Merged "Iron-rich spheres" - scienctific explanation?

Christopher7 said:
Games :rolleyes:
You are making the assertion that office fires produce iron spheres.
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Why would office fire not make iron spheres, the ones Jones has are iron oxide. You don't do reality based research, or you would see Jones is a fraud.

RJ Lee, his samples were after clean up. Better try again.
 
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Christopher7 said:
The pressure wave forced dust into buildings and infiltrated equipment [FONT=&quot]... [/FONT] Figure 32 shows the pervasiveness of the dust infiltration in a motor that was sealed prior to being disassembled for inspection. This situation is clearly different from a typical office environment where any contamination of equipment would occur by passive deposition on surfaces rather than penetration into sealed components and interior areas of equipment.
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We know how the dust got into places. We stipulate that the contaminents found came from the WTC buildings. Why did you bold that part? It seems to me kind of obsessive/compulsive.
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leftysergeant said:
We know how the dust got into places. We stipulate that the contaminents found came from the WTC buildings. Why did you bold that part? It seems to me kind of obsessive/compulsive.
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The pressure of the dust cloud from the destruction of the TT pushed dust into places where passive dust does not go. The contaminates were the same throughout the building. Therefore, the lead covered fibers and the iron microspheres were carried by the TT dust cloud and were NOT deposited later.

If an appreciable amount of lead vapors and iron microspheres contaminated the dust passively during the clean up, the areas where the dust was forced in by the pressure of the TT dust cloud would be noticeably different. It would have less contaminates.
 
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Christopher7 said:
I have seen evidence that Iron rich microspheres are produced in solid waste incinerators but no data as to how much per ton of solid waste or how long it takes. Nor has anyone posted an EDS of these microspheres to see if they match the example in the RJ Lee Group report.
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Do you agree that there is no need for fires to be hot enough to melt iron or do you think trash incinerators are that hot?
 
Chris7 you're horrifically wrong on iron microspheres. They are unimportant, irrelevant truther drivel.

They mean nothing. No thermite, no explosives. This proves that iron microspheres are irrelevant.
 
Christopher7 said:
The pressure of the dust cloud from the destruction of the TT pushed dust into places where passive dust does not go. The contaminates were the same throughout the building. Therefore, the lead covered fibers and the iron microspheres were carried by the TT dust cloud and were NOT deposited later.

If an appreciable amount of lead vapors and iron microspheres contaminated the dust passively during the clean up, the areas where the dust was forced in by the pressure of the TT dust cloud would be noticeably different. It would have less contaminates.
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Yes, ignore 8 months of dust, fumes, etc. That is what science is all about. You win because you can't comprehend what 19 terrorists did, so you fall for the lies of 911 truth.

Iron sphere as all over, along the roadside, on trees, everywhere. Iron is 5 to 6 percent of the earth's crust. This means you can go in your backyard and find samples with 6 pecent iron. Toner cartrigests, thousands of them have iron in them, they all collapse on 911 and spread fine icky powder all over.

The mineral wool used at the WTC was contaminated with lead vapor before 911, it was due to the manufacturing process - which has been cleaned up after the 70s. RJ Lee finding lead on the mineral wool, is like finding milk in your cereal bowl with your corn flakes. But facts for you are things to ignore so you can remain happy there is a Conspiracy Theory so stupid it makes you happy, something to fight for using the sword of delusions. A fairytale, the paranoid world you need.
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You picked the wrong side on this issue.

RJ Lee report does not mean all the dust had 6 percent iron. Most the dust was gypsum. You ignore the facts and evidence so you can make up fantasy.

There were thousand of UPS, with lead, melted during the WTC fires, and atomized by the energy of collapse, Kinetic Energy greater than 576,000,000,000 joules. If you did physics, if you understood science you would not be spewing delusional claims about iron spheres at the WTC, or lead on mineral wool, to support your insane claim of thermite.
 
Christopher7 said:
If you can provide credible documentation that a significant amount of iron microspheres like the one depicted in the EDS in the RJ Lee report can be produced from office contents of the fire involved floors of the trade towers and WTC 7 I would concede the point.
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Nope. See, that's the problem. What specifically do you define as "credible" documentation? My strong suspicion is that you have no idea yourself. Your belief structure is based on rejecting evidence that does not support 9/11 conspiracy theories, so anything I present will simply be deemed "not credible." Yep, I've been there and done that. Evidence most assuredly exists to prove that iron microspheres, of the type seen in the RJ Lee. If I present that evidence, will you abandon the thermite-based 9/11 conspiracy theory?
The solid waste incinerator produces iron microspheres but it is not a good comparison to office furnishings.
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Case in point. You don't get to exclude data from consideration in this part of the discussion.
Do you have any data on iron microspheres produced in an office fire?
Also, how many tons of solid waste must be burned to produce a ton of iron microspheres?
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I have plenty of data. I'm not going to present it until you agree that what I present constitutes data that disproves the thermite claptrap. I'm not trying to be pedantic here; I'm trying to determine if you're honestly just lacking data or if you simply believe that no one can prove you wrong on this point. That just becomes a meaningless exercise in data peek-a-boo.
 
LSSBB said:
See, that's the point that kills the whole Iron Melting Point argument earlier, but it seems that it keeps being danced away from with special pleading.
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The iron spheres are so common in the WTC dust and so rare otherwise that they are one of the "signature markers".

It's not enough to say iron spheres are created in solid waste furnaces and therefore the abundance of spheres in the WTC dust were created during the fires. This ignors the fact that the vast majority of any iron spheres created that way, left the buildings with the smoke. They could not possibly account for the abundance of iron spheres in the WTC dust.

Furthermore, no one has provided any data on how many iron spheres could be created by the fires in the TT.

The iron spheres from office furnishings hypothesis also ignores that lead vaporized during the collapse.
 
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Christopher7 said:
If an appreciable amount of lead vapors and iron microspheres contaminated the dust passively during the clean up, the areas where the dust was forced in by the pressure of the TT dust cloud would be noticeably different. It would have less contaminates.
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Think for a change. WTC6 had been on fire for hours when WTC7 fell. That created a pressure wave, too.
 
The Almond said:
Nope. See, that's the problem. What specifically do you define as "credible" documentation? My strong suspicion is that you have no idea yourself.
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The website of the solid waste plant is a good source of information. I have read some stuff from the one in GB and consider it authoritative.

Your belief structure is based on rejecting evidence that does not support 9/11 conspiracy theories
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You are talking to the folks here with that statement. Y'all say the witnesses who saw molten steel are all mistaken and you know better. The same holds true for the witnesses who heard and felt explosions.

Evidence most assuredly exists to prove that iron microspheres, of the type seen in the RJ Lee.
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Post it

If I present that evidence, will you abandon the thermite-based 9/11 conspiracy theory?
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No. The iron spheres are only one part of the evidence of thermite.

The solid waste incinerator produces iron microspheres but it is not a good comparison to office furnishings.
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Case in point. You don't get to exclude data from consideration in this part of the discussion.
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You need to demonstrate the similarity. What do they burn?

I have plenty of data. I'm not going to present it until you agree that what I present constitutes data that disproves the thermite claptrap.
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You sound like a five year old. Just post the data.
 
Christopher7 said:
It's not enough to say iron spheres are created in solid waste furnaces and therefore the abundance of spheres in the WTC dust were created during the fires. This ignors the fact that the vast majority of any iron spheres created that way, left the buildings with the smoke. They could not possibly account for the abundance of iron spheres in the WTC dust.
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You don't get away with pulling something like that out of your butt when there are fire fighters present. You're wrong. In a fire that hot, all of the paper in a file cabinet can be reduced to a white ash and the ash will never leave the file cabinet. Your measurements are as wanky as Hoffman's.

Furthermore, no one has provided any data on how many iron spheres could be created by the fires in the TT.
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You have to quantify your thermite-produced sphereules. We know a mechanism by which the sphereules can be produced in a normal office fire. We do not need to know how much paper was burned to produce them. We do not know how much all the sphereules together weighed so it would be impossible to plug one set of data into another and get an answer that makes sense.You, by contrast, postulate the existance of a magical substance which nobody here, including those of us with experience with thermite, has ever seen behave in a manner remotely like what you postulate.

The burden of proof is all on you. Get some data showing that thermite can be used to cut down the towers AND simultaneously vaporize the lead in the computers WITHOUT SCREWING UP EVERY TV CAMERA IN NYC.
 
The iron spheres are so common in the WTC dust and so rare otherwise that they are one of the "signature markers".
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cow pies. That is as false a statement as can be made.

Furthermore, no one has provided any data on how many iron spheres could be created by the fires in the TT.
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Because only retarded truthers think it matters.
 
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I'm still stuck on the "star trek" dust. How can it be in a location that dust "commonly doesn't go." Did it commonly not go there before 9/11 or after? Did the massive change in the atmosphere open up the chance that more dust can go there? How can you confirm that dust doesn't really go somewhere?

Something seems off.
 
C7 said:
It's not enough to say iron spheres are created in solid waste furnaces and therefore the abundance of spheres in the WTC dust were created during the fires. This ignors the fact that the vast majority of any iron spheres created that way, left the buildings with the smoke. They could not possibly account for the abundance of iron spheres in the WTC dust.
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leftysergeant said:
You don't get away with pulling something like that out of your butt when there are fire fighters present. You're wrong. In a fire that hot, all of the paper in a file cabinet can be reduced to a white ash and the ash will never leave the file cabinet.
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But that's only a part of the office contents. Even in the case of file cabinets, the lead vapors and the microscopic iron spheres would be carried away with the smoke, leaving only the largest iron spheres.

You have to quantify your thermite-produced sphereules. We know a mechanism by which the sphereules can be produced in a normal office fire. We do not need to know how much paper was burned to produce them. We do not know how much all the sphereules together weighed so it would be impossible to plug one set of data into another and get an answer that makes sense.You, by contrast, postulate the existance of a magical substance which nobody here, including those of us with experience with thermite, has ever seen behave in a manner remotely like what you postulate.

The burden of proof is all on you. Get some data showing that thermite can be used to cut down the towers AND simultaneously vaporize the lead in the computers WITHOUT SCREWING UP EVERY TV CAMERA IN NYC.
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The possibilities of what nano-thermite can do are not know by the public. This thread is about establishing temperatures far in excess of what office fires can attain. So far, you have not provided a viable alternative to the extreme temperatures of 2800oF and 3100oF it takes to melt iron and vaporize lead.[FONT=&quot]
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Christopher7 said:
But that's only a part of the office contents. Even in the case of file cabinets, the lead vapors and the microscopic iron spheres would be carried away with the smoke, leaving only the largest iron spheres.
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Prove it. Demonstrate the transport mechanism. You arer telling a fire fighter stuff that he cannot even imagine happening. I know how vaporized hydrocarbons would leave the file cabinet. They are in a gaseous state. Iron pellets or particles are not. Think for a change.

The possibilities of what nano-thermite can do are not know by the public.
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Then stop talking about them until you have proof that they have properties different from the thermite that I have worked with.

This thread is about establishing temperatures far in excess of what office fires can attain. So far, you have not provided a viable alternative to the extreme temperatures of 2800oF and 3100oF it takes to melt iron and vaporize lead.[FONT=&quot]
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You still haven't established that your superseekertnanobanano thermite can vaporize a computer without being in contact with it, without also lighting up the whole skyline of NYC. FAIL.
 
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