Merged "Iron-rich spheres" - scienctific explanation?

[DGM]

All I'm trying to establish on this thread is that temperatures far in excess of what office fires can attain melted iron and vaporized lead during the destruction of the TT and WTC 7.

I thought we were discussing the creation of "iron-rich micro-spheres"? You've already stated they can be produced in a trash incinerator, Are you claiming they burn hot enough to melt iron? You seem to imply they do.

The solid waste incinerator produces iron microspheres

 

[000063]

We are discussing your [collective] theory of how the iron spheres were created. All I'm trying to establish on this thread is that temperatures far in excess of what office fires can attain melted iron and vaporized lead during the destruction of the TT and WTC 7.

Facts not in evidence, question under debate, affirming the consequent.

We can discuss therm*te on another thread.

But it's germane to the theory you claim we are discussing.

ETA: 000063, let Almond speak for him/her self.

No.

You are being intellectually dishonest. There is no need to let that stand. For example, your avoidance of all my points by saying I'm speaking for Almond, when you had no problem with me contesting your points before I proved you were moving goalposts. I am speaking of Almond and what he said, not for him. I even acknowledge the ambiguity of his post, which only he can clear up.

 

[leftysergeant]

It's a different composition than would be found in a office.

Cow cookies. The only difference is ther amount of lead in an office fire.

No one has established any other sources, they have just speculated.

Given the lack of obvious alumina, thermite has been ruled out.

 

[Christopher7]

Facts not in evidence, question under debate, affirming the consequent.

Nothing to establish that the spheres were created at temperatures lower than 2800^oF has been posted, just speculation. The spheres from solid waste is just a theory until someone shows that they could be produced in enough quantity to become a "marker" of the WTC dust.

How much solid waste must be burned to get a ton of these iron microspheres and how long would it take?
Are these spheres the same as the one in the example in the RJ Lee report.

Until someone produces some data, this is just speculation.

You are being intellectually dishonest. There is no need to let that stand. For example, your avoidance of all my points by saying I'm speaking for Almond, when you had no problem with me contesting your points before I proved you were moving goalposts. I am speaking of Almond and what he said, not for him. I even acknowledge the ambiguity of his post, which only he can clear up.

Hogwash
I responded to your points and you did not "prove I moved the goal posts". Asking for data is not moving the goal posts.

You are engaging in argument for argument's sake. Stick to the data.

 

[Christopher7]

It's a different composition than would be found in a office.

Cow cookies. The only difference is ther amount of lead in an office fire.

Source?

Given the lack of obvious alumina, thermite has been ruled out.

The spheres may not be directly from thermite but the extreme temperatures that melted iron and vaporized lead can only be explained by some form of thermite. No one has provided data to back up the claim the the spheres were created from office furnishings burning. So far it's just another attempt to find an alternate explanation.

 

[DGM]

Chris7, I'm hurt. You skipped over my post.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=7994173#post7994173

 

[sheeplesnshills]

Source?

The spheres may not be directly from thermite but the extreme temperatures that melted iron and vaporized lead can only be explained by some form of thermite. No one has provided data to back up the claim the the spheres were created from office furnishings burning. So far it's just another attempt to find an alternate explanation.

Stop trying to push the burden of evidence on us! Only you are looking for proof of anything other than a fire induced collapse. You say it must have been thermite because of a comment in the RJ Lee report but you have made no effort whatsoever to scientifically exclude all other much more probable sources. Its clear RJ Lee think there is a more plausible source as they describe as them as "expected"

Why are twoofers so @#$%^&* lazy!

 

[sheeplesnshills]

Nothing to establish that the spheres were created at temperatures lower than 2800^oF has been posted, just speculation. The spheres from solid waste is just a theory until someone shows that they could be produced in enough quantity to become a "marker" of the WTC dust.

How much solid waste must be burned to get a ton of these iron microspheres and how long would it take?
Are these spheres the same as the one in the example in the RJ Lee report.

Until someone produces some data, this is just speculation.


Hogwash
I responded to your points and you did not "prove I moved the goal posts". Asking for data is not moving the goal posts.

You are engaging in argument for argument's sake. Stick to the data.

Bingo!, its your theory, produce the data to back it up.

 

[000063]

Nothing to establish that the spheres were created at temperatures lower than 2800^oF has been posted, just speculation. The spheres from solid waste is just a theory until someone shows that they could be produced in enough quantity to become a "marker" of the WTC dust.

How much solid waste must be burned to get a ton of these iron microspheres and how long would it take?
Are these spheres the same as the one in the example in the RJ Lee report.

Until someone produces some data, this is just speculation.



Hogwash
I responded to your points and you did not "prove I moved the goal posts". Asking for data is not moving the goal posts.

You made a simple claim. Almond claimed you were wrong, and asked you if you would admit it if he proved you wrong. You said you would concede the point it if he proved a much, much more specific claim that was almost entirely different from your original one.

You made a half measure attempt to respond to my post, and when I knocked that down, chastised me for speaking for Almond. Almond asked you what you would do if he proved you wrong on a specific claim and you never really answered.

You are engaging in argument for argument's sake. Stick to the data.

I assume you deleted the central part of my post by accident? The one about discussion of thermite being germane to the argument?

 

[leftysergeant]

The spheres may not be directly from thermite but the extreme temperatures that melted iron and vaporized lead can only be explained by some form of thermite. No one has provided data to back up the claim the the spheres were created from office furnishings burning. So far it's just another attempt to find an alternate explanation.

Horse hockey. No alumina, no thermite. That simple.

 

[Christopher7]

I thought we were discussing the creation of "iron-rich micro-spheres"? You've already stated they can be produced in a trash incinerator, Are you claiming they burn hot enough to melt iron? You seem to imply they do.

I have seen evidence that Iron rich microspheres are produced in solid waste incinerators but no data as to how much per ton of solid waste or how long it takes. Nor has anyone posted an EDS of these microspheres to see if they match the example in the RJ Lee Group report.

 

[leftysergeant]

I have seen evidence that Iron rich microspheres are produced in solid waste incinerators but no data as to how much per ton of solid waste or how long it takes. Nor has anyone posted an EDS of these microspheres to see if they match the example in the RJ Lee Group report.

Given that the Class A fuels available in the towers included massive amounts of self-copying paper, we should expect a higher ratio of iron in the combustion products. The spheres would, of course, incorporate great quantities of kaolin.

 

[Christopher7]

Given that the Class A fuels available in the towers included massive amounts of self-copying paper, we should expect a higher ratio of iron in the combustion products. The spheres would, of course, incorporate great quantities of kaolin.

That's speculation. Please provide some data to back it up.

 

[sheeplesnshills]

I have seen evidence that Iron rich microspheres are produced in solid waste incinerators but no data as to how much per ton of solid waste or how long it takes. Nor has anyone posted an EDS of these microspheres to see if they match the example in the RJ Lee Group report.

So what are you waiting or? get the data and the EDS.

What you expect us to prove your assertion

 

[A W Smith]

Can a therm*tic reaction, Which was not observed by the way. Produce substantial amounts? Given this, what quantity or therm*te would be needed to produce these iron spheres in this large scale? Do you see where your conspiracy falls flat on its face? Yes i know you will still bask in your ignorance. My sig still fits you to a tee Chris Sarns.

We are discussing your [collective] theory of how the iron spheres were created. All I'm trying to establish on this thread is that temperatures far in excess of what office fires can attain melted iron and vaporized lead during the destruction of the TT and WTC 7.

We can discuss therm*te on another thread.

Source?

The spheres may not be directly from thermite but the extreme temperatures that melted iron and vaporized lead can only be explained by some form of thermite. No one has provided data to back up the claim the the spheres were created from office furnishings burning. So far it's just another attempt to find an alternate explanation.

Yet there you go trying to back in "some form of thermite" into your conspiracy theory, You and I both know it is impossible to load the building with enough thermite to create the vast volume of iron spheres you claim can ONLY be created by "some form of thermite" , We keep telling you the spheres were a phenomena that was "expected", Yet you hand wave it away in your colossal ignorance. You have been trying this for six years now Sarns yet you are no closer to proving ANY component of your conspiracy.

 

[LSSBB]

I have seen evidence that Iron rich microspheres are produced in solid waste incinerators but no data as to how much per ton of solid waste or how long it takes. Nor has anyone posted an EDS of these microspheres to see if they match the example in the RJ Lee Group report.

Wait, it still comes down to YOU are the one trying to claim something so YOU have to prove that the only possible source could be, as you claim, Super911^TMNanoThermite. You haven't even shown how much of the magical Super911^TMNanoThermite it would take to produce said quantities of iron microspheres. Say, how much came from WTC7 and how much from WTC1 or 2? How much came from WTC6?

 

[ozeco41]

Wait, it still comes down to YOU are the one trying to claim something so YOU have to prove that the only possible source could be, as you claim, Super911^TMNanoThermite. You haven't even shown how much of the magical Super911^TMNanoThermite it would take to produce said quantities of iron microspheres. Say, how much came from WTC7 and how much from WTC1 or 2? How much came from WTC6?

It's even sillier. C7 is following normal troll policy - prevent debate progressing by any tactics. In this case he is taking folks down smaller and smaller side tracks. And completely oblivious to the fact that he has circled his own logic at least twice....

Needless to say the microspheres technical issue is completely irrelevant to the trolling objective.

what comes next??? How much paint do we need to protect the microspheres from corrosion....???

 

[leftysergeant]

Derrrp! We overlooked a source of vaporized lead. A lot of it obviuously came from WTC6.

 

[Christopher7]

So what are you waiting or? get the data and the EDS.

What you expect us to prove your assertion

Games
You are making the assertion that office fires produce iron spheres.

 

[leftysergeant]

Games
You are making the assertion that office fires produce iron spheres.

Actually, any really hot fire will, from what I have seen posted in this and similar threads and fora.