguments a large number of times, to the extend that some people even started playing Bingo with your arguments.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there a flowchart with DOC's arguments and tactics floating around somewhere?

 

[dafydd]

I've read the entire New Testament and most of the Old Testament. Let's just say I know enough about the Bible to fuel a 400+ page biblical Evidence thread which has close to 600,000 hits.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5959646#post5959646

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6366925#post6366925

600,000 chuckles.

 

[Elizabeth I]

600,000 chuckles.

Good times, good times.

 

[Akhenaten]

That went well, DOC. I suggest you use this argument more often.