Diane Abbott - Was it a racist comment? Should she go?

[Gazpacho]

What about those Scandinavians who have brown hair and green or brown eyes?

She quite clearly didn't say anything about them.

Again, care to answer my question?

No. N-O.

It was entirely appropriate for Abbot to comment on the preparedness of particular nurses at a hospital. She didn't have to call attention to their appearance at the same time. There are explanations for her doing so that don't involve being racist, but she's responsible for choosing her words carefully.

 

[Hubert Cumberdale]

She quite clearly didn't say anything about them.


No. N-O.

So. According to you, are we to believe that according to DA, white Scandinavian nurses with Blue eyes and brown hair, or brown hair and green eyes, or brown or green eyes with brown or blonde hair are OK to tend to her constituents, but Scandinavian nurses in particualr, with blonde hair and blue eyes, have no qualifications to work in the UK?

On the grounds that the latter have never seen or touched a black person before?

Is that seriously your position?

Originally Posted by Hubert Cumberdale
Again, care to answer my question?

No N-O

So you dont intended to answer my question?

 

[Gazpacho]

So. According to you, are we to believe that according to DA, white Scandinavian nurses with Blue eyes and brown hair, or brown hair and green eyes, or brown or green eyes with brown or blonde hair are OK to tend to her constituents, but Scandinavian nurses in particualr, with blonde hair and blue eyes, have no qualifications to work in the UK?

That has no resemblance to what she said.

 

[Darat]

Show me a white person who has been offended by being called blonde and blue-eyed.

I am white and don't have blond hair so how would such a description match me even though it is being asserted it does?

But that aside I don't see why it should matter if someone is offended or not when determining if a statement is racist?

 

[Hubert Cumberdale]

That has no resemblance to what she said.

Yes it does. Read what she said.

Are you now going to answer my question or are you Lee Jasper?

 

[Gazpacho]

Yes it does. Read what she said.

It does not. Please review the definition of the word "particular" if you need to. (I think you do.)

Are you now going to answer my question or are you Lee Jasper?

Post #61 has the only answer you're getting. It was appropriate for her to comment on the subject, but she should have worded it more carefully.

 

[Hubert Cumberdale]

comment on the subject, but she should have worded it more carefully.

Here is what you quoth

It was entirely appropriate for Abbot to comment on the preparedness of particular nurses at a hospital. She didn't have to call attention to their appearance at the same time. There are explanations for her doing so that don't involve being racist, but she's responsible for choosing her words carefully.

So white, blonde, blue eyed, Scandinavian nurse aren't prepared to treat black people?

<Note here that no object is raised to brown haired, green eyed Scandinavian nurses>

Are they a different species or something? In your opinion?

 

[Gazpacho]

So white, blonde, blue eyed, Scandinavian nurse aren't prepared to treat black people?

This nurse is not. That nurse is not. How much do I have to break it down for you?

 

[Rolfe]

Criticising "nurses who are unprepared to treat black people" might be justifiable, though it seems quite an odd concept to me - are people not people? But criticising "blonde, blue-eyed" nurses in so many words, is not.

Rolfe.

 

[EvilQuest]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16423278

I think it was a racist comment, especially because I've heard her use the word "white" in describing people when using the word "black" would have drawn criticism (her description of Tweedledum and Tweedledee for one).

Should she go? Tougher one, but given she came out with the seemingly-on-speed-dial-lie of all politicians caught saying something naughty i.e. the criticisms come from taking it out of context I'd say she should go.

I agree completely . And it's worth noting that anyone "white" making a similar comment about someone "black" would have probably provoked a riot and immediate sacking, whereas all we get here are slapped wrists. "Racism", it seems, works only one way. If you're "white" then you better keep your mouth shut because you could get into trouble. If you're black, however, expect to get away with it especially after all the repression your ancestors went through.

After all who cares about "truth" when the really important thing is apparently skin-colour.

If i'm expected not to be racist

 

[Agatha]

That's identifying specific individuals though. And it is a problem if a nurse charged with caring for black people has to work through phobias at the same time.

Do you, or Diane Abbot for that matter, have any evidence that Scandinavian nurses (of any skin, eye or hair colour) have such a "phobia" of treating black (or any other ethnic group) patients? Because without such evidence, it smacks of stereotyping of the sort that most of left behind in the fifties.

Class-y.

It's a reference to a well-circulated picture of one of our recent rioters. I can't actually recall what race the rioter was now. It was generally amusing that he looted the cheapest, poorest quality food when other, better quality foods would have been available, at no cost. Possibly it is a joke that doesn't translate well outside the UK, we have an idiosyncratic sense of humour.

I can't help but recall the hostility faced by US Surgeon General Joycelyn Elders, who was fired for reasons that, 16 years later, seem difficult to explain to someone who wasn't around.

Or to people who have had to google to understand what you mean - and Wiki seems to suggest it was something to do with her (rightly) saying masturbation is part of normal human sexuality, so I'm sorry, I can't quite understand the relevance to Diane Abbot.

I'd be offended if you assumed that as I'm white, I must have blue eyes and blonde hair (I have green eyes and red hair). Or that if I was a nurse, I'd have a phobia of treating people of a different ethnicity.

 

[JudeBrando]

Are more whites finally beginning to challenge their white liberal racist indoctrination?

That's progress... even if it's not very progressive.

 

[Agatha]

Are more whites finally beginning to challenge their white liberal racist indoctrination?

That's progress... even if it's not very progressive.

Sorry, I thought we were discussing Diane Abbott and her apparent racism. Good thing you are here to set me straight!

 

[JudeBrando]

So what makes you think it's all about you, princess?

 

[Agatha]

I don't think it is, but I thank you for elevating me to the monarchy. I'll be abdicating as soon as possible.

Do you have anything to say pertinent to the subject under discussion?

 

[Gazpacho]

Do you, or Diane Abbot for that matter, have any evidence that Scandinavian nurses (of any skin, eye or hair colour) have such a "phobia" of treating black (or any other ethnic group) patients? Because without such evidence, it smacks of stereotyping of the sort that most of left behind in the fifties.

The source claims she was referring to something she had observed at one hospital, and had discussed in regard to that hospital.

Or to people who have had to google to understand what you mean - and Wiki seems to suggest it was something to do with her (rightly) saying masturbation is part of normal human sexuality, so I'm sorry, I can't quite understand the relevance to Diane Abbot.

The relevance is using soundbites in an attempt to run someone out of office regardless of their overall quality of work.

 

[Montag451]

I just feel schadenfreude in this situation.

Her comments were mildly prejudiced in my opinion, but I am sure she would have made a big deal if it had been a conservative white mp making a similar comment and would have called for resignation etc etc.

Same as when she criticized other politicians (of all political parties if I remember correctly) for using a private school, then sent her own son to one.

The hypocrisy is quite outstanding and for this she deserves a few uncomfortable days, and I am sure that is why people regard it with such glee.

 

[angrysoba]

Same as when she criticized other politicians (of all political parties if I remember correctly) for using a private school, then sent her own son to one.

Yeah, I had forgotten about that. Especially being a Labour MP, it was, as she says "indefensible" and "intellectually incoherent". She should have become a Liberal Democrat MP, moved house to a place with a nice catchment area and sent her children to the local comprehensive in leafy Norfolk, or somewhere.

Also, I agree that her comments on the Skandanavian nurses are really bad. Much worse than what she said this time around.

 

[Jekyll's Guest]

It's not rocket science, people.

Replace black with white. Would the person be fired? Treat them the same.

Are we due an update as to why black people can not be racist? It was lack of power, but now there are high ranking black politicians, and they need a new get out of jail free card.

 

[Darth Rotor]

I can't help but recall the hostility faced by US Surgeon General Joycelyn Elders, who was fired for reasons that, 16 years later, seem difficult to explain to someone who wasn't around.

Didn't she advocate masturbation, or something? I need to look up. I recall finding a bit of good sense in her utterance that got her a load of heat. But it's been a while.
edit:
Bits of her more quotable public utterances ... don't recall why she took so much heat.

“I went to Washington, not to get that job but to do that job. I wanted to do something about the problems that I saw out there that were happening in our country. I wanted to do something to make sure that all people had access to health care. I wanted to do something to reduce teenage pregnancies and begin to address the needs of our adolescents.”

“Our country talked about masturbation more in December of 1994 than they ever have in the history of the country, and you know, people would think you'd be embarrassed about that. I'm not embarrassed about that.”

I am white and don't have blond hair so how would such a description match me even though it is being asserted it does?

But oh, those blue eyes! (Wait a minute, do you even have eyes? On the internet, none of us knows these things ...)

But that aside I don't see why it should matter if someone is offended or not when determining if a statement is racist?

Good point.