Was Communism *Ever* a Viable Alternative Economic System?

Ziggurat said:
Because the population of London grew at a scale "unheard of" prior to the 19th century. More people = more poor people, it's as simple as that. London grew from less than 1 million at the beginning of the century to more than 6.5 million by the end. London had never seen such rapid growth, before OR since.
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And why was that? What suddenly changed to create such intense population growth?
 
DC said:
then why has government to fund so much science, like the LHC for example or CERN in general?
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Because some science doesn't have an economic payoff.

The overwhelming majority of new technologies were developed by private enterprise seeking a competitive advantage over competitors.

What innovations did the USSR produce? The DDR? North Korea? Any other non-capitalist sytem?
 
If you believe capitalism "impoverished" people then you must believe that rural peasantry were richer before capitalism and gave it up to work in factories for no reason.
 
DC said:
nor does it prove that techonolgy is do to capitalism.
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Insomuch as the profit motive is the driving force behind many innovations, many technologies came to be in part because of capitalism.

Alternatively, many people who lived in the USSR and/or worked there have told me that one of the many economic problems was that there was no motivation to take risks. Screwing up could lead to serious punishment while success led to no personal gain.

Seriously, do you really mean to suggest that you think the profit motive has nothing to do with businesses investing in technological development?
 
respect said:
Insomuch as the profit motive is the driving force behind many innovations, many technologies came to be in part because of capitalism.

Alternatively, many people who lived in the USSR and/or worked there have told me that one of the many economic problems was that there was no motivation to take risks. Screwing up could lead to serious punishment while success led to no personal gain.

Seriously, do you really mean to suggest that you think the profit motive has nothing to do with businesses investing in technological development?
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that's why i think mixed economies are the best way to go. but to say technology is a direct result from capitalism is just wrong i think. much if not most of the basic research is funded by Governments wich is very essential to further innovations.

and nowhere did i say profit motive has nothing to do with it.
 
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MG1962 said:
And why was that? What suddenly changed to create such intense population growth?
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For one, the amount of available food increased. The population of UK approximately quardupled during the course of 19th century. This puts the growth of London by a factor of 6 in perspective, doesn't it?

McHrozni
 
DC said:
that's why i think mixed economies are the best way to go. but to say technology is a direct result from capitalism is just wrong i think. much if not most of the basic research is funded by Governments wich is very essential to further innovations.

and nowhere did i say profit motive has nothing to do with it.
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Yes. governments can and do engage in research and development as well as privately owned businesses.

If you are aware that the profit motive drives some of it, you are aware that capitalism drives some of it, so why are you denying it?
 
I am sure Intel keeps innovating the microprocessor without the profit motive.

I am sure Samsung keeps innovating the television without the profit motive.

I am sure that Microsoft keeps innovating software without the profit motive.

I am sure that Apple keeps innovating cell phones without the profit motive.

I am sure that Toyota keeps innovating automobiles without the profit motive.

I am sure that Pfizer keeps innovating pharmaceuticals without the profit motive.

I am sure that Boeing keeps innovating aircraft without the profit motive.

Ect.

:rolleyes:
 
DC said:
then why has government to fund so much science, like the LHC for example or CERN in general?
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In addition to Wildcat's comments about private technology research and advancement, where exactly do you think all the money that government uses to do research comes from? Why, it comes from a capitalist economy! Western governments can afford to do all of this research precisely because of the wealth that capitalism provides. That's why communist countries could never keep up, even on the basic, non-applied research side. Now, if your argument was that capitalism works best when you add a little something extra, then this post might be relevant. But if you're trying to compare capitalism to communism, then pointing to government research is still a clear win for the capitalism side.
 
respect said:
Yes. governments can and do engage in research and development as well as privately owned businesses.

If you are aware that the profit motive drives some of it, you are aware that capitalism drives some of it, so why are you denying it?
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i never denied that it drives some of it. that is why i prefer mixed systems.
 
DC said:
i never denied that it drives some of it. that is why i prefer mixed systems.
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And that's all that exists. There are no pure free market systems in existence, but that's not much of a reason to not call the system we have capitalism. I call the USSR communist even though it didn't achieve Marx's ideal, and for the same reason I call the US and most of Europe capitalist even though they have economic regulations and other government intervention in the market.
 
Ziggurat said:
And that's all that exists. There are no pure free market systems in existence, but that's not much of a reason to not call the system we have capitalism. I call the USSR communist even though it didn't achieve Marx's ideal, and for the same reason I call the US and most of Europe capitalist even though they have economic regulations and other government intervention in the market.
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i call them mixed systems.
 
WildCat said:
What innovations did the USSR produce? The DDR? North Korea? Any other non-capitalist sytem?
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Don't know much about the history of Russian tanks do you.

North Korea is not a communist country. They use the political system Juche Simply described take the worst of every political system you have ever heard of put it all in one place and call it North Korea
 
Virus said:
Not a true communist country.
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Well they don't even consider themselves a communist state. They abandoned most Maxist thinking in the early 70s when the came up with their current ideology. Basically the best way to describe Juche Is gobbledegoop. It is not meant to say anything important, but simply sit on shelves unread and seem important
 
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