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Origin of the paint that was found as red-gray chips - any ideas?

A W Smith said:
the twoofer trolls are just begging to poison the well even before anything is drawn from it. That's how shaky they KNOW their therm*te claims are.
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Exactly, they've been supporting their lofty thermite argument for years based on stuff all, and now that we've funded an independent non bias study of the red grey chips found in the wtc dust, they're trying to make any excuse they can think of that will illegitimate the study in their own minds BEFORE the study has even been carried out!

If truthers are so confident in their thermite claim, why are they so worried all of a sudden? If anything, they should be confident that the study will in fact support their claims.
 
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Their own data points to Paint!!

cjnewson88 said:
Exactly, they've been supporting their lofty thermite argument for years based on stuff all, and now that we've funded an independent non bias study of the red grey chips found in the wtc dust, they're trying to make any excuse they can think of that will illegitimate the study in their own minds BEFORE the study has even been carried out!

If truthers are so confident in their thermite claim, why are they so worried all of a sudden?
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They were worried all along. Which is why they chose Bentham in the first place. They knew in advance their pseudoscience fraud would not stand under the light of legitimate scrutiny. Their only reply to Sunstealers re-examination was "well why hasn't Sunstealer published??" or "who is this anonymous Sunstealer?" rather than refute Sunstealer's points in a bullet list. They chose the same poisoning of the well logical fallacy.
 
RedIbis said:
It should have been your first question. I do wonder why you're so reluctant to specifically ask where he's getting the material. It's what your entire study is going to hinge on.
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Translation: Red is going to reject the results out of hand when he is reminded that they were collected pursuant to an epa study. We already knew that, and Red, nobody cares.

You'd think he be outraged that his heroes in the truth movement would not provide their own samples to be tested. But no, that way they can make their money, and Red can continue to tell himself that he is not intellectually dishonest and hasn't wasted the last few years of his life.

Hell, he even accepted the nonsense that his heroes' results, which clearly showed it was NOT thermite, was thermite.

Keep on truthering Red!
 
RedIbis said:
It should have been your first question.
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Why? they are dealing with professionals, who can be trusted to act like professionals. (Jones et al, were amateurs in the subject and acted as one would expect.....actually worse than one would have expected.......)
 
@ RedIbis or anyone else who at this point feels uncomfortable with not yet having the part of the report in hand that will detail the chain of custody:

Can you outline the criteria by which you will decide whether to accept or reject the validity of the chain of custody?
Are you willing to apply the same criteria to the samples in K. Ryan's, Jones's and Basile's possession?
Did you accept the chain of custody of their samples when their respective studies were out? If yes, by which criteria did you decide to accept them, and are you willing to apply the same criteria to Jim's samples?

I think you will agree with me that we should guard against the Special Pleading Fallacy.

If you can't name the criteria by which you have accepted the Jones samples or might reject the Milette samples, then nobody can take you serious if and when you reject Milette's chain.
 
Oystein: to take it less formally, I wonder now: what thoughts can lead truthers that there may be some conspiracy even here in JREF to fake somehow research on the next closely investigated red-(gray) chips from the WTC dust? Do they think that we are in some closer affinity with Jim Millete's lab? Or do they suspect that Jim Millette is („well paid“ by us JREFres) fraud scientist trying now e.g. desperately to collect some fake red-gray chips similar to Bentham chips in some muddy landfill or so (or to manufacture them in his lab or so) to make fake results on behalf of Lie (in contrast to Truth)? And why? If such faked chips have the same look, microstructure, analytical characteristics etc. as Bentham chips (a) to (d), they cannot be any thermite in any way, as well as chips found by Bentham team.
For me, Jim Millette is pretty sure that his dust samples are authentic. Without such knowledge, he would never agree to participate on this kind of „game“.
 
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Ivan Kminek said:
Oystein: to take it less formally, I wonder now: what thoughts can lead truthers that there may be some conspiracy even here in JREF to fake somehow research on the next closely investigated red-(gray) chips from the WTC dust? Do they think that we are in some closer affinity with Jim Millete's lab? Or do they suspect that Jim Millette is („well paid“ by us JREFres) fraud scientist trying now e.g. desperately to collect some fake red-gray chips similar to Bentham chips in some muddy landfill or so (or to manufacture them in his lab or so) to make fake results on behalf of Lie (in contrast to Truth)? And why? If such faked chips have the same look, microstructure, analytical characteristics etc. as Bentham chips (a) to (d), they cannot be any thermite in any way, as well as chips found by Bentham team.
For me, Jim Millette is pretty sure that his dust samples are authentic. Without such knowledge, he would never agree to participate on this kind of „game“.
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Ivan, I attempted to make this same point the other day. What would Jim Millette possibly have to gain by spending his own time, money, and resources administering test on samples he knows are not valid. Troofers state time and again that Jones lost his job, his credibility, etc because of his desire to believe in the controlled demolition of the WTC. So, is it now, their mindset that Jim Millette, currently a respected chemist, desires the same? He is doing this so that he can possibly lose his credibility and respect from the community by doing these tests? It doesn't make sense, then again, neither does a lot of the "twoof".
 
plague311 said:
Ivan, I attempted to make this same point the other day. What would Jim Millette possibly have to gain by spending his own time, money, and resources administering test on samples he knows are not valid. Troofers state time and again that Jones lost his job, his credibility, etc because of his desire to believe in the controlled demolition of the WTC. So, is it now, their mindset that Jim Millette, currently a respected chemist, desires the same? He is doing this so that he can possibly lose his credibility and respect from the community by doing these tests? It doesn't make sense, then again, neither does a lot of the "twoof".
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Neither does a lot of what you just said.

Jim Millette is being compensated for his work.

Having previously studied the WTC dust (something I did not know when I agreed to financially contribute to his investigation), he has reason to "let sleeping dogs lie."

Dr. Jones still has a good relationship with his employers and has not lost any credibility except in the mind of Official Story zealots like yourself.

Dr. Jones has no 'desire' to believe in the controlled demolition of the WTC. He is just one of a few brave scientists who is willing to follow where the scientific evidence leads.

As an American citizen who loves his country, Dr. Jones has no motivation for wanting to believe that the Official Story is a lie.

MM
 
Miragememories said:
Dr. Jones has no 'desire' to believe in the controlled demolition of the WTC. He is just one of a few brave scientists who is willing to follow where the scientific evidence leads.
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Given the quality of his other "scientific" works outside of a very narrow environment in the lab, he might have been looking for something to prove that he is not just another pedestrian pedagouge. He really hasn't accomplished much of anything in his professional life that would make him more than a footnote in the annals of mediocrity.

Same, apparently, for Harrit and Ryan. Total schmendricks, the lot of them.

As an American citizen who loves his country, Dr. Jones has no motivation for wanting to believe that the Official Story is a lie.
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Maybe he just hates mundane government.
 
Miragememories said:
Jim Millette is being compensated for his work.

Having previously studied the WTC dust (something I did not know when I agreed to financially contribute to his investigation), he has reason to "let sleeping dogs lie."

MM
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As expected. MM, RebIbis and probably the rest of the truther society are dismissing Millettes research before it is even completed. This is just so typical of truthers. The fact they call themselves 'truthers' is a ***** joke. They don't want truth, they want the right answer.

"There are none so def as those who do not wish to listen"
 
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I'm so uber truther I dismiss the findings of anything on jref by default.

The only person(s) I trust now are Alex Jones or David Icke. Apparently David is going to sign up here soon, so brace yourselves.

When are we actually going to get this data? Swear ive been lurking here waiting for this for months now ...
 
Zeuzzz said:
I'm so uber truther I dismiss the findings of anything on jref by default.

The only person(s) I trust now are Alex Jones or David Icke. Apparently David is going to sign up here soon, so brace yourselves.

When are we actually going to get this data? Swear ive been lurking here waiting for this for months now ...
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I'll be asking Dr. Millette later this week about the rough time frame for this project. Right now I have no idea. We've been waiting for three years for a study like this so hey what's another couple months eh?
 
To all NewYorkers: As you perhaps remember, we have discussed here several times that it would be great to have/analyze real samples of "Laclede red primer paint" from WTC floor trusses, archived in Hangar 17, JFK Airport. It seems, however, that to get such samples is not so easy and it would anyway require some official inquiry (to have a good chain of custody for such samples).

Meanwhile... could anyone from New York City be so kind and visit Hangar 17? And tell us later if he/she spotted some paint preserved on archived floor trusses (e.g. in so called "WTC meteorite)? We have seen some photos of such trusses, but the direct observation of remaining (red) paint (if any) on the twisted floor steel would be indeed much, much better:cool: (Some photographic documentation is of course welcome)
 
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Ivan Kminek said:
To all NewYorkers: As you perhaps remember, we have discussed here several times that it would be great to have/analyze real samples of "Laclede red primer paint" from WTC floor trusses, archived in Hangar 17, JFK Airport. It seems, however, that to get such samples is not so easy and it would anyway require some official inquiry (to have a good chain of custody for such samples).

Meanwhile... could anyone from New York City be so kind and visit Hangar 17? And tell us later if he/she spotted some paint preserved on archived floor trusses (e.g. in so called "WTC meteorite)? We have seen some photos of such trusses, but the direct observation of remaining (red) paint (if any) on the twisted floor steel would be indeed much, much better:cool: (Some photographic documentation is of course welcome)
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Remember Ivan I asked for a WTC I/II truss Laclede paint sample from Jim Millette and he said maybe, he'll look for some in his lab collection. Will let you know this week.
 
Miragememories said:
Neither does a lot of what you just said.

Jim Millette is being compensated for his work.
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At far less than the going rate......

Having previously studied the WTC dust (something I did not know when I agreed to financially contribute to his investigation), he has reason to "let sleeping dogs lie."
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How would that not also apply to Jones? Do you think he want to be proven wrong?

Dr. Jones still has a good relationship with his employers and has not lost any credibility except in the mind of Official Story zealots like yourself.
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No, the university is playing the whole thing down to avoid embarrassment.
As a tenured Professor the whole thing could have got very messy.
Don't you find it curious that Jones just took his retirement money and ran rather than stick around and reap the publicity from the scandle if he really believed his work would stand up to scrutiny?


Dr. Jones has no 'desire' to believe in the controlled demolition of the WTC. He is just one of a few brave scientists who is willing to follow where the scientific evidence leads.
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I assume he also had no "desire" to believe in Pre-columbian horses either?:D
And there is zero scientific evidence leading to any use of Thermite......you losers cannot even say what the WTC towers failure should have looked like if there was no CD!

As an American citizen who loves his country, Dr. Jones has no motivation for wanting to believe that the Official Story is a lie.
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Other than insanity?....and wanting to make a name for himself after his lifes work turned out to be a complete waste of time........
 
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