Was Communism *Ever* a Viable Alternative Economic System?

Ziggurat said:
Impossible perfection is your standard, not mine. I'm concerned with the real world, not fantasy.
Click to expand...

Sure - you might change your view if you lived in London during the late 19th Century. The richest city in the richest empire of its time, yet produced poverty on a scale unheard of in London's 2000 year history.

I am not the one that claimed capitalism produced the greatest wealth and best living conditions in the history of man. So really we are discussing your fantasy, not mine
 
McHrozni said:
The largest failure of Marx was his failure to envision a capitalist society changing into something better. He thought the only way forward was a radical revolution. He was wrong.

He wasn't all bad, some of the changes came earlier as a result of his work, but this was more of a random stroke of fortune than design.

McHrozni
Click to expand...

Which was something I mentioned a few pages back. Marx never predicted the rise of the middle class. He expected, like many of his time to see the gulf between the have and the have nots to increase
 
Tsukasa Buddha said:
Again, the state withers away on paper. And you are using modern terminology to interpret his words. He often called Britain a "dictatorship of the bourgeoisie", even though we would not recognise it as such.
Click to expand...

Correction. The state withers away after it seizes absolute power.

Some people think that looks good on paper. But it's not my bag.
 
MG1962 said:
Which was something I mentioned a few pages back. Marx never predicted the rise of the middle class. He expected, like many of his time to see the gulf between the have and the have nots to increase
Click to expand...

Yup. So why do you keep making such irrelevant statemets:

Sure - you might change your view if you lived in London during the late 19th Century. The richest city in the richest empire of its time, yet produced poverty on a scale unheard of in London's 2000 year history.
Click to expand...

One gets the impression that poverty in early capitalist societies somehow vindicates the mistakes of Marx.

A bit food for thought for you - the economic system didn't have a lot to do with poverty in 19th century. The widespread poverty was mostly a result of rapid population growth and not misallocation of resources.

McHrozni
 
Virus said:
Correction. The state withers away after it seizes absolute power.

Some people think that looks good on paper. But it's not my bag.
Click to expand...

It makes a good fairy tale though. A Red riding hood for adults :D

McHrozni
 
i think technology brought us the greatest wealth and best living conditions in human history and not any economic system. and the fact that most countries use mixed economic systems shows that pure systems are a failure, no matter wich side of the spectrum.
 
DC said:
i think technology brought us the greatest wealth and best living conditions in human history and not any economic system. and the fact that most countries use mixed economic systems shows that pure systems are a failure, no matter wich side of the spectrum.
Click to expand...

The difference between East and West Germany wasn't a matter of technology.
 
Tsukasa Buddha said:
Good one, but unfortunately racial purity is not the focus of Communism, or even a tenet. Other than this, Marx kept his anti-semitism private. And actually, this work was in response to Bruno Bauer's The Jewish Question (hence the title) and was defending Jewish political emancipation. There are varying debates about Judentum or about how this was how everyone thought of Judaism, but I don't agree with those and they aren't particularly relevant here.
Click to expand...
Communism hasn't been very good for Jews either. Israel doesn't have so many citizens from the former Warsaw pact nations because they felt so welcomed there.

The United States is one of the few nations outside Israel that has a large and growing Jewish population post WWII.
 
DC said:
i think technology brought us the greatest wealth and best living conditions in human history and not any economic system.
Click to expand...
The technology is the direct result of capitalism. Innovations under communist systems are few and far between.
 
MG1962 said:
Sure - you might change your view if you lived in London during the late 19th Century. The richest city in the richest empire of its time, yet produced poverty on a scale unheard of in London's 2000 year history.
Click to expand...

You want to know the truth about why poverty in 19th century London was on a much larger scale than anything in London previously?

Because the population of London grew at a scale "unheard of" prior to the 19th century. More people = more poor people, it's as simple as that. London grew from less than 1 million at the beginning of the century to more than 6.5 million by the end. London had never seen such rapid growth, before OR since.

Rural poverty isn't any better than urban poverty.

I am not the one that claimed capitalism produced the greatest wealth and best living conditions in the history of man. So really we are discussing your fantasy, not mine
Click to expand...

You haven't disproven my claim.
 
Last edited:
What evidence do you have that economic systems don't matter, only technology does?

You believe high-tech communism would work just as well do you?
 
Last edited:
DC said:
oh really? what evidence do you have for that claim?
Click to expand...
You think it's just coincidence or something?

Thyer very nature of capitalism encourages innovation, communism stifles it.
 
Virus said:
What evidence do you have that economic systems don't matter, only technology does?

You believe high-tech communism would work just as well do you?
Click to expand...

you should have read what i wrote :) you would not have to ask.no i dont think communism would work also not in a high tech variant.
 
DC said:
you should have read what i wrote :) you would not have to ask.no i dont think communism would work also not in a high tech variant.
Click to expand...

OK so you were talking bollocks then. Got it.
 
DC said:
so you have no evidence for your claim. ok
Click to expand...

Are you really supposing that the potential rewards achievable in a capitalist system have nothing to do with risk taking and innovation?
 
respect said:
Are you really supposing that the potential rewards achievable in a capitalist system have nothing to do with risk taking and innovation?
Click to expand...

then why has government to fund so much science, like the LHC for example or CERN in general?
 
DC said:
then why has government to fund so much science, like the LHC for example or CERN in general?
Click to expand...

That there are other routes to innovation does not render the profit motive nonexistent.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom