What's so fantastic about Apple?

[megaresp]

You appear to be overlooking the fact that one trait (marketing) might be the cause of the other (customer satisfaction). I understand most religious adherents feel a high degree of "customer satisfaction" from their chosen god(s), as well.

What do you imagine "marketing" is? And how does it work its magic?

 

[Kid Eager]

I'm sorry, how does replacing Mac vs PC with Dem vs Republicans (or the other way around) prove that it's not just one camp exercising cognitive dissonance?

And, ftr, most of the conversations here wouldn't work as Dem vs Repub...just sayin...

heh... my bad. All US politics looks the same flavour of crazy from a distance....

 

[OCaptain]

Well, that's why I'm an Android guy because Google are building new models of open source IP [qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif[/qimg]

While apple is trying to cling to outmoded and archaic notions of IP [qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/images/icons/icon13.gif[/qimg]

Dinosaurs don't survive with old business models

I've got to agree that the real choice between Google and Apple comes down to this-

Closed and controlled vs free and open.

But the funny part is that it's the same argument that Woz and Jobs had back in the garage when trying to decide what to do with the Apple I PCs they were building. Woz wanted to give them away but Jobs wanted to sell them. Woz wanted to put ports and slots in it but Jobs wanted to close it to simplify it for ppeople who WEREN'T techies nor hobbyists.

We can wonder how many of us would remember Apple if Woz had won that argument.

 

[OCaptain]

Yet Google can do it for free. Why is that exactly?

Well, I'll stick with the Apple ibook store. It has many more eyes on it than does Google.

I didn't even know Google had a bookstore until you said so!

 

[OCaptain]

Because they don't?

Ah, thank you for clarifying that for us.

 

[bit_pattern]

Well, I'll stick with the Apple ibook store. It has many more eyes on it than does Google.

I didn't even know Google had a bookstore until you said so!

Well obviously you don't own an Android device because Marketplace is now an App and Book store and its impossible not to notice how heavily books are now being promoted. And you do realise that Android now outsells Apple, no, and that Apple ibooks won't have "many more eyes" for much longer?

 

[bit_pattern]

We can wonder how many of us would remember Apple if Woz had won that argument.

Like I said - outmoded business model. It might have worked 30+ years ago but times have changed.

In my limited world, fwiw, the only people still clinging to iPhones are the fanbois who just want Apple everything. Everyone else I know are ditching iPhones for Android handsets, especially after the let down of the last iPhone release when everyone was expecting the iPhone 5 and instead just got a re-released 4 w/ Siri. And why wouldn't you when you can get dual-core handsets for much less than the crappy single core iPhones but can do everything and much, much more than the iPhone?

 

[OCaptain]

Well obviously you don't own an Android device because Marketplace is now an App and Book store and its impossible not to notice how heavily books are now being promoted. And you do realise that Android now outsells Apple, no, and that Apple ibooks won't have "many more eyes" for much longer?

Sure it will. Since you say so.

My wife just got a new LG Android phone, in the interest of full disclosure.

 

[John Albert]

Incorrect. Customer satisfaction starts with an appropriate matching of perceptions to expectations established by the marketing.

Subsequent levels of satisfaction are achieved through the ongoing achievement of the utility and warranty of a product or service, compared to what was offered or marketed.

The entire process of "customer satisfaction" testing is based on subjective opinions.

If the customers are convinced enough through marketing to view their Apple product as an extraordinarily superior, identity-affirming lifestyle choice, then they'll be more likely to overlook flaws and shortcomings in the actual product itself, because the product is merely a totem or artifact for their own self-image.

They are opinions, not emotions, actually.

No, they're facts, actually:

There is no "Mac vs. PC." There are no "two camps."

FACT. IN this day and age, "PC" is just Apple's marketing terminology for all non-Apple computers, which they lump together for purposes of disparagement. The fact is that there are actually many, many players in the personal computer marketplace besides just Apple and Microsoft. There are many different hardware manufacturers, and many different companies developing operating systems and user interfaces. The same companies that make hardware for non-Apple computers also make the exact same hardware for Macs.

"Mac vs. PC" is a totally false dichotomy. Just because a person criticizes Apple does not mean they necessarily must favor Microsoft, and vice versa. Somebody could just as easily hate both companies, or love both of them equally, or not give a walking fart about either of them. It's a silly, pointless adversity that was wholly manufactured and perpetuated through Apple's persistently negative marketing strategies and attack ads, that date all the way back to the '1984' ad.

"Mac vs. PC" has been a thoroughly outdated concept ever since 2001 when Apple switched away from its PPC processor platform over to Intel x86.

FACT. Current Macintosh computers contain the same exact hardware as other manufacturers' computers. Mac architecture is the exact same platform (known as "x86") as all other PCs that run Windows or any other OS. In fact, all Apple computer parts are sourced from the same manufacturers in the exact same factories that produce parts for other, non-Apple x86 machines that would otherwise run Windows, Linux, BSD, Solaris, AIX, Haiku, etc. Therefore, it's a misnomer to speak of Macs as fundamentally different from "PCs."

The perpetuation of the "Mac vs. PC" war is a false duality created through Apple's marketing.

FACT. The "Mac vs. PC" ads made by Apple in the mid-late '00s falsely conglomerated all of the company's competitors under a single designation of "PC." The ads then exploited that artificial designation to falsely malign all their competitors for sharing a perceived set of faults based around popular criticisms of Microsoft Windows. Those ads in fact perpetuated a lie that all computers besides Macs are the same, that they all suffer from the same Windows-related issues, and that all Macs do not have any of those problems.

Because of that disingenuous marketing campaign, that completely false "Mac vs PC" dichotomy is still prevalent today, and is commonly invoked by Apple users/devotees/apologists on the Internet.

There is in fact one platform, the Intel-based x86 "PC," which has a variety of operating systems that can run on it. Microsoft and Apple just happen to be the two largest corporations that manufacture operating systems and hardware on that single platform.

FACT. As I pointed out before, Apple Macintoshes and other companies' computers all use the same kinds of processors, the same kinds of RAM, the same chipsets, the same data buses, the same kinds of storage devices, the same video and audio chipsets, etc. as all other x86 computers. It's all exactly the same hardware; the only difference is that Macs come with their own different operating system installed, and come in a specially-designed computer case made out of titanium or whatever, and that they're priced at 150-200% of the cost of most comparable machines. Other than that, they're x86 computers just like any IBM/Lenovo, HP, Dell, Asus, Toshiba, Sony VAIO, etc.

This particular thread happens to be about Apple, which sells its OS pre-installed on vastly overpriced hardware designed by fashionistas, and why so many of its users feel it's so great when in fact it's just another tech company that engages in some extraordinarily deceptive business and marketing practices.

FACT. Read the original post, and then read the rest of the thread while you're at it.
​

 

[OCaptain]

Like I said - outmoded business model. It might have worked 30+ years ago but times have changed.

In my limited world, fwiw, the only people still clinging to iPhones are the fanbois who just want Apple everything. Everyone else I know are ditching iPhones for Android handsets, especially after the let down of the last iPhone release when everyone was expecting the iPhone 5 and instead just got a re-released 4 w/ Siri. And why wouldn't you when you can get dual-core handsets for much less than the crappy single core iPhones but can do everything and much, much more than the iPhone?

So your world is full of spec-shoppers. That's cool. There are HUGE #s of people who don't shop that way. IPhone sales demonstrate that.

Don't get me wrong. I think we need Android to stay around so Apple will have to be competitive long-term. Otherwise, they'll get lazy.

 

[bit_pattern]

I think we need Android to stay around so Apple will have to be competitive long-term. Otherwise, they'll get lazy.

By that I assume you mean, someone to steal ideas from?

 

[OCaptain]

The entire process of "customer satisfaction" testing is based on subjective opinions.

If the customers are convinced enough through marketing to view their Apple product as an extraordinarily superior, identity-affirming lifestyle choice, then they'll be more likely to overlook flaws and shortcomings in the actual product itself, because the product is merely a totem or artifact for their own self-image.





No, they're facts, actually:

FACT. IN this day and age, "PC" is just Apple's marketing terminology for all non-Apple computers, which they lump together for purposes of disparagement. The fact is that there are actually many, many players in the personal computer marketplace besides just Apple and Microsoft. There are many different hardware manufacturers, and many different companies developing operating systems and user interfaces. The same companies that make hardware for non-Apple computers also make the exact same hardware for Macs.

"Mac vs. PC" is a totally false dichotomy. Just because a person criticizes Apple does not mean they necessarily must favor Microsoft, and vice versa. Somebody could just as easily hate both companies, or love both of them equally, or not give a walking fart about either of them. It's a silly, pointless adversity that was wholly manufactured and perpetuated through Apple's persistently negative marketing strategies and attack ads, that date all the way back to the '1984' ad.





FACT. Current Macintosh computers contain the same exact hardware as other manufacturers' computers. Mac architecture is the exact same platform (known as "x86") as all other PCs that run Windows or any other OS. In fact, all Apple computer parts are sourced from the same manufacturers in the exact same factories that produce parts for other, non-Apple x86 machines that would otherwise run Windows, Linux, BSD, Solaris, AIX, Haiku, etc. Therefore, it's a misnomer to speak of Macs as fundamentally different from "PCs."





FACT. The "Mac vs. PC" ads made by Apple in the mid-late '00s falsely conglomerated all of the companies' competitors under a single designation of "PC." The ads then exploited that artificial designation to falsely malign all their competitors for sharing a perceived set of faults based around popular criticisms of Microsoft Windows. Those ads in fact perpetuated a lie that all computers besides Macs are the same, that they all suffer from the same Windows-related issues, and that all Macs do not have any of those problems.

Because of that disingenuous marketing campaign, that completely false "Mac vs PC" dichotomy is still prevalent today, and is commonly invoked by Apple users/devotees/apologists on the Internet.





FACT. As I pointed out before, Apple Macintoshes and other companies' computers all use the same kinds of processors, the same kinds of RAM, the same chipsets, the same data buses, the same kinds of storage devices, the same video and audio chipsets, etc. as all other x86 computers. It's all exactly the same hardware; the only difference is that Macs come with their own different operating system installed, and come in a specially-designed computer case. Other than that, they're x86 computers just like any IBM/Lenovo, HP, Dell, Asus, Toshiba, or Sony VAIO.





FACT. Read the original post, and then the rest of the thread while you're at it.
​

So, Microsoft's recent "I'm a PC" ads?

 

[OCaptain]

By that I assume you mean, someone to steal ideas from?

Such as? How can Apple steal from someone whose premise is free, open-source and openly-available?

 

[Stray Cat]

But then you made these posts...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7967830#post7967830
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7969091#post7969091

... which provide the (possibly incorrect) impression that you were arguing the advantages of a Mac over PC (ie, the Mac vs. PC debate).

Nope, neither of those posts are arguing that Macs are betterer than PCs.
At most, they attempt to explain why I use a Mac.
I also say in those posts that PCs are great for other people and that Apple aren't perfect. I'm not the one drawing up battle lines and slagging off the perceived opponent.

I apologize for forgetting that you'd claimed detachment over the issue a couple of hundred posts earlier.

Accepted.

 

[Kid Eager]

There is no "Mac vs. PC." There are no "two camps."

"Mac vs. PC" has been a thoroughly outdated concept ever since 2001 when Apple switched away from its PPC processor platform over to Intel x86.

The perpetuation of the "Mac vs. PC" war is a false duality created through Apple's marketing.

There is in fact one platform, the Intel-based x86 "PC," which has a variety of operating systems that can run on it. Microsoft and Apple just happen to be the two largest corporations that manufacture operating systems and hardware on that single platform.

You have conflated a statement of fact with an opinion. The fact is that the internals are the same - no disagreement there.

There is, however, Mac versus PC - it's a living breathing meme, no matter how it came to pass historically. Evidence:
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=m...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

This particular thread happens to be about Apple, which sells its OS pre-installed on vastly overpriced hardware designed by fashionistas, and why so many of its users feel it's so great when in fact it's just another tech company that engages in some extraordinarily deceptive business and marketing practices.

This is an emotive opinion. "Fashionistas"????? I guess you can belittle somebody recognised as one of the world's foremost industrial designers as a fashionista if you like... but he's got the awards.

"Vastly overpriced"??? Not in my neck of the woods. Price relates to perceived value. More expensive, yes. That does not however mean that something is overpriced.

 

[John Albert]

So, Microsoft's recent "I'm a PC" ads?

What about them? They're an obvious reference to the Apple attack ads. So what?

The fact that you're finger-pointing at Microsoft as a defense perfectly illustrates my observation that so many Mac apologists exhibit the same false duality between Apple and "PC" (a.k.a. Microsoft). You guys need to recognize all that marketing nonsense for the BS that it is.

A Mac is just another PC in a fancier cabinet, running a different OS, that costs you twice as much money.

 

[John Albert]

You have conflated a statement of fact with an opinion. The fact is that the internals are the same - no disagreement there.

There is, however, Mac versus PC - it's a living breathing meme, no matter how it came to pass historically. Evidence:
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=m...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Being a meme does not make it a fact.

How that particular meme "came to pass historically" is indeed entirely relevant. The "Apple vs. PC" meme started from a dishonest and negative marketing strategy, based on a false dichotomy. In other words, a lie.

This is an emotive opinion. "Fashionistas"????? I guess you can belittle somebody recognised as one of the world's foremost industrial designers as a fashionista if you like... but he's got the awards.

"Vastly overpriced"??? Not in my neck of the woods. Price relates to perceived value. More expensive, yes. That does not however mean that something is overpriced.

Price a hard drive on the Apple Store website and then price the exact same model of hard drive from anywhere else. "Overpriced" is not just an opinion. It's a demonstrable fact.

As for "fashoinistas," I'll concede that as a disparaging choice of words.

 

[Stray Cat]

A Mac is just another PC in a fancier cabinet, running a different OS, that costs you twice as much money.

I don't see a problem here.

People don't only buy functional less expensive clothes.
People don't only buy functional less expensive guitars.
People don't only buy functional less expensive cars.

There are many things that can be both functional and lifestyle choices... great for diversity I say. Competition between brands forces and promotes increased innovation.

 

[John Albert]

I don't see a problem here.

People don't only buy functional less expensive clothes.
People don't only buy functional less expensive guitars.
People don't only buy functional less expensive cars.

There are many things that can be both functional and lifestyle choices... great for diversity I say. Competition between brands forces and promotes increased innovation.

I never argued otherwise, did I?

Those just aren't the lifestyle choices I choose to make. In my opinion, status symbols are suckerbait for small-minded, impractical douchebags with small penises major inferiority complexes.

 

[kajata]

Like I said - outmoded business model. It might have worked 30+ years ago but times have changed.

In my limited world, fwiw, the only people still clinging to iPhones are the fanbois who just want Apple everything. Everyone else I know are ditching iPhones for Android handsets, especially after the let down of the last iPhone release when everyone was expecting the iPhone 5 and instead just got a re-released 4 w/ Siri. And why wouldn't you when you can get dual-core handsets for much less than the crappy single core iPhones but can do everything and much, much more than the iPhone?

That bolded portion above? There's your problem. Last quarter, the three iPhone models outsold all the phones running Android and their market share doubled.

They sold 37 million iPhones but I'm sure you're right. They were probably all "fanbois".