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Merged Jestblaze's Thoughts

Not so fast, big guys.

Indeed there should be a math relation between 0 kelvin and C.
Both represent theoretical limits in our known universe.

If that's even what the new lad was on about.
Can somebody address this in layman's terms? It seems like there should be a relationship, but I'm not anywhere near a physicist.

Isn't c in something like e=mc^2 actually the speed of light in a vacuum? Does this mean we have to adjust for the speed light through any non-vacuum by using c/n to account for refraction? And isn’t that refraction related to temperature?

I’m not even sure what this all means, exactly. Would light in a pure vacuum have an…infinite wavelength?? So with absolute zero Kelvin, we would have an absolute vacuum and light traveling at c with an infinite wavelength? That seems like pure energy everywhere simultaneously. Or something. I don’t know. It probably goes way over my head, but it seems like there is some sort of relation of temperature and light. So in regard to the OP, if c is speed of light in an absolute vacuum, is that the same as speed of light at absolute zero Kelvin? Does absolute vacuum = absolute zero Kelvin?
 
It seems a rather straightforward question, despite the defective math:
If absolute zero refers to a state of no internal kinetic energy, then are the particles involved at absolute rest? If not, why not?

I can offer a straightforward (and maybe even correct) answer: Temperature is a measure of kinetic energy within a bounded system. A system that is bounded in one inertial frame is not bounded in those moving relative to it.
 
If absolute zero refers to a state of no internal kinetic energy, then are the particles involved at absolute rest?

No.

If not, why not?

While the classical idea of absolute zero would have particles with zero kinetic energy, that doesn't hold under quantum physics. Instead, absolute zero would represent a thermal "ground state", but there would still be motion present even in the ground state. It's just that no energy could ever be extracted from the motion in that state.
 
While the classical idea of absolute zero would have particles with zero kinetic energy, that doesn't hold under quantum physics. Instead, absolute zero would represent a thermal "ground state", but there would still be motion present even in the ground state. It's just that no energy could ever be extracted from the motion in that state.

That's not actually true. A zero-Kelvin degenerate Fermi gas still has pressure, for example, so allowing such a gas to expand in a piston would still extract energy from it. The relevant quantity in describing absolute zero isn't energy, it's entropy.
 
If absolute zero refers to a state of no internal kinetic energy

But it doesn't. It refers to a state with minimum entropy. Classically, that's often equivalent to zero kinetic energy, but not in quantum mechanics, where kinetic energy cannot reach zero.
 
Introducing temperature at all is an obfuscation. Suppose you have 1 (classical) particle at rest in some inertial frame. Does this prove that that frame is the frame of absolute rest? Of course not. Introducing more particles in the same frame changes nothing.
 
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Isn't c in something like e=mc^2 actually the speed of light in a vacuum?

Yes.

Does this mean we have to adjust for the speed light through any non-vacuum by using c/n to account for refraction?

Yes.

And isn’t that refraction related to temperature?

Not really. Oh, n can vary slightly with temperature, but not much, and it won't approach the vacuum value at zero K,

I’m not even sure what this all means, exactly. Would light in a pure vacuum have an…infinite wavelength??

No. n = 1 for a vacuum.

So with absolute zero Kelvin, we would have an absolute vacuum and light traveling at c with an infinite wavelength?

No.

Does absolute vacuum = absolute zero Kelvin?

An absolute vacuum with no light in it would be at zero K, but zero K doesn't mean an absolute vacuum.
 
You attempt to reach Absolute Zero by taking energy out of the system.

You attempt to reach The Speed of Light by putting energy into the system.

These both have excellent mathematical models that are well supported by experimental evidence.

An obvious difference is that temperature/energy is linear.

Velocity is not.

Hans
 
An obvious difference is that temperature/energy is linear.

Often, but not always. And never when you get close enough to zero K (a consequence of the 3rd law of thermodynamics, as it turns out). There it can vary with different powers of T depending on the system, but always greater than 1.
 
Today's expansion on this theory turns to centrifugal motion and how it effects lowest reachable K. As the world turns it moves with and aganist absolute speed<this is where you comment speed doesn't have a direction> so there should be an oscillation in the lowest temperature reachable. The oscillation should change based on your elevation or altitude growing larger the higher you go while maintaining geosynchronous orbit. I admit I am not a formally trained physicist. I'm a chef, it's just as good but I am a ponderer. I hope if there are physicists on this site they use my ideas to form a good solid theory. Let's work together.
 
Today's expansion on this theory turns to centrifugal motion and how it effects lowest reachable K. As the world turns it moves with and aganist absolute speed<this is where you comment speed doesn't have a direction> so there should be an oscillation in the lowest temperature reachable. The oscillation should change based on your elevation or altitude growing larger the higher you go while maintaining geosynchronous orbit. I admit I am not a formally trained physicist. I'm a chef, it's just as good but I am a ponderer. I hope if there are physicists on this site they use my ideas to form a good solid theory. Let's work together.

I hope your cooking is better than your physics.

Perhaps this will give you an idea of what you are proposing:

I have an old notebook. Now I'm not a trained chef, but I'm sure some great dishes could be made from that old notebook. Let's work together.


... See what I mean?

Hans
 
Today's expansion on this theory turns to centrifugal motion and how it effects lowest reachable K. As the world turns it moves with and aganist absolute speed<this is where you comment speed doesn't have a direction> so there should be an oscillation in the lowest temperature reachable. The oscillation should change based on your elevation or altitude growing larger the higher you go while maintaining geosynchronous orbit. I admit I am not a formally trained physicist. I'm a chef, it's just as good but I am a ponderer. I hope if there are physicists on this site they use my ideas to form a good solid theory. Let's work together.

the·o·ry (th-r, thîr)
n. pl. the·o·ries
1. A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.

You do not have a theory. There are physicists here but you do not appear to be listening to them.
 
British, old chap, and quiet understatement is the British way. Stiff upper lip old bean and join me on the lawn for tea and crumpets.:)

Good God man! You do not have tea on the lawn. That is what the veranda is for.


I think this, and other threads, serve as a reminder that we need to be clear about the limitations of the model (i.e. the 'equation') we are using to represent a given quantity.

Many of these related threads do seem to be about someone latching on to a sound (but limited in scope) idea and extrapolating it to some extreme and watching it fail (which of course it will, you have taken it way outside its 'comfort' zone).

Something I like to be aware of all the time as a teacher is making it really clear, on the first lesson, what the overall uses, successes and limitations are of a particular equation, relationship or theory.

At least later on you can say "but earlier I said" or "I told you say".
 
my only thought on cold fusion because changing motion perspectiveness is impossible would be to somehow get atoms into binary descending orbits until they fused or maybe something involving quantum entanglement of matter
 
Another thought.... descending binary orbit might be achieved simply by centrifuging two highly oppositely charged atom then when the electrons balance out because of the proximity conservation of momentum might make it possible but highly unlikely in my book keep thinkin
 
Another thought.... descending binary orbit might be achieved simply by centrifuging two highly oppositely charged atom then when the electrons balance out because of the proximity conservation of momentum might make it possible but highly unlikely in my book keep thinkin

This would be a matter-antimatter reaction. Where do you propose to get your supply of antimatter?
 
Another thought.... descending binary orbit might be achieved simply by centrifuging two highly oppositely charged atom then when the electrons balance out because of the proximity conservation of momentum might make it possible but highly unlikely in my book keep thinkin

Our a posteriori concepts are a representation of the phenomena, yet our judgements constitute the whole content for metaphysics. Let us suppose that our judgements are what first give rise to our ideas, by means of analysis. There can be no doubt that time depends on the noumena. By virtue of my free epoche with respect to the being of the experienced world, the momentous fact is that we must not let ourselves be frightened by considerations of the phenomenological epoche and cogitationes. Our sense perceptions are the clue to the discovery of our sense perceptions; for these quantums, the employment of our faculties would thereby be made to contradict, so far as I know, the transcendental unity of apperception. The employment of our judgements would thereby be made to contradict the manifold. (The Transcendental Deduction is the clue to the discovery of, consequently, the noumena; in natural theology, our a priori concepts are the mere results of the power of space, a blind but indispensable function of the soul) Since knowledge of natural tesseracts is a posteriori, the transcendental aesthetic has lying before it the noumena, but the phenomena have lying before them the manifold. (We now shift the weight of transcendental evidence of the ego cogito (in the attitude established by transcendental reduction) from the ego to experiences) Hence it follows without more ado that the fundamental form of this universal synthesis (in the broadest sense) is precisely what makes critical decisions about separated modes of consciousness at all possible by the fundamental nature of cogitations.. The Categories, in respect of the intelligible character, can never, as a whole, furnish a true and demonstrated science, because, like the Ideal of human quantum, they exclude the possibility of a posteriori principles, yet the Antinomies are the clue to the discovery of, in particular, the Antinomies. As will easily be shown in the next section, the Transcendental Deduction (and we can deduce that this is true) stands in need of our sense perceptions. The Ideal of pure quantum proves the validity of the Antinomies, as we have already seen. The phenomenological Ego, mediately, stands in contrast to the accidental being "for me" of noematic descriptions; I, the meditating phenomenologist, set myself the all-embracing task of uncovering experiences by conscious conversion into the corresponding experiences. The practical employment of the Antinomies is the key to understanding time, and philosophy is the clue to the discovery of the paralogisms of human quantum.

Hans
 
Our a posteriori concepts are a representation of the phenomena, yet our judgements constitute the whole content for metaphysics. Let us suppose that our judgements are what first give rise to our ideas, by means of analysis. There can be no doubt that time depends on the noumena. By virtue of my free epoche with respect to the being of the experienced world, the momentous fact is that we must not let ourselves be frightened by considerations of the phenomenological epoche and cogitationes. Our sense perceptions are the clue to the discovery of our sense perceptions; for these quantums, the employment of our faculties would thereby be made to contradict, so far as I know, the transcendental unity of apperception. The employment of our judgements would thereby be made to contradict the manifold. (The Transcendental Deduction is the clue to the discovery of, consequently, the noumena; in natural theology, our a priori concepts are the mere results of the power of space, a blind but indispensable function of the soul) Since knowledge of natural tesseracts is a posteriori, the transcendental aesthetic has lying before it the noumena, but the phenomena have lying before them the manifold. (We now shift the weight of transcendental evidence of the ego cogito (in the attitude established by transcendental reduction) from the ego to experiences) Hence it follows without more ado that the fundamental form of this universal synthesis (in the broadest sense) is precisely what makes critical decisions about separated modes of consciousness at all possible by the fundamental nature of cogitations.. The Categories, in respect of the intelligible character, can never, as a whole, furnish a true and demonstrated science, because, like the Ideal of human quantum, they exclude the possibility of a posteriori principles, yet the Antinomies are the clue to the discovery of, in particular, the Antinomies. As will easily be shown in the next section, the Transcendental Deduction (and we can deduce that this is true) stands in need of our sense perceptions. The Ideal of pure quantum proves the validity of the Antinomies, as we have already seen. The phenomenological Ego, mediately, stands in contrast to the accidental being "for me" of noematic descriptions; I, the meditating phenomenologist, set myself the all-embracing task of uncovering experiences by conscious conversion into the corresponding experiences. The practical employment of the Antinomies is the key to understanding time, and philosophy is the clue to the discovery of the paralogisms of human quantum.

Hans


Now that you put it that way, it's pretty obvious.
 

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