Diane Abbott - Was it a racist comment? Should she go?

[andyandy]

I am amazed that politicians think that twitter is worth the risk - an off the cuff ill-considered 30 second tweet can (potentially) end your career - why take that risk?

Anyway, back to the issue.....it depends how much we're bothered by double standards i guess - certainly if it had been a white politician making similar comments about "the blacks" - well i think that would have to be a resigning issue (i wonder how it will affect Starkey's tv career?) but on the other hand, i've lost count of the number of times i've seen gender related comments which if "men" were replaced with "women", would cause the mother of all storms - but are seemingly not such a big issue the other way round.....

I doubt she'll go because the i don't think the Daily Wail et al will make a big thing of it - after all judging from the comments on the Starkey articles at least, the Wail readers are pretty supportive of being able to group in "black" and "white" and attribute characteristics as they see fit. Anything else is Political Correctness Gone Mad.

 

[NeilC]

Not sure I'd agree that saying a powerful majority have been successful by being complete and utter bastards denegrates anyone.

But she didn't say that. She said "white people" do it. I'm one of these white people and I don't do it. So she is making a false negative generalisation on the basis of race. That is racist language. I don't really care that it's racist but racist it is.

 

[andyandy]

....of course, her comments are nowhere near as racist at the stuff in Ron Paul's newsletters....*

and he doesn't seem to be going anywhere....


*the ones written as though by him, mailed to his supporters, that he never wrote and never read

 

[The Don]

Hates? .....<snip>...

Yes, I'd say hates. She is portraying all white people as colonial oppressors who are seeking to "rule" the black population in the UK.

I'd say you'd have to hate a group of people to portray them in that way.


While we're on the subject, I'd be interested to find out from Ms Abbot who she considers to be black:

• Someone who is 100% black by lineage
• Someone who is 50% or more black by lineage
• 30%
• 15%
• Anyone who looks "black"
• Anyone who self-identifies as black

 

[Skepticemea]

I think there's definitely more than a hint of "What's sauce for the goose is good for the gander" about it. And why not, indeed?

There of course being a long and turbulent history of white people being oppressed by non-whites in this country?

It doesn't excuse it, it does however (imo) modify it's impact. I think the greatest disservice being done here is to the constituents she purports to represent.

 

[Skepticemea]

Yes, I'd say hates. She is portraying all white people as colonial oppressors who are seeking to "rule" the black population in the UK.

I'd say you'd have to hate a group of people to portray them in that way.


While we're on the subject, I'd be interested to find out from Ms Abbot who she considers to be black:

• Someone who is 100% black by lineage
• Someone who is 50% or more black by lineage
• 30%
• 15%
• Anyone who looks "black"
• Anyone who self-identifies as black

"All Chinese people eat rice" is hate language?

 

[The Don]

"All Chinese people eat rice" is hate language?

I'm not entirely sure how saying that all white people seek to rule black people through a process of divide and rule (AWPSTRBPTAPODAR) is analogous to saying that all Chinese people each rice.

Both are factually untrue, both appear to apply outdated stereotypes, but I'm pretty sure that suggesting that AWPSTRBPTAPODAR is a slur against white people whereas I'm not sure how much of a slur an incorrect statement regarding eating habit is.

I suppose if a Chinese person takes offence at the suggestion of rice eating then perhaps the comment is racist. IIRC in Imperial China, the richer you were the less rice you ate. Maybe a rich Imperial Chinese person or their modern counterpart would be offended.

 

[Darat]

"All Chinese people eat rice" is hate language?

As a bare bones comment I would have just said it is wrong as there is no impugning of any Chinese person. However in her statement she is impugning "white people" as the comment "love playing 'divide & rule'" is a criticism so she is criticising people because they are "white".

 

[richardm]

There of course being a long and turbulent history of white people being oppressed by non-whites in this country?

If you can bear to have a look at the Daily Mail's comments section you might get that impression

"All Chinese people eat rice" is hate language?

Eating rice does not generally have negative connotations though. (Unlike, say, its bastard cousin couscous). It's certainly a stereotype, just not necessarily a negative one. And no doubt someone could argue that because of that it's racist. But not hate language, no. Saying "All Chinese people are sinister" might be another matter.

 

[Francesca R]

The shadow cabinet would be in much better shape without Diane Abbott in it IMO so I hope MiliE takes the opportunity to boot her before it becomes completely inevitable (as in "I resigned because this story was distracting the shadow cabinet" etc.)

 

[Architect]

As a white person I can't say I was upset, offended, shocked or traumatised by her comments. At the same time I can't see how they can be characterised as anything other than racist, and I'm not sure that "Harm" needs to enter into the equation. Whether she should be fired for the comment is another matter, but I do think the double-standard is there; if the situation was reversed the fuss would be quite considerable.

I agree.

 

[Agatha]

I think her position in the Shadow Cabinet will become untenable, mostly for the reasons richardm outlines.

 

[Rolfe]

I think anyone who makes a career out of being offended if someone says "black people do [mildly derogatory] x" should have more bloody sense than to come out with "white people do [mildly derogatory] x".

She sits on that sofa beside Portillo, and I like Portillo better. Something is wrong with that picture.

Rolfe.

 

[The Don]

She sits on that sofa beside Portillo, and I like Portillo better. Something is wrong with that picture.

Rolfe.

Apparently they are old chums from their school days:

Born in London in 1953, the daughter of immigrants, Ms Abbott attended Harrow County grammar school, where she acted in a play opposite Michael Portillo, later to become a leading Conservative.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10276583

 

[Darat]

...snip...

She sits on that sofa beside Portillo, and I like Portillo better. Something is wrong with that picture.

Rolfe.

That's because he is Portillo Mk 2, remember version 1 had some problems at the polls!

Seriously I agree with you and I know part of the reason I think she should be sacked from the shadow cabinet is that I can't stand her!

 

[Noztradamus]

Hates? I believe that her comments re Jamaican mothers was about disciplining their children more severely than English ones. My limited experience on this would bear her out (seeing that several of my school friends got away with a hell of a lot less than I did with their Afro-Caribbean folks).

You might believe that, but that wasn't the context.

She was claiming that as a "caring Jamacan mother" she was entitled to send her son to a private school, even though a few years previously she had criticized a white Labour party colleague for sending their son to a private school.

One word: Hypocrisy

 

[angrysoba]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16423278

I think it was a racist comment, especially because I've heard her use the word "white" in describing people when using the word "black" would have drawn criticism (her description of Tweedledum and Tweedledee for one).

Should she go? Tougher one, but given she came out with the seemingly-on-speed-dial-lie of all politicians caught saying something naughty i.e. the criticisms come from taking it out of context I'd say she should go.

Maybe if she had said, "Some white people love playing 'divide & rule'" and added "Some white people don't love playing 'divide & rule'" and divided whites up into "good whites" (Michael J. Fox, Jack Lemmon etc...) and "bad whites" (the KKK, Mel Gibson, Eric Clapton, Adolf Hitler etc...) then it wouldn't have been so racist. But it might have been divide and rule, Oh no!

I think it's racist because it's denegrating people on the basis of their skin colour. It's pretty much the definition of verbal racism. But I can't say I'm particularly offended.

One half of me would like to see her go just because I perceive that the slightest slip of the tongue is often taken as racist and seems to result in the resignation of white public figures and I'd like to see it cut both ways. However what I'd really like to see is everyone getting off their high horse in general re: perceived racist comments. So overall I think she should say it if she believes it. People have the right not to vote for her.

One half of you, eh? Some divide and rule has been going on there?

 

[angrysoba]

The shadow cabinet would be in much better shape without Diane Abbott in it IMO so I hope MiliE takes the opportunity to boot her before it becomes completely inevitable (as in "I resigned because this story was distracting the shadow cabinet" etc.)

Let's hope he sacks himself too.

 

[angrysoba]

Basically I couldn't care less about these comments. They're really not offensive to anyone but the most hypersensitive who have nothing better to do then to search for things to be righteously outraged at.

However, I hate these sloppy apologies:

"I apologise for any offence caused.

Yeah, yeah, I'm like so sorry for like whatever!

 

[Mojo]

Perhaps if she'd said "majorities"...

"Divide and conquer" is a strategy more more typically used by ruling minorities than by majorities, so it wouldn't really have fitted.