What's so fantastic about Apple?

[OCaptain]

Except that the whole tablet experience is unknown to people who haven't actually bought the tablet yet. To convince people your "user experience" is "insanely great" before they buy your product is what marketing is for. Now if the user experience isn't at least reasonable, then the marketing won't save you. I'm sure the iPad is a nice little machine that does what it's owners want it to do. That doesn't really mean it's Jobs' gift to computing.

At this point, it's all about word-of-mouth. My friend sees mine, asks what it is, followed quickly by "can I try it?" Five minutes of playing Infinity Blade II, Airplaying Netflix videos to the AppleTV for the kids to watch, or sharing and viewing other people's pics via Instagram, they're hooked. I have to pry it out of their hands when I want it back.

 

[John Albert]

In the vernacular, I would say a PC is a desktop or notebook computer running windows.

So you're using the acronym "PC" to mean "personal computer," but also attributing the same term to an exception to that definition, on the stipulation that it's also got to be running Windows? No.

That makes no sense. It's like saying an "SUV" is a "sport-utility vehicle that is not made by Ford." I think you should maybe consult a dictionary, because your own definition is self-contradictory.

PC has become synonymous with 'personal computer running windows.'

Some people without any basic general tech knowledge of computers, who form their opinions entirely around TV ads might consider that a reasonable definition, but as I've already pointed out, they'd be wrong.

That "definition" is not a definition at all. It's a fictional false impression promoted by the Apple marketing department, especially in those smarmy Apple attack ads from the mid-late 2000s.

The actual definition of "PC" is:

PC 

1. Peace Corps.
2. personal computer.3. politically correct.
4. printed circuit.
5. professional corporation.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/PC​

So then, what is the definition of "personal computer"?

personal computer 
noun
a microcomputer designed for individual use, as by a person in an office or at home or school, for such applications as word processing, data management, financial analysis, or computer games. Abbreviation: PC

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/personal+computer​

Let's see what Wikipedia has to say:

A personal computer (PC) is any general-purpose computer whose size, capabilities, and original sales price make it useful for individuals, and which is intended to be operated directly by an end-user with no intervening computer operator.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_computer​

Notice that Mac OSX is actually listed as one of the operating systems that run on personal computers ("PCs"). How about that?

"PC" is an acronym that means "personal computer." Most specifically, "PC" computers are machines intended for use by individuals in a personal setting (as opposed to servers), that are built around the x86 architecture. The designation "PC" in fact originated with the IBM Personal Computer, the first machine to use the Intel x86 architecture, hence the name "PC" being applied to that arch.

The current Apple Macintoshes (like nearly all current desktop or laptop PCs) are also built upon the exact same x86 architecture as machines that can be bought with Microsoft Windows pre-installed. The fact that Apple Macintoshes are sold with a different OS installed does not in any way mitigate the fact that they're built on the same x86 architecture. They're just as much "PCs" as the Windows machines.

There is no significant difference at all in the hardware of a Mac, from that of any other x86 "PC" sold by any other company. Nearly all of the components inside a Macintosh are built by a number of manufacturers who make the same exact hardware for non-Apple x86 computers. The Mac "logic board" (called the "motherboard" in normal computer lingo) is manufactured by ASUS, around a motherboard chipset designed and manufactured by Intel. The RAM in a Mac is made by Samsung, Hynix and Micron. The graphics/video adapters for Macs are made by ATI. The hard drives are made by Seagate. All these same manufacturers make the same components for other PC manufacturers, in the same factories, right alongside the ones made for Apple.

So if you look at a Mac in terms of what it is actually, physically comprised of, there's no difference between it and any PC made by any other manufacturer.

The "Mac vs. PC" thing is a myth, promoted through marketing BS. There's no physical difference, except for the OS, the fancy case, the brand name, and the price.

 

[John Albert]

Are reviews 100% opinion ? Or do they consist of a mix of some proportion of subjective and non-subjective criteria ?

They're a mix, but the conclusions are still largely a matter of opinion.

You keep falling back on these absolute positions. The issue is not nearly as cut and dried.

I'm not falling back on anything "absolute" except facts.

If one HDD manufacturer got consistently poor reviews, and one got consistently glowing reviews, do you still posit the reviews would prove nothing ? Aren't some ... hardware manufactures for example - empirically better than others ? Longer life, lower return rate, etc. ? Things we can objectively measure ?

But that's not what we were debating. You're moving the goalposts.

We're not comparing one company that gets consistently stellar reviews against another company that gets consistently crappy ones. I said that Apple gets some crappy reviews also, just like any other tech company. Their reviews are mixed. Therefore, engaging in a melee of pitting review against review is a useless endeavor.

If you want to compare objective specs and benchmarks, that's one thing. But positing subjective opinions to back up one's own subjective opinions really holds no water.

 

[OCaptain]

So you're using the acronym "PC" to mean "personal computer," but also attributing the same term to an exception to that definition, on the stipulation that it's also got to be running Windows? No.

That makes no sense. It's like saying an "SUV" is a "sport-utility vehicle that is not made by Ford." I think you should maybe consult a dictionary, because your own definition is self-contradictory.





Some people without any basic general tech knowledge of computers, who form their opinions entirely around TV ads might consider that a reasonable definition, but as I've already pointed out, they'd be wrong.

That "definition" is not a definition at all. It's a fictional false impression promoted by the Apple marketing department, especially in those smarmy Apple attack ads from the mid-late 2000s.

The actual definition of "PC" is:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/PC​

So then, what is the definition of "personal computer"?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/personal+computer​

Let's see what Wikipedia has to say:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_computer​

Notice that Mac OSX is actually listed as one of the operating systems that run on personal computers ("PCs"). How about that?

"PC" is an acronym that means "personal computer." Most specifically, "PC" computers are machines intended for use by individuals in a personal setting (as opposed to servers), that are built around the x86 architecture. The designation "PC" in fact originated with the IBM Personal Computer, the first machine to use the Intel x86 architecture, hence the name "PC" being applied to that arch.

The current Apple Macintoshes (like nearly all current desktop or laptop PCs) are also built upon the exact same x86 architecture as machines that can be bought with Microsoft Windows pre-installed. The fact that Apple Macintoshes are sold with a different OS installed does not in any way mitigate the fact that they're built on the same x86 architecture. They're just as much "PCs" as the Windows machines.

There is no significant difference at all in the hardware of a Mac, from that of any other x86 "PC" sold by any other company. Nearly all of the components inside a Macintosh are built by a number of manufacturers who make the same exact hardware for non-Apple x86 computers. The Mac "logic board" (called the "motherboard" in normal computer lingo) is manufactured by ASUS, around a motherboard chipset designed and manufactured by Intel. The RAM in a Mac is made by Samsung, Hynix and Micron. The graphics/video adapters for Macs are made by ATI. The hard drives are made by Seagate. All these same manufacturers make the same components for other PC manufacturers, in the same factories, right alongside the ones made for Apple.

So if you look at a Mac in terms of what it is actually, physically comprised of, there's no difference between it and any PC made by any other manufacturer.

The "Mac vs. PC" thing is a myth, promoted through marketing BS. There's no physical difference, except for the OS, the fancy case, the brand name, and the price.

Why is it that everyone but you seems to know the difference between the labels "Mac" and "PC"? This is getting old.

 

[bit_pattern]

NSFW!

 

[TheL8Elvis]

So you're using the acronym "PC" to mean "personal computer," but also attributing the same term to an exception to that definition, on the stipulation that it's also got to be running Windows? No.

Yes.

That's the joy of definitions. When enough people agree on what something means, that is an accepted definition.

Notice that Mac OSX is actually listed as one of the operating systems that run on personal computers ("PCs"). How about that?

Yeah, no kidding. And my tablet is a PC ! And my smartphone is a PC too !!! Hell, my ebook reader is PC !! W00t !!!!!!!!!

How useful is that ? Hey, call me on my PC !!!!!

I think I already saved you the effort, but you left that part out.

I understand and acknowledge, in the interest of saving time and typing, that apple computers are technically 'personal computers'. Hell, my smartphone or tablet is probably a 'personal computer'. But that's why the context of the usage matters. Once you take it out of context, meh. It get's to be a less useful term.

The "Mac vs. PC" thing is a myth, promoted through marketing BS. There's no physical difference, except for the OS, the fancy case, the brand name, and the price.

And a way for apple to distinguish themselves from windows. Yes, I think we all know this. I guess I still don't know why it matters.

ETA:

Why is it that everyone but you seems to know the difference between the labels "Mac" and "PC"? This is getting old.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

I find it interesting that the same guys asking for proof that Apple does well because of marketing are arguing that a Mac is not a PC based on a false distinction/definition/labeling first proliferated by Apple's marketing.

 

[John Albert]

Why is it that everyone but you seems to know the difference between the labels "Mac" and "PC"? This is getting old.

Because you don't have a clue what the hell you're talking about, and I do.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Because you don't have a clue what the hell you're talking about, and I do.

</thread>

 

[banquetbear]

Because you don't have a clue what the hell you're talking about, and I do.

...stand outside and Apple shop: ask everyone who walks out of the shop did you buy a PC or a Mac? How many people would answer a PC?

Stand outside a shop selling mainly PC's: ask those who didn't buy a Mac: did you buy a PC or a Mac...how many would answer a Mac?

PC and Mac have come to mean something in common usage. Surely you know this. In this thread when someone talks about a PC: you know what they are talking about, don't you? Whats with the game-playing with the definitions?

 

[John Albert]

Apparently some of you have trouble with reading.

I'll say it again, and even highlight the main points:

The current Apple Macintoshes are built upon the exact same x86 architecture as machines that can be bought with Microsoft Windows pre-installed. The fact that Apple Macintoshes are sold with a different OS installed does not in any way mitigate the fact that they're built on the same x86 architecture.

There is no significant difference at all in the hardware of a Mac, from that of any other x86 "PC" computer sold by any other company. Nearly all of the components inside a Macintosh are built by a number of manufacturers who make the same exact hardware for non-Apple x86 computers. The Mac "logic board" is manufactured by ASUS, around a motherboard chipset designed and manufactured by Intel. The RAM in a Mac is made by Samsung, Hynix and Micron. The graphics/video adapters for Macs are made by ATI. The hard drives are made by Seagate. All the same manufacturers who make parts for Macs make the same components for other PCs, right in the same factories alongside the ones made for Macs.
So if you look at a Mac in terms of what it is actually, physically comprised of, there's no difference between it and any PC made by any other manufacturer. The "Mac vs. PC" thing is just a marketing myth.

 

[John Albert]

Yeah, no kidding. And my tablet is a PC ! And my smartphone is a PC too !!! Hell, my ebook reader is PC !! W00t !!!!!!!!!

How useful is that ? Hey, call me on my PC !!!!!

That's a strawman argument. I never said any of that.

Your tablet not a PC, nor is your phone, nor your ebook reader.

 

[Kid Eager]

Apparently some of you have trouble with reading.

I'll say it again, and even highlight the main points:

The current Apple Macintoshes are built upon the exact same x86 architecture as machines that can be bought with Microsoft Windows pre-installed. The fact that Apple Macintoshes are sold with a different OS installed does not in any way mitigate the fact that they're built on the same x86 architecture.

There is no significant difference at all in the hardware of a Mac, from that of any other x86 "PC" computer sold by any other company. Nearly all of the components inside a Macintosh are built by a number of manufacturers who make the same exact hardware for non-Apple x86 computers. The Mac "logic board" is manufactured by ASUS, around a motherboard chipset designed and manufactured by Intel. The RAM in a Mac is made by Samsung, Hynix and Micron. The graphics/video adapters for Macs are made by ATI. The hard drives are made by Seagate. All the same manufacturers who make parts for Macs make the same components for other PCs, right in the same factories alongside the ones made for Macs.
So if you look at a Mac in terms of what it is actually, physically comprised of, there's no difference between it and any PC made by any other manufacturer. The "Mac vs. PC" thing is just a marketing myth.

That may be relevant if that's the argument that was being made.

What is actually being said is that in common usage, "PC" is the term that is used to describe Windows personal computers, and "Mac" is the term that is used to describe Apple desktop and laptop computers.

 

[John Albert]

What is actually being said is that in common usage, "PC" is the term that is used to describe Windows personal computers, and "Mac" is the term that is used to describe Apple desktop and laptop computers.

And I'm saying that is a misnomer.

When people say that, and especially when they base arguments around that terminology, it reveals their own ignorance.

 

[kajata]

Because you don't have a clue what the hell you're talking about, and I do.

You're being incredibly silly.

 

[Kid Eager]

And I'm saying that is a misnomer.

When people say that, and especially when they base arguments around that terminology, it reveals their own ignorance.

The Well of Lost Arguments must be running dry if that's the best you can do. It's in common usage and vernacular - that is the point.

 

[Kid Eager]

That's a strawman argument. I never said any of that.

Your tablet not a PC, nor is your phone, nor your ebook reader.

Well actually, the tablet is a PC (according to Wiki...).

 

[kajata]

That's a strawman argument. I never said any of that.

Your tablet not a PC, nor is your phone, nor your ebook reader.

But in the very same Wikipedia article you cited they are considered PCs.

 

[John Albert]

What is actually being said is that in common usage, "PC" is the term that is used to describe Windows personal computers

Well, there's your first fallacy right there. "Windows" does not make personal computers. Microsoft is a company that produces a line of operating systems, called Windows, that runs on any computer of x86 "PC" architecture, including Macs.

Apple is another company that produces another operating system that runs on that same x86 "PC" architecture, called "Mac OSX," that it sells pre-installed on its own x86 "PC" computers. Mac OSX can also be installed on a non-Apple PC, provided it has drivers to support all its hardware components.

The "Mac vs. PC" thing is a false dichotomy promoted through an Apple marketing scheme, intended to collectivize and deride all other computer manufacturers.

If you know the truth of the matter, you realize that Apple's hardware is the same as that of other machines their marketing department calls "PCs," and their machines are jointly manufactured by a number of those very same manufacturers.

"Mac" is the term that is used to describe Apple desktop and laptop computers.

What about a Dell netbook running Mac OSX? Is that a "Mac" or a "PC"?

How about an Apple MacBook running Windows? Is that a "Mac"? Or is it a "PC"?

What if the same Apple MacBook has Windows installed instead of OSX? Is that a "Mac"? Or is it a "PC"?

It's a false dichotomy. A marketing gimmick, nothing more. To believe it's a real distinction is basically falling for a scam.

 

[John Albert]

But in the very same Wikipedia article you cited they are considered PCs.

Well I personally wouldn't consider as tablet one, unless it's built on the x86 platform, can run a full-fledged OS just like a laptop and desktop, and has the ability to accept the same kinds of devices and peripherals that any other PC would. Some tablets might in that case be considered "PCs."

I naturally assumed he was talking about an iPad.