Continuation Part 4: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Dan O.]

Usi

I was reviewing some old news and spotted the name Usi. Since I didn't already know this name I looked for more references. The earliest reference was from Lumumba as relayed in the first judges report

Extracts from the official judge's report on the murder of Meredith Kercher, obtained by the Telegraph

In fact, while Lumumba was in the court hearing he confirmed that he had opened the pub in the afternoon of November 1 at around 1700 to 1800. The first receipts are shown to start from 22.29 and the suspect was not able to give any logical explanation for these circumstances, and was not able to furnish precise indications of the eventual clients who could attest to his presence in the pub before 22.29, and was not able to provide precise and therefore useful indications for the meeting with a person known only as Usi who would have come into the bar at 2000, or was able to give a telephone number or other identifying elements, despite calling him a friend.

Usi appears in another article

Telegraph Nov. 11, 2007

The man, a Congolese known only as "Usi", appeared on Italian television on Friday night and said that he had spent the entire evening with Lumumba.

So, Usi is a friend of Lumumba and was providing Lumumba with an alibi as early as Friday November 9th. In the next news clips we learn how ILE handles this witness that is threatening to upset their closed case...

Times Online, November 10, 2007

A security camera near Kercher's flat identified the fourth suspect as a Congolese known only as Usi retreating from Kercher's flat shortly after the incident allegedly occurred.

Today another man was arrested. Seems police found a fingerprint on a pillowcase that didn't belong to any of the three suspects. He is a musician, is also from Africa and is named Usi.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Yeah, I hadn't read that part back when I posted the above.

Oh well, who cares anyway.

Rolfe.

I find it interesting, up to a point. We know what guilters think of us... this dispute tells us something about what they think of each other.

Check this out:

http://i.imgur.com/BPChH.png

 

[anglolawyer]

I find it interesting, up to a point. We know what guilters think of us... this dispute tells us something about what they think of each other.

Check this out:

http://i.imgur.com/BPChH.png

A lawyer writes ...

Lots of interesting points in that email, not the least of which is blackmail. Blackmail involves making an unwarranted demand with menaces. To threaten to publish private and embarrasing information ('skeletons in your closet') is sailing pretty close to the wind.

I'm not at all sure either about Michael's claim to be entitled to have his posts on TJMK removed. In fact, it's probably poppycock, to use the technical term. Whatever it is, it sure is fun.

 

[Rolfe]

And considering its content, it would be interesting to know how that email got loose.

Rolfe.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

And considering its content, it would be interesting to know how that email got loose.

Rolfe.

Maybe someone went to a mental hospital and commissioned a forgery... but more likely Quennell posted it on his website and this is a screen shot.

 

[Antony]

So, Usi is a friend of Lumumba and was providing Lumumba with an alibi as early as Friday November 9th. In the next news clips we learn how ILE handles this witness that is threatening to upset their closed case...

Times Online, November 10, 2007

So what's new? Don't forget that Raffaele was arrested on 6 November with zero evidence against him (not even "the facts we knew were correct"). His mistake was that he was Amanda's alibi for the night.

 

[Dan O.]

So what's new? Don't forget that Raffaele was arrested on 6 November with zero evidence against him (not even "the facts we knew were correct"). His mistake was that he was Amanda's alibi for the night.

It's just another brick in the wall.

ILE must have figured out quickly that they had the wrong man in Usi. They quickly go into damage control with more lies distributed to the press

Komo news November 11

Police are not on the hunt for a fourth suspect on the case as had been previously reported, the Times reported on Sunday.

Italian media reported on Saturday police were looking for the fourth suspect after finding a set of fingerprints in Kercher's that does not belong to any of the three detained suspects.

But two police sources told the Times the fourth person, a North African man man who was hurriedly washing clothes at a nearby laundromat in the hours after the murder, is being sought in connection with another case.

One source of the investigating team told the Times the only mark found in Kercher's blood was a footprint believed to be that of Sollecito.

 

[Kaosium]

So what's new? Don't forget that Raffaele was arrested on 6 November with zero evidence against him (not even "the facts we knew were correct"). His mistake was that he was Amanda's alibi for the night.

It illustrates nicely just who was the impetus behind the arrest of Patrick and was responsible for his incarceration. Amanda signs those statements and the same day writes her long note saying she isn't sure of any of it, she's terribly confused. Then the next day, on the seventh, she writes them with a full retraction say she couldn't know if Patrick was the killer. At the same time police go out and get a 'witness' that his bar was closed on the night of the murder, then go and arrest someone giving Patrick an alibi. A few days later police will record Amanda talking to her mother saying she feels bad that Patrick was arrested, as she's realized the police don't have any evidence against him. Then when he's finally released she celebrates in her diary thinking that something is finally going right.

If Amanda's statements were intended to 'misdirect' the Perugian police, how come she's the one who seems to want Patrick out of jail, and it takes police two weeks to do so even after Amanda's two notes retracting her statements, and all the people stepping forward to give Patrick an alibi? His lawyer claimed he could muster about twenty of them in that 11-12-07 Fox/Times piece I've linked dozens of times but which isn't coming up now.

However it would take until the twentieth for the police to release Patrick and they'd keep his bar closed as a 'crime scene' for months afterward. Then they'd blame it all on Amanda, who'd been telling them since the day of the arrest she didn't think any of it happened and they just confused the hell out of her with their lies. So how come if it was Amanda who wanted Patrick arrested, that it was her trying to tell them she couldn't be used as 'testimone' and the next day that she wasn't there and couldn't know, while it's the police doing all they did to try and keep him there?

Because it was the police who wanted Patrick arrested all along, not Amanda who was just browbeaten into agreeing she must have been there and seen what they wanted her to. They wouldn't listen to Patrick, they wouldn't listen to Amanda, they wouldn't listen to anyone else trying to tell them differently, not this Usi they arrested nor the Swiss professional who flew back to Perugia to also alibi Patrick.

The impetus of Patrick's arrest came from the police, not Amanda. It's incredible that they'd attempt to pretend otherwise.

 

[bookworm]

Wow! That was a great blast from the past. Does anyone know what happened to Oceania?

It doesn't surprise me that Rudy hung out with a rough crowd, I wonder if this guy really disappeared because of the murder? With the evidence available there's no way to say anyone else might have been involved, but with a corrupt prosecution trying desperately to focus attention on Raffaele and Amanda to the extent they didn't even get the putative semen stain found under the body tested (that they admit to...) it wouldn't surprise me if there was some other evidence they dismissed as it didn't fit with what they needed against Raffaele and Amanda.

Wouldn't this guy Oceania was talking about be Kokomani? I've suspected for a long time he was there with Rudy somehow.

 

[Grinder]

They are saying Amanda stole Meredith's rent money and then deposited it into her checking account???

Wow.

It is true that Amanda made a $562 deposit that posted on Nov. 5, but probably was made sometime in the preceding several days, which were not business days. It was either money from work or a monthly payment made by Amanda's family, who were holding about $9k for her. She didn't want to hold the entire balance of her savings in her checking account for security reasons.

It's also true that she withdrew $361.54 for her share of the rent, another transaction that posted on Nov. 5. Her checking balance after the deposit and the withdrawal was about $4k.

I'm sure Mignini would have brought all the banking records out in court if there was any possibility that Amanda had deposited Meredith's money, but it would be nice to have a better explanation.

While it is clear that 361.54 is a conversion from the Euros taken out, the 562 seems an odd amount for the family to send in dollars. One theory was that someone (German aunt?) sent money for a flight which would explain the non-even dollar amount.

It would be nice to know exactly just to stop the prattling and babbling, but if you don't know, you don't know.

To me it would be more likely that she deposited the rent money she had withdrawn (although I seem to recall her being arrested with cash in possession) and adding to that payment from Patrick.

As I said above, if the deposits weren't explained I'm sure the ILE would have been all over it, so clearly it doesn't have any value in proving guilt, but for those of the PG persuasion it would be nice to inform them precisely.

 

[Dan O.]

While it is clear that 361.54 is a conversion from the Euros taken out, the 562 seems an odd amount for the family to send in dollars. One theory was that someone (German aunt?) sent money for a flight which would explain the non-even dollar amount.

The conversion rate in November 2007 was .69895 US$ = €1. $361.54 would be about €517. That would be €300 for the rent, €200 for pocket change and €17 (about 3%) that the bank keeps as an exchange fee. (I haven't looked up the common exchange fees/foreign transaction fees but I think this is in the ballpark)

 

[Kaosium]

Wouldn't this guy Oceania was talking about be Kokomani? I've suspected for a long time he was there with Rudy somehow.

Kokomani was Albanian I believe, and older. I wouldn't think he'd be described as a young Italian. The bottom Bob Graham story here is certainly suggestive, but in looking for that creepy pic of him in that story I came across this on the second page of the Ann Wise story which is interesting as well:

According to Kokomani, Guede offered him $400 to borrow his car the next day.

I wonder if that part of the story might be true? The rest with the olive-throwing and the proven falsehoods certainly makes anything he says dubious, but it is interesting that 400 matches the amount that might have been Meredith's rent money. Of course the next day Rudy was planning his departure from the country and might want to 'borrow' a car....

 

[Machiavelli]

My guess at the outset is there is very little chance they will strike down Hellmann's decision, they will deny the appeal and declare the acquittal final. However they will be doing that when they damn well feel like getting around to it, the estimates I've hear of a year don't seem unrealistic. Italy has their own wing of the ECHR in Strasbourg to resolve their issues with length of proceedings for a reason. There are some cases that have lasted decades. I don't think this will be one of them though.

This is probably what Mignini wants to do, draw it out as long as he can to avoid the consequences of his actions. As long as he can still pretend it's about her, people might not realize it's actually about him. He's the one who came up with the nutty theory (again!) and went way off the reservation trying to prosecute everyone who protested (again!) so as long as he can maintain the specter of it being possible he was right, he will probably do so.

Otherwise they might just realize what he did, (again!) and the prosecutor in Turin may well be taking notes...

Mignini is not under indictment, most likely he will never be; and there is no ongoing trial in Turin.
He doesn't face any consequence.
Moreover, he is not dealing with the Kercher case any longer. He is in no position for drawing along anything.

 

[smkovalinksy]

I so wish the high court in Rome would simply blow this appeal off.

I am weary of seeing the whole class war of Kercher versus Knox on pmf, with Kercher's idealization juxtaposed with Knox's degradation. In addition to dedicating one of Shakespeare's Sonnets to Kercher today, one finds this sort of thing below, and the end of all this falseness is one of my main reasons for desiring this thing to finally come to its end:

The motive was a combination of control and intense rivalry between an uncouth party girl and a beautiful and cultured woman whose accomplishments, even at her age, outshone anything Knox could ever dream of.

Does anyone actually believe this type of drivel, it sounds like something out of a cheap romance novel.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

I'm sure Mignini would have brought all the banking records out in court if there was any possibility that Amanda had deposited Meredith's money, but it would be nice to have a better explanation.

While it is clear that 361.54 is a conversion from the Euros taken out, the 562 seems an odd amount for the family to send in dollars. One theory was that someone (German aunt?) sent money for a flight which would explain the non-even dollar amount.

It would be nice to know exactly just to stop the prattling and babbling, but if you don't know, you don't know.

To me it would be more likely that she deposited the rent money she had withdrawn (although I seem to recall her being arrested with cash in possession) and adding to that payment from Patrick.

As I said above, if the deposits weren't explained I'm sure the ILE would have been all over it, so clearly it doesn't have any value in proving guilt, but for those of the PG persuasion it would be nice to inform them precisely.

The person who gave me the bank statements wasn't sure about the deposit, whether it was a check from work or a check from home, but thought it was one or the other. I doubt it was a cash deposit, or she'd have just held it instead of making a separate withdrawal.

Those of the PG persuasion will believe whatever fantasy suits them. Those of sound mind will recognize that Amanda's bank records show a student who was cautious and reasonable in her expenditures, and certainly had no desperate need for cash.

 

[Grinder]

The conversion rate in November 2007 was .69895 US$ = €1. $361.54 would be about €517. That would be €300 for the rent, €200 for pocket change and €17 (about 3%) that the bank keeps as an exchange fee. (I haven't looked up the common exchange fees/foreign transaction fees but I think this is in the ballpark)

$361 would be about 250 Euro. You need to multiply the dollar number by the .69895 number. The Euro was worth more than a dollar at 1.45 dollars for one Euro. You conversion number is reversed - it was .69895 Euro equals one dollar.

http://www.gocurrency.com/v2/histor...2=EUR&ccode=USD&frMonth=1&frDay=6&frYear=2007

Anyway, it doesn't matter as neither Mignini or the court brought it up. Funny that the PGP that uncovered this breakthrough is now claiming that Amanda washed the money. Not washed in the sense of exchanging the stolen money for other money, but actually washing the money in soap and water.

Entertaining.

 

[Kaosium]

Mignini is not under indictment, most likely he will never be; and there is no ongoing trial in Turin.
He doesn't face any consequence.

I asked Frank about this in December, (fourth comment) and he assured me they would pick it up in Turin. Are you saying Frank Sfarzo is wrong? You've said that before and he turned out to be right, what makes this time different?

Moreover, he is not dealing with the Kercher case any longer. He is in no position for drawing along anything.

That's how it should have been for the appeal, but he wormed his way into that somehow, and then Comodi was brought on, all highly unusual for appeals in Italy, some thought it unprecedented. He not only became part of the team, he and Comodi seemed to take the lead in court too--and with the press. That is until Mignini was muzzled, or so we heard, after the Bob Graham interview debacle. Do you have any juicy inside details about that?

It was also his case prosecuted again in court, complete with nuggets debunked even by Massei like the 'mixed blood' and the backwards-ass contention Raffaele called the Carabinieri after the Postal Police arrived. As you pointed out repeatedly between the trial and the appeal, Costagliola could have made an entirely different case, instead it was just a rehash of the original trash--including some things too far-fetched for Massei.

Mignini has dominated this case from the beginning, it's his baby--and his career. Frank also thinks Mignini had...influence over the prosecution appeal to the Supreme Court. Why wouldn't he have, it's his life's work on the line. His entire reputation. If he can manage to get the stature he did on the appeals team, what makes you think he wouldn't try the same with the Supreme Court? I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of those 112 pages are from the mind of Mignini.

Anyway, welcome back to the JREF thread!

 

[anglolawyer]

Mignini is not under indictment, most likely he will never be; and there is no ongoing trial in Turin.
He doesn't face any consequence.
Moreover, he is not dealing with the Kercher case any longer. He is in no position for drawing along anything.

Let's see what happens when the tapes hit YouTube.

 

[Rolfe]

I'm a little disappointed that JHunter hasn't returned to the thread to continue discussing the points he raised.

Rolfe.

 

[Bill Williams]

Let's see what happens when the tapes hit YouTube.

This will happen sooner than you think.