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Origin of the paint that was found as red-gray chips - any ideas?

cjnewson88 wrote: As expected. MM, RebIbis and probably the rest of the truther society are dismissing Millettes research before it is even completed

I hope his work will be honest, but what you never can trust with a guy like this, is if he could handle the shock of finding thermite, it could put him in a weird situation. The best thing, if you wanted to look at the samples Kevin and Jones got, would be to contact a independent lab, that will have no clue that the samples are from the WTC. But if Millettes actually got identical samples i dont think this is necessary.
 
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I hope his work will be honest, but what you never can trust with a guy like this, is if he could handle the shock of finding thermite, it could put him in a weird situation. The best thing, if you wanted to look at the samples Kevin and Jones got, would be to contact a independent lab, that will have no clue that the samples are from the WTC. But if Millettes actually got identical samples i dont think this is necessary.

Do you want this to happen? I am not sure how you followed this thread, but Kevin Ryan refused to release any of his sample. The reason amounted to a Poisoning of the Well.

Could you find a competent and independent lab and ask Kevin Ryan to release some of the chips that he believes to be thermitic? Thanks.
 
I have talked with Jones/harrit about this before, that i could help raise money etc, but they just thanked me for some of my recommendations and i didnt hear anything more from them, i have emailed them about it i think twice since then with no response. I dont know if they are not confident in their own study, a bit paranoid, or maybe both, but they haft to understand that people will not respect them if they just keep their samples for themself and do no further testing, i am very disappointed in this behaviour and hope they will come along soon..
 
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I hope his work will be honest, but what you never can trust with a guy like this, is if he could handle the shock of finding thermite, it could put him in a weird situation. The best thing, if you wanted to look at the samples Kevin and Jones got, would be to contact a independent lab, that will have no clue that the samples are from the WTC. But if Millettes actually got identical samples i dont think this is necessary.

Poisoning the well.
 
Neither does a lot of what you just said.

Jim Millette is being compensated for his work.

Having previously studied the WTC dust (something I did not know when I agreed to financially contribute to his investigation), he has reason to "let sleeping dogs lie."

Dr. Jones still has a good relationship with his employers and has not lost any credibility except in the mind of Official Story zealots like yourself.

Dr. Jones has no 'desire' to believe in the controlled demolition of the WTC. He is just one of a few brave scientists who is willing to follow where the scientific evidence leads.

As an American citizen who loves his country, Dr. Jones has no motivation for wanting to believe that the Official Story is a lie.

MM

How about this MM, I have a deal for you. I am not restricted fiscally, you PM me how much you contributed and I will, personally, refund you the money. That way your whining in relation to this will be moot.

Secondly, how, in the world, do you know Dr. Jones loves his country or has no motivation for wanting to believe whatever he believes about the official story? Better yet, how can you claim Dr. Millette has any ambition to the contrary?

If Dr. Jones hasn't lost any credibility, why is it listed time and again, in this very thread, that he has? These claims are made by truthers as "evidence" that he would have no reason to lie. He has laid his job and reputation on the line. At least pick a lie and go with it. Truthers prove each other wrong...makes for an easy day.

Dr. Millette's "compensation" is probably going to end up costing him a fair amount of money. I guess it's like Silverstein "making out like a bandit" right? This scientist who, I have no idea how much he makes, really needs the 1K for a new plasma TV?
 
I have talked with Jones/harrit about this before, that i could help raise money etc, but they just thanked me for some of my recommendations and i didnt hear anything more from them, i have emailed them about it i think twice since then with no response. I dont know if they are not confident in their own study, a bit paranoid, or maybe both, but they haft to understand that people will not respect them if they just keep their samples for themself and do no further testing, i am very disappointed in this behaviour and hope they will come along soon..

This behaviour by Jones/Harrit is unsatisfying indeed, as they recommended paths of further study for their samples in their paper.

Thanks for trying.
 
Having previously studied the WTC dust (something I did not know when I agreed to financially contribute to his investigation), he has reason to "let sleeping dogs lie."

MM

Do you want your money back? PM me, I'll replace your contribution (and refund you directly).
 
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To all NewYorkers: As you perhaps remember, we have discussed here several times that it would be great to have/analyze real samples of "Laclede red primer paint" from WTC floor trusses, archived in Hangar 17, JFK Airport. It seems, however, that to get such samples is not so easy and it would anyway require some official inquiry (to have a good chain of custody for such samples).

Meanwhile... could anyone from New York City be so kind and visit Hangar 17? And tell us later if he/she spotted some paint preserved on archived floor trusses (e.g. in so called "WTC meteorite)? We have seen some photos of such trusses, but the direct observation of remaining (red) paint (if any) on the twisted floor steel would be indeed much, much better:cool: (Some photographic documentation is of course welcome)


You can't just walk in there. It's not really guarded but the doors are locked. You have to know someone. Without going through official channels you can forget about taking samples and/or photos in there. There is almost nothing recognizable in the meteorites except for papers with print and some rebar.
 
You can't just walk in there. It's not really guarded but the doors are locked. You have to know someone. Without going through official channels you can forget about taking samples and/or photos in there. There is almost nothing recognizable in the meteorites except for papers with print and some rebar.

Thanks, Justin. I have supposed that Hangar 17 is open to the public (at least at request), as a part of 911 Memorial and Museum. Have you seen the "WTC meteorite/s" personally? (The extent to which red primer is preserved on floor trusses could still serve us as some kind of indirect proof that chips in Bentham paper can be Laclede paint chips, but we can live without it; notably, the same "meteorites" - just compressed mixture of "everything" - seem to serve to SLT as proofs that even concrete was molten during the WTC disaster:cool:)
 
Neither does a lot of what you just said.

Jim Millette is being compensated for his work.

Having previously studied the WTC dust (something I did not know when I agreed to financially contribute to his investigation), he has reason to "let sleeping dogs lie."

Dr. Jones still has a good relationship with his employers and has not lost any credibility except in the mind of Official Story zealots like yourself.

Dr. Jones has no 'desire' to believe in the controlled demolition of the WTC. He is just one of a few brave scientists who is willing to follow where the scientific evidence leads.

As an American citizen who loves his country, Dr. Jones has no motivation for wanting to believe that the Official Story is a lie.

MM

You didn't know? You could have done five minutes worth of your own research, failed to, and now are oddly complaining about it? And people are critical of truthers' research skills....

I'd have to guess that the number of things you don't know about 9/11 must simply be staggering.
 
More Dust Study Answers from Jim Millette

Hi all,

Here are some things that came up in my most recent conversation with Dr. Jim Millette, who is already well along in his study of the WTC dust:

1.) His intention is to replicate the tests done in the Bentham study. In addition, he will employ environmental forensic science tests. The Bentham paper does not report on having done a normal envirnmental forensic study of the components so Dr. Millette will do that, plus everything they did, plus other tests as needed. He has already looked at 40 particles, a few of which have have the properties described in the Bentham paper, and he is confirming a match. He used magnets to pull out the chips, both to follow Harrit et al's protocol and to make it easy to separate out. He will be using transmission eletrocmicroscopy among other things.
2.) He will look for evidence not only of unignited thermitic materials but for unignited nanothermitic materials, using some of the same protocols as used in the Bentham paper.
3.) He will write up a protocol in more detail.
4.) He guesses we will have preliminary information around 15th February. The full report will take several months.
5.) He is looking for a laclede paint primer sample for Oystein. He may have something in his collection.
6.) He is also looking to see if anyone has documented all the red paints in WTC. Others he works with may know.
7.) Several times he said, "what do we have?" We can't have answers until we know what we have. Don't jump the gun; let me do my work and we'll see what I find, he was saying.
8.) He is a member of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences and works with internationally know micorscopy experts. These experts, as well as architects and engineers, are contributing their expertise to this study.
9.) The basis of science is to do research and have someone reproduce that research, which he will do with the Harrit paper. He will be following what Niels Harrit et al says he believes these chips have.
10.) His final report will definitely report carefully on the chain of custody.
11.) As I thought, the EPA report he coauthored re health hazards he found in the dust focused on the dangerous chemicals. He remembers seeing small spheres of iron (and reported on large quantities of iron) but the shape of the iron dust pieces was not the focus of the study. He understands that this is being treated as evidence of thermitics in the Bentham paper so he will deal with it in his report.
12.) In certain high-stakes court cases he has worked on, there has been videotaping of everything he has done. The cost of that is thousands of dollars, maybe tens of thousands. Anyone want to pay for this? He's willing but not unless all costs are covered in advance.
13.) Several people have said that if he discovers thermitic materials, he will never admit to it because this would destroy his career. He said he is not worried about that at all. He is an independent scientist, and "If I find it I'll publish it." And if he finds no evidence for active thermitic material, then he will conduct the necessary tests to determine what the red-gray chips most likely are.
I have asked him everything people have asked me to ask, unless I forgot something.


Chris
 
13.) Several people have said that if he discovers thermitic materials, he will never admit to it because this would destroy his career. He said he is not worried about that at all. He is an independent scientist, and "If I find it I'll publish it." And if he finds no evidence for active thermitic material, then he will conduct the necessary tests to determine what the red-gray chips most likely are.



Chris

Last time I checked falsifying your results will end your career and has a vaster collection of precedents than alleged examples of scientists covering for the "govt".
 
Good point Grandmaster; Millette actually referred to his ethical obligations when he said, "Our laboratory is certified under ISO 17025 which includes audits of our accuracy, reliability and integrity. I am a member of the American Academy of Forensic Scientists and have sworn to uphold the high ethical standards of the organization." If he violates his oath and falsifies data and gets caught, he'll be in WAY more trouble than if he discovers thermitic materials and publishes his findings.
 
Hi all,

Here are some things that came up in my most recent conversation with Dr. Jim Millette, who is already well along in his study of the WTC dust:

1.) His intention is to replicate the tests done in the Bentham study. In addition, he will employ environmental forensic science tests. The Bentham paper does not report on having done a normal envirnmental forensic study of the components so Dr. Millette will do that, plus everything they did, plus other tests as needed. He has already looked at 40 particles, a few of which have have the properties described in the Bentham paper, and he is confirming a match. He used magnets to pull out the chips, both to follow Harrit et al's protocol and to make it easy to separate out. He will be using transmission eletrocmicroscopy among other things.
2.) He will look for evidence not only of unignited thermitic materials but for unignited nanothermitic materials, using some of the same protocols as used in the Bentham paper.
3.) He will write up a protocol in more detail.
4.) He guesses we will have preliminary information around 15th February. The full report will take several months.
5.) He is looking for a laclede paint primer sample for Oystein. He may have something in his collection.
6.) He is also looking to see if anyone has documented all the red paints in WTC. Others he works with may know.
7.) Several times he said, "what do we have?" We can't have answers until we know what we have. Don't jump the gun; let me do my work and we'll see what I find, he was saying.
8.) He is a member of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences and works with internationally know micorscopy experts. These experts, as well as architects and engineers, are contributing their expertise to this study.
9.) The basis of science is to do research and have someone reproduce that research, which he will do with the Harrit paper. He will be following what Niels Harrit et al says he believes these chips have.
10.) His final report will definitely report carefully on the chain of custody.
11.) As I thought, the EPA report he coauthored re health hazards he found in the dust focused on the dangerous chemicals. He remembers seeing small spheres of iron (and reported on large quantities of iron) but the shape of the iron dust pieces was not the focus of the study. He understands that this is being treated as evidence of thermitics in the Bentham paper so he will deal with it in his report.
12.) In certain high-stakes court cases he has worked on, there has been videotaping of everything he has done. The cost of that is thousands of dollars, maybe tens of thousands. Anyone want to pay for this? He's willing but not unless all costs are covered in advance.
13.) Several people have said that if he discovers thermitic materials, he will never admit to it because this would destroy his career. He said he is not worried about that at all. He is an independent scientist, and "If I find it I'll publish it." And if he finds no evidence for active thermitic material, then he will conduct the necessary tests to determine what the red-gray chips most likely are.
I have asked him everything people have asked me to ask, unless I forgot something.


Chris

Your post is re-assuring Chris.

Any negative statements I have made regarding Millette have been based on my awareness that any finding supportive of the Bentham Paper will be very controversial and test the courage of any man/woman providing such support.

It is good news to hear that he acknowledges the existence of iron microspheres. It still baffles me that given his expertise, he appeared to show so little curiosity about this previous discovery.

Thank you for the update Chris and I'm sorry if my posting has been less than gentle.

The issues at stake is far more important than personal feelings and that is the basis of my responses.

Alas, I only wish the rank 'n file Official Story supporters here at JREF could understand this.

You are one of the few who attempts to keep things civil.

Regards.

MM
 

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