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High energy explosvies and tertiary blast waves

Great OP, Liberty.

But I too have to assume you mean tertiary blast injuries rather than waves.

Regardless, it seems to fly over the heads of our bedunker friends that that correction doesn't change your OP whatsoever. It is a point I have argued in other threads using inuries reports from known blasts compared with the WTC events, but without the benefit of professional backup from industry sources. Well done!
Add explosives, along with physics as things that fly over your head. OP is google knowledge, backed up with paranoid conspiracy theories. The OP is based on cherry-picking and quote-mining out of ignorance idiotic truther sites, plagiarizing cherry-picked and quote-mined statements. Plagiarized cherry-picking quote-mine nonsense to support a delusional fantasy, no wonder you jumped on the train of stupid thoughts composed with googled junk and tied together with delusional logic.

Edx wrote: If you have tertiary blast injuries you WILL have primary blast injuries as well.
Your logic never fails to ensure your failure.
it seems to fly over the heads
What did ergo say?
it seems to fly over the heads

Where are the primary blast injuries from explosives? Where are the secondary injuries from explosives?

it seems to fly over the heads
Better look in the mirror when you fling woo like you do.
 
I notice the truthers are still using "squib" to mean "individual steel-cutting/building demolishing charge." Give them enough time, they're going to come up with an entire alternative vocabulary.
 
Have I not seen all this silliness debunked somewhere prior to this?

Sounds awfully familiar. Also suspect the OPer needs to read Cooper and Kurowski* and, perhaps, a couple of others to learn a bit more about explosives before looking bad again.



*Introduction to the Technology of Explosives (Wilfey-VCH)
 
There seems to be alot of confusion in the debunking community, regarding the blast effects of explosives...

So we have evidence of:

- The ground shaking before the collapse

So yes, it is correct to state that we can see all the characteristics of high energy explosives. It is incorrect to assert otherwise.

...
This is a lie made up due to ignorance. The ground was shaking during the collapse. Each WTC tower collapse had the energy equal to 130 2,000 pound bombs. I have been close to 600 pound bombs going off, and the earth moved from a 2,400 feet away. What would happen when 130 2,000 pound bombs go off and all the energy is directed at hitting the ground and the building itself. You make up lies, idiotic ones based on your illogical cherry-picked and quote-mined statements. No one hears explosives, they heard the building collapsing. You are gullible, and can't do physics. E=mgh

What:jaw-dropp (my grandson made me add this)


There seems to be alot of confusion in the debunking community, regarding the blast effects of explosives...

So we have evidence of:...high energy explosives. It is incorrect to assert otherwise.

...
You have nothing! You have 10 years of delusions.
 
How do you know when this footage was taken? How did Jennings and Hess get trapped then? The emergency personnel in this video state that everyone's been evacuated.
Rotten Rudy ordered everyone out ot WTC 7 when he got the word that the towers were unstable. Hess and Jennings were on their way in when the order was given and nobody got the word to them. They arrived after everyone had left. From the way that Jennings described the coffee on the tables, it had to have been a very short time after the evacuation. Do pay more atttention to the video interviews.
 
I echo these sentiments great OP.

Liberty do not be dissuaded by some posts here. They're really is not a whole that can be said in reply to your post. You could have verifiable video of the explosives being planted, and somehow (according to them) it would not be what we are seeing, or there is some reason for it.
We could, at least, be made to admit one mistake if any of you lot could come up with proof of your CD-related squibs or evidence that any high explosives were used onthe perimeter columns. This would, of course, break windows for miles.

Why don't you put your mind to that task instead of squatting here telling engineers and fire fighters what the phenomena they have studied indicate?
 
I echo these sentiments great OP.

Liberty do not be dissuaded by some posts here. They're really is not a whole that can be said in reply to your post. You could have verifiable video of the explosives being planted, and somehow (according to them) it would not be what we are seeing, or there is some reason for it.

Let us know when you get that.....:rolleyes:

10 years of twoofering and you don't have a single piece of credible evidence......not one that would even get to the point of being admissible as evidence!
 
... If explosives were used, we would expect the evidence to be destroyed and no real inspection being allowed, this was the case on 911 ....
NotMelted.jpg

Why do you spread lies?
 
It's OPs like these that really show just how clueless the truthers really are when it comes to their basic understanding of how explosives work in general and the after effects of a large detonation.

Tertiary blast waves? Really?

:dl:
 
Liberty, if you're still around, I'd really like to know why if you are asking questions of explosive experts & you believe that explosives brought down the towers, why you wouldn't ask them their expert opinion if towers brought down the towers or not.
 
Liberty, if you're still around, I'd really like to know why if you are asking questions of explosive experts & you believe that explosives brought down the towers, why you wouldn't ask them their expert opinion if towers brought down the towers or not.

Hell I'd settle for a more specic question, he doesnt have to mention 911 at all. He didn't describe the situation he claims happened on 911, which is that bombs were going off all over the place inside a skyscraper intended to weaken the building.
 
Wait a minute. Bombs that can be easily hidden anywhere, which always go off on time (and never prematurely), that can bring down skyscrapers but only fling people through the air to land unharmed? I know where the conspiracy got these explosives!

Hollywood.
 
No, those only work if you're a protagonist. And even then, not all the time.



@1:38
 
Liberty, if you're still around, I'd really like to know why if you are asking questions of explosive experts & you believe that explosives brought down the towers, why you wouldn't ask them their expert opinion if towers brought down the towers or not.

Whoops, that should be "... if explosives brought down the towers or not."
 
Sorry, didn't know that was aimed at me.

I've never heard the term "tertiary blast waves" before. His quoted experts also aren't describing a wave of any kind. There are secondary blast waves, i.e., reflections of the shockwave off of solid surfaces, which can indeed be significant in large explosions. But there's no accounting for how many times these waves reflect (else we'd also have "quartary blast waves," "quintary blast waves," etc.). It's only a question of whether you get the wave straight from the point of origin, or if it's reflected.

What the experts are describing is bulk fluid motion following the explosion, not waves at all. For example, if you set off a large explosion surrounded by baffles, and then you stand in the flame trench, you will feel what is basically a gust of wind. This is caused by the solid :: gas conversion generating a higher static pressure, which is then equalized at sonic speed by gas motion, also known as wind. There is also convection caused by heating, which creates additional sonic or subsonic fluid motion (more wind).

If you carefully set up this kind of situation, it is quite plausible for one to be physically blown around without being otherwise injured -- winds of several hundred miles per hour correspond to a dynamic pressure of only a couple of PSI, which is eminently survivable. But again, this is not a wave. The difference between waves and fluid motion is like the difference between causing pressure pulses in a stretched out Slinky versus actually carrying that Slinky from one place to another.

In complicated and large explosives we can see additional shockwave tricks, like the Munroe Effect in shaped charges, and the "precursor" effect in nuclear weapons exploded at optimal altitude. Both of these are essentially focusing and constructive interference of shockwaves. Neither is at all relevant to the OP, however. I only mention them out of general interest.

So, in short, the wind could be considered a tertiary effect of an explosive, but there is no well-defined term "tertiary blast wave." Our OP is mixing unfamiliar words.

At least not a borderline stupid comment, like from some previous posters, that ignores what was said in the quote and dishonestly and shamelesly tries to imply that the expert didnt mean explosvies powerful enough to destroy steel columns, when the expert made it very clear that he meant quote: "very high explosive loads" and specifically answered a questions about "demolition charges".... No wonder this forum has such a bad name... I dont even take any pleasure in debunking all these clueless JREF members, i think i might give them health problems in doing so...

I got the term "tertiary blast wave" from reading a bunch of medical journals, as i will show below, so the term was stuck in my head. I doubt that there are two different tertiary blast effects, so "blast wind" may be the only correct term. I can find articles when i look now that only mentions "tertiary blast wind" so it seems that there exist some confusion about the term, i will ask an expert about it.

"Tertiary blast injury: Results from victim being propelled against structure by the blast wave or blast winds."
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...9K-gJW&sig=AHIEtbT0wEHgOaA6Q9F4FrLz4jGsrMcUDg

"Tertiary Blast wave propels individuals onto surfaces/objects or objects onto individuals, causing whole body translocation."
http://www.mendeley.com/research/in...hysics-pathology-and-required-research-focus/

"The tertiary blast wave threw the soldier from his vehicle into the air"
http://www.bmctoday.net/retinatoday/2009/04/article.asp?f=0409_12.php

"Traumatic amputations are seldom seen in blast victims. An additive of primary blast wave, secondary and tertiary blast wave has been proposed"
www.ispub.com/journal/the-internet-...mber-1/blast-injury-brief-review-article.html

R.Mackey wrote: The major problem with the wall-o'-text strawman argument is that the only signs of an explosion being considered here are a few people being blown a few feet.

Again!,

I gave alot of testimones, in which the most logical explanation of the blast effects described, is high energy explosvies.

The total destruction of the WTC 7 lobby, cannot be explained by any jet fuel explosion or falling debris, no reasonable person would asume that debis destroyed the lobby. The video i posted shows alot of dust inside the lobby after one of the towers collapsed, no damage was done to the lobby by this dust cloud, besides some windows that broke. The police that told Jennings to run, mention reports of more explosions, what explosions was he talking about?, this was after both towers had collapsed, and he was worried about explosions and wanted him to run from thebuilding, obviously, the only logical conclusion that can be drawn, is that the policeman got reports of the explosions that caused the damage in the lobby and killed the fire/policemen inside the lobby that Jennings stepped on, and was concerned that more explosions were to be expected. The witness that saw a shockwave ripping through WTC 7, busting out the windows, and a second later the bottom floor caved out and then the building followed after that, is another great example of a witness to what could be high energy explosives.

I showed you quotes, where the explosions made windows explode on a nearby street corner. How there was a series of 15 explosions inside the building, and how the street was shaking before the collapse. People being banged around and picked up in the air at different times, flashes all around the building along with the explosions etc. You must accept, that you cant debunk any of these witnesses, i would not use any of these quotes if you could, these are all witnesses to what could be high energy explosvies...

Arguing that the steel was inspected carefully, is like arguing that the Nazis didnt disslike the jews, its taking it to the history denial level. Inspecting a couple of hundred pieces of steel is not inspecting anyting. Thousands of photos of irrelevant pices of steel means nothing, who cares about some photos, nobody inspected the steal, reporters on the site reported on how there was an ongoing operation to destroy all the steel before any inspection, these are the true facts, and this is why as i have shown before, so many investigators, scientists and engineers were mad, because it meant that they would haft to play with paper- and computer-generated hypotheticals instead of real data... All the very critical pieces of steel that could explain the collapse was immediately destroyed. The mafia was hired to help the clean up, but hey, when corrupt officials hires the mafia to remove the evidence, there is nothing to worry about!... The military demolition units with possibly ties to the CIA, that illegally were in the U.S. and New york with foreknowledge of the attacks, as i showed before, dont seem to bother you either.

Everybody in europe knows who runs your secret COG government, why do you deny the state-sponsored terror network that exist in your country?. You seem to like that your government has been in martial law ever since 911, the dictatorial powers that was put into place after the attack, is to keep you safe?, it was not a coup by the secret government to seize more power?, when did their agenda of world dominance change?, and why do we see these same war elites continuing working with Al-qaida after 911 and pushing their world order agenda. In many countries today, you look like a cook if you talk about CIA being an intelligence agency working for the president and gathering information. This is 2012, not the 60s when you could make excuses for the mafia....

Redtail: Liberty, if you're still around, I'd really like to know why if you are asking questions of explosive experts & you believe that explosives brought down the towers, why you wouldn't ask them their expert opinion if explosives brought down the towers or not.

I dont care that much about anybodys opinion, not many people have studied 911, and most experts like this are simple human beings like everyone else that has bad judgment and lack any real critical thinking, we live in a very damaged society controlled mostly by oligarchs. 911 is a big subject and i only respect the opinion of somebody who have truly researched it. I did ask a couple of questions regarding some basement explosions on 911, nothing else. Why do you think someones opinion matters that much?. You can find out the only right answer by yourself, then if 20 explosvies experts dont agree with you, then you know how they are all wrong. Wouldn't it be nice being able to use logical thinking and not haft to rely on "experts"?. On 911, we see blast effects, that CAN be explained by very high explosives loads, and that most likely in my opinion are explained with high energy explosvies. This is a fact, we dont need to ask any experts.
 
I got the term "tertiary blast wave" from reading a bunch of medical journals, as i will show below, so the term was stuck in my head. I doubt that there are two different tertiary blast effects, so "blast wind" may be the only correct term. I can find articles when i look now that only mentions "tertiary blast wind" so it seems that there exist some confusion about the term, i will ask an expert about it.
You're backtracking on your own claim. The victim we were discussing claims to have a wall blown into them, which knocked them down and causing injury not consistent with explosions. Then you post this:

"Tertiary blast injury: Results from victim being propelled against structure by the blast wave or blast winds."
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...9K-gJW&sig=AHIEtbT0wEHgOaA6Q9F4FrLz4jGsrMcUDg

Which is a completely different mechanism of injury. Tertiary blast injuries are those caused by a people being hurled by a blast wave into things...NOT things hurling into people.

So what is it you are trying to discuss here? You are not presenting evidence that supports your assertions.


The total destruction of the WTC 7 lobby, cannot be explained by any jet fuel explosion or falling debris, no reasonable person would asume that debis destroyed the lobby.

I stopped reading your wall of text after this big, fat lie. You're basing your convictions on quote-mines and ignorance.
 

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