• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Origin of the paint that was found as red-gray chips - any ideas?

We'll see if Kevin allows my reply on his blog. If he does, and if he continues to assert my dishonesty, I WILL ask him to publish the entire exchange, which is 100% email. As a matter of policy I never publish emails of 9/11 truth people without permission.

IIRC you spoke very well of Kevin Ryan in the past, it seems he's showing his true colours.
There seems to be a level of dishonesty at play here - on his part.

I wonder if you should give him a deadline to publish your exchange or remove his allegations, and then move ahead and publish them on your own blog.

Just a thought.
 
Ouch! :jaw-dropp

Why am I not surprised Jim is the guy for their job. Thank you for opening my eyes on this matter which was new to me.
Funny, the paper sources contradict the claims. Did you read the paper before jumping on the same old bring up tangential nonsense, that has nothing to with your failed CD lies? You sure do jump on junk that is political, which means nothing for you delusional CD claims. But feel free to tie the report, detailed facts about it, and how her work dovetails to your CD claims. You can't
 
Last edited:
It's amazing to be on the receiving end of paranoia. I KNOW I've done the best job I can, because, well, I know what I was thinking. I'm in my own brain, ya know. For example, I called Jim Millette "Lab Guy" because I wasn't totally committed to him until I finished my research on him. I barely remember how I found him; who recommended him was much less important to me than who he is and what he can do. I was getting recommendations from people all over the place. People have gotten suspicious of Millette for doing the study at a discount, for doing the study at all, for ever having written a report for the EPA, etc etc etc. Kevin Ryan calls me dishonest. People assume that I found the Jenkins accusations and knew about Millette being in her sights when I never found his name in my various google searches. Millette's name was barely a footnote in 9/11 Truth literature until now, which is why I never found it (and I did look). I don't know who the person is that some people think I am, but it's not the real me you are seeing.
 
PS: There's really nothing more to say until you can directly quote things Millette said in his past WTC dust studies. Don't just give me a link to a 100+ page document; I'm tired of scrolling through tons of materials. If there's anything besides the absurd claim that Millette said lots of iron but didn't say lots of iron-rich spheres in a study of health risks in the WTC dust, I'm still waiting. And it still makes me sick to see y'all tarring a man's professional intergity without solid proof. You've made some nasty accusations, you'd better back them up or back off.
 
PS: There's really nothing more to say until you can directly quote things Millette said in his past WTC dust studies. Don't just give me a link to a 100+ page document; I'm tired of scrolling through tons of materials. If there's anything besides the absurd claim that Millette said lots of iron but didn't say lots of iron-rich spheres in a study of health risks in the WTC dust, I'm still waiting. And it still makes me sick to see y'all tarring a man's professional intergity without solid proof. You've made some nasty accusations, you'd better back them up or back off.
Chris I haven't commented much on the progress of this issue. I have not been comfortable with the way that a third party professional has been subject to outright evil commentary. In part your own willingness to see good in anyone may have left this initiative open to mischief.

Personally I would continue to abstain from any discussion of Dr Millette's professional standards. Even speaking in his defence takes us into dangerous territory by giving a semblance of credibility to the attacks we may seek to counter. Better not even enter the debate.

For ourselves we choose to come here and in doing so we accept that it involves toleration of the dishonesty and personal attacks so routinely deployed by a minority of the members.

And in this instance it is all to little avail. There was no demolition at WTC on 9/11 and proof or disproof of thermXte is such a minor part of the evidence as to be irrelevant for all reasonable and practical purposes.

I understand your interest in pursuing the issue. I respect your effort in doing so. But there should be a limit to how far we go in attempting to accommodate those who demonstrate little interest in either reason, honesty or basic courtesy.
 
Last edited:
It's amazing to be on the receiving end of paranoia. I KNOW I've done the best job I can, because, well, I know what I was thinking. I'm in my own brain, ya know. For example, I called Jim Millette "Lab Guy" because I wasn't totally committed to him until I finished my research on him. I barely remember how I found him; who recommended him was much less important to me than who he is and what he can do. I was getting recommendations from people all over the place. People have gotten suspicious of Millette for doing the study at a discount, for doing the study at all, for ever having written a report for the EPA, etc etc etc. Kevin Ryan calls me dishonest. People assume that I found the Jenkins accusations and knew about Millette being in her sights when I never found his name in my various google searches. Millette's name was barely a footnote in 9/11 Truth literature until now, which is why I never found it (and I did look). I don't know who the person is that some people think I am, but it's not the real me you are seeing.
... the USGS posted the pH, at over 12, thus the data was available to me, in 2002, I have data from 2002 that has what the paper might call correct, available to the public. I have the doc here, on my computer.
The paper by that woman, clearly indicates the data was available, but she says a chart, has to draw a line, graphing, which we learned in GRADE school. You have to draw a line, in your mind, to see clearly the high pH. Not tough for an engineer, might be too much for a PhD in chemistry.
Thus, anyone who needed the data, the high pH, had access to the data in 2002. It seems kind of political, and since the real data was available, and she seems to be graph challenged, I can't understand the purpose. Maybe it is a little bit of peer professional assassination.

Does anyone think breathing dust is good for you? Do we need the EPA to warn us?

911 truth world is paranoid, another nonsense ploy, bring up tangential nonsense, raise doubt, spew some lies. What does the paper have to do with the guy doing the study now? Nothing. If he helped cover up the pH level, putting the so called "accurate" pH in a document in 2002, is like Cheney covering up shooting his friend by taking him to the hospital.

Why did the woman fail to take action in 2002? She had the data if she wanted it, why did she cover it up for years? What was the result of the paper she sent to Clinton, etal? Results; law suits? What? 911 truth never tells the rest of the story, and in this case, they can't because they are off on the next failed tangent, keeping their brain-dead followers busy with woo.
The woman took 5 years to break this story, is that slow or what? Was she in the EPA? I don't care, I have the data from 2002, and I can read charts, by eye, no line drawing required. If she is in the EPA, no wonder they failed, she is the one who can't catch errors, what she said were errors in real time. Big failure. Imagine pilots who can't catch errors in real time, big crash! 5 years?

the woman - played by Cate Jenkins, PhD

What does this tangential junk mean for 911 truth? SOP

PS: There's really nothing more to say until you can directly quote things Millette said in his past WTC dust studies. Don't just give me a link to a 100+ page document; I'm tired of scrolling through tons of materials. If there's anything besides the absurd claim that Millette said lots of iron but didn't say lots of iron-rich spheres in a study of health risks in the WTC dust, I'm still waiting. And it still makes me sick to see y'all tarring a man's professional intergity without solid proof. You've made some nasty accusations, you'd better back them up or back off.

The iron found is the same as background levels of iron in soil from the east coast, not surprising iron levels. You need to ignore all, especially 911 truth Followers, MM, ergo and others. They are trolls, they are not trying to help you understand 911. Ignore them and I. I don't need your study, but you are stepping up to the blackboard, you are doing something. Ignore everyone you need to, the paper junk is tangential political crap. The EPA and USGS published the "real" pH, people had access to data, and knew what was in the dust! 911 truth is lies, you don't have to prove it again; they prove they are are lies every chance they get. Good luck.

As stated in the initial USGS report to emergency response workers on Sept. 27, 2001, the materials identified by this study in the WTC dust and debris (chrysotile asbestos, glass fibers, alkaline concrete particles, potentially soluble metals) indicate that cleanup of dusts and the WTC debris should be done with appropriate respiratory protection and dust control measures.
My brother in-law lived close to ground zero, a few block away. After he left for work on 911, he never entered his aparment again. The entire area was wasted by the collapse. I can't figure out MM's point, he seems to be slinging mud with a blindfold on. He has to raise doubt to maintain his fantasy, this is what 911 truth has to do to fool the gullible. He failed to read the paper. Why does a PhD in the EPA wait 5 years to blow the whistle?
 
Last edited:
Chris I haven't commented much on the progress of this issue. I have not been comfortable with the way that a third party professional has been subject to outright evil commentary. In part your own willingness to see good in anyone may have left this initiative open to mischief.

Personally I would continue to abstain from any discussion of Dr Millette's professional standards. Even speaking in his defence takes us into dangerous territory by giving a semblance of credibility to the attacks we may seek to counter. Better not even enter the debate.
...

Against my usual habits in this thread, I neither commented directly on an issue raised here, nor did I try to get posters to focus on the narrow technical top of this thread. Predictably, it developed some perverse beauty. Witness the contrast between chrismohr standing up for and defending MM...
Edited by kmortis: 
Removed personal comments
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Edited by kmortis: 
Removed previously moderated content in quoted material


Well, without reading the paper, and being not familiar with Jim's work, I simply hope he has the equipment to duplicate Haritt's work and does so with honesty. If/and/or when he tries to fudge/omit data or skew the results, I'm quite sure he will be corrected with due diligence. Til then I will reserve judgement.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Well, without reading the paper, and being not familiar with Jim's work, I simply hope he has the equipment to duplicate Haritt's work and does so with honesty. If/and/or when he tries to fudge/omit data or skew the results, I'm quite sure he will be corrected with due diligence. Til then I will reserve judgement.

Remember that it wouldn't matter if there was a 100 tonne stockpile of thermXte on site. It wasn't used for demolition. This debate has gone so far down the sidetracks of irrelevant detail. "we" have lost sight of what raised the issue which was as support of demolition. There wasn't any demolition so the whole exercise is of limited real value.
 
If/and/or when he tries to fudge/omit data or skew the results, I'm quite sure he will be corrected with due diligence. Til then I will reserve judgement.

This crap has got me so angry. Jim is clearly working his ass off, with absolutely no bias towards the results. Chris too has worked his ass off to get as far as they both are now, and with the results almost in hand, all people like KreeL, MM, ergo and others can do is repost unsupported dribbles of dishonesty, believing them without question, and making their minds up before the results from Jim's study are even released.

KreeL, MM, etc. Your lack of faith in the 'scientific evidence' used to support your thermite theories is painfully obvious. It is because of this that you force yourselves to create any excuse imaginable to illegitimize the results of anything that may prove you wrong. Jim's results are not even released yet, and you guys are already wetting your pants, because YOU KNOW it's not going to support your theories. You Know what you've been following for the past 5 or 6 years is false. Why don't you do us all a favor and just admit it.
 
Last edited:
Seconded. KreeL et al. are going to have to face the pain of Epic Fail sooner or later. Unless you choose to live apart from reality and hostile to the scientific community, you will have to accept that your belief in controlled demolition of the WTC is wrong and the thermite theory is wrong.

Really, it's just a matter of time. Do yourselves a favour and accept the facts. (there are a number of reasons why the Jones/Harrit chips cannot have brought down the towers or WTC 7, we don't actually need another dust study to demonstrate this. Any further competent studies are simply going to reinforce the basic facts that Jones/Harrit are wrong, and so too must be their obedient flock)
 
..... support your thermite theories ..

.... the thermite theory is wrong....

You are too generous there folks. They have no "thermite theory" - so nothing to "support" - nothing to be "wrong".. ;)

Their position is;
"There was thermXte on site therefore it was used in demolition..."

...there are one or two not so minor holes in that claim. :rolleyes:

Like, for starters, there was no demolition AND they have not put forward a reasoned claim that there was.
 
Your lack of faith in the 'scientific evidence' used to support your thermite theories is painfully obvious. It is because of this that you force yourselves to create any excuse imaginable to illegitimize the results of anything that may prove you wrong.
Yes, but I'd say it's a bit more complex than that.

It is a preparation to "win" no matter the result.

If Jim says there was no thermite, it's because of his dishonesty and the credibility of his conclusions will be undermined, thus they won't be accepted. If Jim says there was thermite, his results will be widely publicized, no matter the dishonesty claims.

That all boils down to the fact that they won't accept any conclusion that contradicts their prejudices. A new investigation? That makes me laugh. No results of a new investigation will be accepted unless they confirm their delusions, and they won't if done honestly. I think that the Gallop lawsuit outcome already shows that quite clearly. And this preparation to reject Jim's findings if they don't prove the intended objective is yet another example.
 
Can someone find me a link to a statement made directly by Harrit (or Farrer) where he claims to have asked Tillotson and Gash and been given the reply that they tested their nanothermite under air?

Thanks!


ETA: I found a statement by Harrit in http://mysteries-magazin.com/index.php?op=news&func=news&id=5252
"The DSC measurements were conducted with access of the atmosphere because these were the conditions for the only published comparable measurement by Tillotson. We contacted Dr. Tillotson personally on the phone, and he informed us of this detail. "
(And thanks for the replies already)
 
Last edited:
Can someone find me a link to a statement made directly by Harrit (or Farrer) where he claims to have asked Tillotson and Gash and been given the reply that they tested their nanothermite under air?

Thanks!

Steven Jones himself : “ We used air in the studies to match conditions used by Tillotson et al., so we could compare with their results for known nanothermite - see Fig. 29 in our paper
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread469438/pg1
And reported by Frédéric Henry-Couannier : “ Because the
authors was surprised that the paper by Tillotson was not clear on the conditions of the Tillotson DSC trace, it was necessary to contact him directly. Dr. Farrer contacted Tillotson directly ! : the red curve was registered in the air!

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4680872&postcount=182
and here :
"Steven Jones m'a répondu, et m'a autorisé à poster sa réponse (Translation : Steven Jones answered me, and gave me permission to post his response ):
Second, Quirant needs to substantiate/document his claims -- Dr Farrer asked Dr. Tillotson in what atmosphere the LLNL tests were conducted, and Dr. Tillotson replied that these were done in air, not in ultra-pure nitrogen and not in an O2 atmosphere. We performed our tests in the same way, air, in order to make direct and fair comparisons with the Tillotson data.
"
http://forum.reopen911.info/p242059-16-12-2010-17-14-27.html#p242059
 
Last edited:
Can someone find me a link to a statement made directly by Harrit (or Farrer) where he claims to have asked Tillotson and Gash and been given the reply that they tested their nanothermite under air?

Thanks!
Doesn't matter whether they tested under argon, air, perfume or one of my farts. The DSC test is invalid. I've said this many times before. Why is it invalid well there are 2 very different materials in the sample namely red paint and oxidised steel. DSC works by weight, some of the weight is oxidised steel some is paint but no one knows exactly. This alone invalidates any calculation because it's unclear as to exactly what is reacting in the DSC.

Harrit et al make no mention that it's the gray layer (oxidised steel) that forms the bulk of the microspheres. This is self evident. The gray layer is present before heating, but is not presnt post heating, yet the red layer is only partially affected. If the substance was super dooper nano-thermite then there would be no red layer left, it would have fully ignited.

Why are truthers claiming the red layer is nano-thermite but offer no explanation as to why it's the gray layer that is actually forming the bulk of the microspheres?
 
Ozeco is right. Unless someone can provide concrete proof with specific citations of Dr. Millette's scientific dishonesty, I have no interest in dignifying personal attacks with any response at all.
 
This is actually a unique glimpse into the minds of twoofers, and we should do our best to document this. We've always said that no matter what a new investigation said, twoofers would only accept it if it supported them. Now we see that exact thing happening before our eyes.

I imagine this will be the final death stroke for any chance of 911 twoof getting into the mainstream. All people opposing these nutters have to do is show how the twoofers behaved in trying to undermine the very thing they claim to want. It completely destroys their credibility in the eyes of all but the very dumbest of people.
 
Ozeco is right. Unless someone can provide concrete proof with specific citations of Dr. Millette's scientific dishonesty, I have no interest in dignifying personal attacks with any response at all.

Marokkan posted this yesterday.
 

Back
Top Bottom