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Dragon Family lawsuit against the United Nations

Anders Lindman said:
But let's get real here.
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Sure, here's how you do that:
Post evidence for mind control that is "Like programming replicants in Blade Runner", not unrelated forms you post "evidence" for.
Then post evidence your secret cabal exists.
Then post evidence the Dragon Family exists.
Then connect all these subjects through evidence.

Until you do that, don't comment about "getting real".

Now, as you have stated you have no idea if mind control is real, or if you are under mind control, why should we believe that it is real, or possible, and why should we assume you not to be under its influence?
 
I still haven't seen any debunking of the quote I posted earlier:

"In a May 13, 1968 article in the Providence Evening Bulletin, [42] Estabrooks is described as a former consultant for the FBI and CIA, and is quoted as saying that, "the key to creating an effective spy or assassin rests in splitting a man's personality, or creating multipersonality, with the aid of hypnotism. This is not science fiction. This has and is being done. I have done it." P. 162" -- http://www.wanttoknow.info/bluebird10pg
 
Tomtomkent said:
And it remains true: The idea is still condescending garbage remains true.

I will go further: If you can not make a case why and you refuse to support it with evidence, what do you hope to gain in this conversation mr Troll?
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"ARTICHOKE operations involved detailed, systematic creation of specific amnesia barriers, new identities and hypnotically implanted codes and triggers. An ARTICHOKE document dated 7 January 1953 [15] describes the experimental creation of multiple personality in two 19-year old girls by the CIA. "H" is used as shorthand for hypnotic, hypnotized, or hypnotism:

"These subjects have clearly demonstrated that they can pass from a fully awake state to a deep H controlled state via the telephone, via some very subtle signal that cannot be detected by other persons in the room, and without the other individuals being able to note the change. It has been clearly shown that individuals can be induced into H by telephone, by receiving written matter, or by the use of code, signal, or words. Control of those hypnotized can be passed from one individual to another without great difficulty. It has also been shown by experimentation with these girls that they can act as unwilling couriers for information purposes, and that they can be conditioned to a point where they believe a change in identity on their part even on the polygraph." P. 32" -- http://www.wanttoknow.info/bluebird10pg
 
Tomtomkent said:
Sure, here's how you do that:
Post evidence for mind control that is "Like programming replicants in Blade Runner", not unrelated forms you post "evidence" for.
Then post evidence your secret cabal exists.
Then post evidence the Dragon Family exists.
Then connect all these subjects through evidence.

Until you do that, don't comment about "getting real".

Now, as you have stated you have no idea if mind control is real, or if you are under mind control, why should we believe that it is real, or possible, and why should we assume you not to be under its influence?
Click to expand...

Assume whatever you want about whether I'm mind controlled or not. As for evidence, see my previous post.
 
Anders Lindman said:
I still haven't seen any debunking of the quote I posted earlier:

"In a May 13, 1968 article in the Providence Evening Bulletin, [42] Estabrooks is described as a former consultant for the FBI and CIA, and is quoted as saying that, "the key to creating an effective spy or assassin rests in splitting a man's personality, or creating multipersonality, with the aid of hypnotism. This is not science fiction. This has and is being done. I have done it." P. 162" -- http://www.wanttoknow.info/bluebird10pg
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Point out which part of that is meant to be like "programming a replicant from Blade Runner." Please remember you stated that merely encouraging somebody to look at their memories differently and adopt a new viewpoint was not enough. You wanted a full scale personality implant.

Please also point out which part of that quote is not an opinion and is repeatable testable study results. Because with out those, what is there to debunk? An unfounded claim?
 
Anders Lindman said:
"ARTICHOKE operations involved detailed, systematic creation of specific amnesia barriers, new identities and hypnotically implanted codes and triggers. An ARTICHOKE document dated 7 January 1953 [15] describes the experimental creation of multiple personality in two 19-year old girls by the CIA. "H" is used as shorthand for hypnotic, hypnotized, or hypnotism:

"These subjects have clearly demonstrated that they can pass from a fully awake state to a deep H controlled state via the telephone, via some very subtle signal that cannot be detected by other persons in the room, and without the other individuals being able to note the change. It has been clearly shown that individuals can be induced into H by telephone, by receiving written matter, or by the use of code, signal, or words. Control of those hypnotized can be passed from one individual to another without great difficulty. It has also been shown by experimentation with these girls that they can act as unwilling couriers for information purposes, and that they can be conditioned to a point where they believe a change in identity on their part even on the polygraph." P. 32" -- http://www.wanttoknow.info/bluebird10pg
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Unrelated to the question at hand. You stated you could not support your claims with evidence. I asked what you hoped to achieved. What you continue to post is a story about mind control that is 1) something a moderate amount of research will debunk. ( http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4278 ) and 2) A completely different form of brainwashing / mind control to that which you described the Super Secret Cabal using.

You do understand that unless you prove the SPECIFIC THING YOU DESCRIBED you are wasting your posts?
 
Tomtomkent said:
Point out which part of that is meant to be like "programming a replicant from Blade Runner." Please remember you stated that merely encouraging somebody to look at their memories differently and adopt a new viewpoint was not enough. You wanted a full scale personality implant.

Please also point out which part of that quote is not an opinion and is repeatable testable study results. Because with out those, what is there to debunk? An unfounded claim?
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You have misunderstood what I have posted earlier. I have claimed that mind control is NOT like the false memory of a Replicant in the Bladerunner movie.

As for repeated results, see: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7979171&postcount=1125
 
Tomtomkent said:
You stated you could not support your claims with evidence.
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Wrong. I said that I didn't know whether mind control is real or not. The quotes I posted say that mind control is real. So that's evidence, but I can't verify that evidence myself. Remember, I believe all information can be disinfo, even mainstream scientific results.
 
Anders Lindman said:
Well, if you don't accept the premise, then what are we discussing? :confused:
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That wasn't the claim. The claim is that you accept it selectively and preferentially. You accept mind control only when it can be used to support your belief; you reject it when it refutes your beliefs. You want to have your cake and eat it too.
 
Anders Lindman said:
You have misunderstood what I have posted earlier. I have claimed that mind control is NOT like the false memory of a Replicant in the Bladerunner movie.
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Anders Lindman said:
That's not what I meant. I meant the total programming of a lifetime memory into a person. Very much like the Replicants in the Bladerunner movie. I haven't moved any goal post. I have stated that from the beginning.
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So by "Very much like" you meant "Not"?
 
JayUtah said:
That wasn't the claim. The claim is that you accept it selectively and preferentially. You accept mind control only when it can be used to support your belief; you reject it when it refutes your beliefs. You want to have your cake and eat it too.
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No, you are mistaken. Perhaps the misunderstanding is that you take for granted that everybody has fixed beliefs about everything. When it comes to mind control I think there is something to it, but I only very recently have looked at mind control info. In a way I'm more skeptical than the ordinary skeptics, because if for example mainstream science said that mind control is real, then most skeptics would accept that claim while I would still be unsure until I can verify it for myself.
 
Anders Lindman said:
Wrong. I said that I didn't know whether mind control is real or not. The quotes I posted say that mind control is real. So that's evidence, but I can't verify that evidence myself. Remember, I believe all information can be disinfo, even mainstream scientific results.
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Those are not "evidence" they are "claims" and "stories". Where is the peer reviewed, repeatable science?
 
Anders Lindman said:
I just posted evidence in my previous posts. That should be real enough. We are not discussing Santa Claus here.
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Obviously not. There is evidence for the existance of Saint Nicholas a few hundred years ago. More evidence than the claims, opinions and debunked tosh you like to pretend is evidence here.
 
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