Poor America - BBC Panorama Documentary

[Information Analyst]

Why is that? I've heard of lots of people receiving Income Based JSA for more than six months. Do you have large assets or savings perhaps? Or does your partner earning money make a difference?

UK IB JSA does not have an automatic six month cutoff point; what you wrote seems very misleading.

No, as Brodski suggests, I meant contirbution based. Not sure why I typed "IB" rather than "CB" - I think I was originally going to mention not being eligible for IB JSA, so the intials must have been bouncing around in my head at the time.

 

[Information Analyst]

There were also a small number referendums for regional government, not an English parliament but 9 regional assemblies throughout England. Only one of them is in Existence- in London. The idea crashed and burned at the referendum in the north east and the plans for elected regional assemblies outside London were scrapped.

Oh yeah, that'll be it.

 

[Information Analyst]

In Scotland all medication on prescription is free so there is no need for exceptions.

Not sure about Wales or NI.

ETA Just remembered - Wales have free prescriptions too.

Old mind set - first job I had in the NHS included the issuing of the exemption certificates, back when everyone was still paying. The point is, though, that insulin-dependent diabetics have not had to pay for their medication anywhere in the UK for a very long time.

 

[Virus]

They've worked a bit in the past

When?

there's reason to believe that with the current state of information technology and various other contemporary factors a planned economy might work well if instigated in a developed country.

Why?

Capitalism works a bit. Your binary does work/doesn't work position is unrealistic - as if capitalism doesn't have any downsides, such as environmental degredation, wasted economic effort, unemployment, astronomical wealth inequality, "each person for themselves" mentality leading to the annulment of community cohesion/civic responsibility...

It's still proven superior to anything else that's been tried.

 

[Faustus]

The biggest contributor to the building of the modern welfare state was Otto von Bismarck, who introduced universal health care on a grand scale in Germany. The Iron Chancellor has been called many things over the years, but never a socialist.

Welfare state doesn't have to mean socialism. Most western nations are welfare states, but not all of them are socialist. It's sort of a misconception that the government providing benefits to their people = socialism. In that case, defense, road building, schools, etc, are socialist, despite these things having been provided by governments long before the ideology of socialism saw the light of day.

Roadbuilding is paid for by targetted gasoline excise taxes, both from the state and the Feds. Schools, police, other local services are paid for from local property taxes, as are local welfare programs for the destitute, and are legitimate expenditures approved at the lowest levels by those being taxed.

Defense is a legitimate function of Federal government, and is mandated in the constitution, as are "post roads" and the postal service.

But the "welfare" that is the topic of this thread has become a transfer payment, and furthermore a way of buying votes in federal elections. That's what seperates it from the previously mentioned federal, state, and local expenditures, and the reason why so many choose to label it as socialism.

 

[Bad Lieutenant]

When?



Why?



It's still proven superior to anything else that's been tried.

1. Everywhere they've been tried. Cuba today.

2. Lots of reasons; here are a few - the diminishing marginal utility of wealth; the fact the economic entities can be assessed and monitered more easily; the fact people are now increasingly aware of the negative sides of capitalism etc.

3. Capitalism is inferior in many large aspects; just because capitalism is prevailing doesn't mean it's superior; if anything it's just the easiest way to run an economy.

 

[Virus]

1. Everywhere they've been tried. Cuba today.

You can't be serious.

 

[3point14]

You can't be serious.

Why not? You often appear to be.

 

[Dancing David]

Like I said housing assistance is much more difficult to get than you think around here its near impossible

There are other barriers besides the past history in Sec. 8, getting a clean power bill for one.
Of course a felony conviction doesn't help, nor does a prior eviction.

(The clean power bill is a huge problem, especially since some unscrupulous people will use their children's identity to get power. I knew someone who when they were 23 and his family was homeless, found out that he had thousands of dollars he owed on a power bill, acquired by a family member in his name when he was 13 yo.)

 

[Dancing David]

Roadbuilding is paid for by targetted gasoline excise taxes, both from the state and the Feds.

Not really, those only pay about half, the Feds heavily subsidize the roads.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

I know there are a lot of good USA-ers,

Seriously. Say that last "word" out loud and tell it makes more sense or sounds more correct than "Americans".

 

[joolz]

Seriously. Say that last "word" out loud and tell it makes more sense or sounds more correct than "Americans".

When I specifically say USA-ers it's clear that I mean the subset of Americans who are 'Americans from the USA' but it's a heck of a lot faster to type.

It's to distinguish between 'people who are from the USA' and 'people who are from America'. Why is that hard for you to comprehend? Have you forgotten that Canada is in America? Canadian friends get hacked off about the use of 'America' when people mean the USA so I am respecting their views. You seem to the the only person who is upset about it.

Then again, you probably call the UK 'England' like some of your compatriots, which shows you are not aware that the UK is more than just England, so you probably forget 'America' is more than just the USA too.

 

[crimresearch]

When I specifically say USA-ers it's clear that I mean the subset of Americans who are 'Americans from the USA' but it's a heck of a lot faster to type.

It's to distinguish between 'people who are from the USA' and 'people who are from America'. Why is that hard for you to comprehend? Have you forgotten that Canada is in America? Canadian friends get hacked off about the use of 'America' when people mean the USA so I am respecting their views. You seem to the the only person who is upset about it.

Then again, you probably call the UK 'England' like some of your compatriots, which shows you are not aware that the UK is more than just England, so you probably forget 'America' is more than just the USA too.

Where is the Estados Unidos Mexicanos located? Or did you forget the brown people?

 

[joolz]

Where is the Estados Unidos Mexicanos located? Or did you forget the brown people?

Well, I could have listed all the countries in America to demonstrate why I used 'USA-ers' insted of 'Americans', but one was suffice to make my point, and it was someone in Canada who asked me to be more specific in future so I picked that.


My friend worked in Venezuela for 25 years and just moved back here last week, so I could just have easily used that. But I didn't. Big deal. I took it as read that people on JREF would know that there are many more countries in America than just the two I listed, you've proved that you do, whoopee!

 

[Faustus]

Not really, those only pay about half, the Feds heavily subsidize the roads.

Virtually all highway funding comes from gasoline taxes, either federal or state and not from the general fund; notwithstanding, of course, any incidental so called "stimulus" money thrown at it recently.

Recommend you do a search on "Federal Highway Trust Fund" to understand how it works.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

Well, I could have listed all the countries in America to demonstrate why I used 'USA-ers' insted of 'Americans', but one was suffice to make my point, and it was someone in Canada who asked me to be more specific in future so I picked that.


My friend worked in Venezuela for 25 years and just moved back here last week, so I could just have easily used that. But I didn't. Big deal. I took it as read that people on JREF would know that there are many more countries in America than just the two I listed, you've proved that you do, whoopee!

maybe its just my own americentrism, but do any of the other countries have "america" in their name and self identify as "american?"

to use your own example, all the people from the UK ive known have always identified as english, welsh, etc, not "UKer"

 

[crimresearch]

It's still simply gringoism...


;-}

 

[joolz]

maybe its just my own americentrism, but do any of the other countries have "america" in their name and self identify as "american?"

to use your own example, all the people from the UK ive known have always identified as english, welsh, etc, not "UKer"

I haven't been to every country in America (yet) so I haven't met people from north to south. I do see your point, but I am trying to have respect my Canadian friend's request to differentiate. My friend said that when people talk about America sometimes they mean the USA, sometimes 'North/South/both Americas'. She is from America (her continent) and didn't like it to be confused with the USA's 'America'.

Here we have the word British, which a lot of people use in addition to their country. I am European and British and Scottish and use each one where approriate. I hope the British team (my team) do well in the Olympics and I hope the Scottish international football team cuff everyone at football (soccer ).

AFAIK the USA Olympic team is called the USA team, not the 'America' team.

If you can come up with a name that's quick to type that you prefer and that distinguishes the USA from 'America' then I'll certainly be polite and use it. Until then I'm stuck with USA-er as I can't think of anything else. I picked up the word 'Merkans from someone on JREF but it sounded like an impolite parody of your accent so I stopped using it.

 

[joolz]

It's still simply gringoism...


;-}

Haha, very pfunny, yes

It is a bit jingoistic to take the name of your whole continent as an alternative name for your country when you share that continent with others. Think I'll propose that Scotland renames itself 'Europe' after independence

 

[defaultdotxbe]

I haven't been to every country in America (yet) so I haven't met people from north to south. I do see your point, but I am trying to have respect my Canadian friend's request to differentiate. My friend said that when people talk about America sometimes they mean the USA, sometimes 'North/South/both Americas'. She is from America (her continent) and didn't like it to be confused with the USA's 'America'.

Here we have the word British, which a lot of people use in addition to their country. I am European and British and Scottish and use each one where approriate. I hope the British team (my team) do well in the Olympics and I hope the Scottish international football team cuff everyone at football (soccer ).

AFAIK the USA Olympic team is called the USA team, not the 'America' team.

If you can come up with a name that's quick to type that you prefer and that distinguishes the USA from 'America' then I'll certainly be polite and use it. Until then I'm stuck with USA-er as I can't think of anything else. I picked up the word 'Merkans from someone on JREF but it sounded like an impolite parody of your accent so I stopped using it.

i can see your point

personally ive never talked to anyone (even canadians) who take "american" as anything other than "USA-er" but as i indicated i live in the US so most of my contact is with other people people living in the US

oddly enough, ive actually come across more people living in the US who dont want to be called "american" or any form of it, such as african-americans born in the US (several generations so) who prefer to be called african, and first generation mexican-americans immigrants (or second generation, whichever you take to mean the first born in the adopted country) who prefer to be called mexican

i may be wrong, but isnt britain (british) just the one island, with england wales and scotland (so it excludes northern ireland) although i know theres issues with that too but i dont know the specifics (im "merkan" after all )

personally i find no offense in "merkan" and i know someone from denmark who lists his location on forums as "yurp" (europe)

Haha, very pfunny, yes

It is a bit jingoistic to take the name of your whole continent as an alternative name for your country when you share that continent with others. Think I'll propose that Scotland renames itself 'Europe' after independence

name youselves the united states of europe and ill gladly call you "yurpans"











anyway, back on topic, i watched the documentary the other day (before seeing this thread, i get a lot of BBC shows through the intarwebz)

while it does show the plight of some US citizens, i think it overstates how common such situations are in the US, most people are not that bad off and im sure i can find people in similar situations in europe

from an US standpoint the documentary seemed very left-leaning (US politics have always been, and probably always will be, very much to the right of "center" for the rest of the world)