Post-revolution polls in Egypt

[Virus]

If he believes Reza Shah was overthrown by religious fascists his opinions about the Allied war effort are different than I would have suspected.

Of course with Virus it's kinda hard to tell.

Didn't say it.

 

[Robrob]

Totalitarians seek to break down all social institutions and remodel them according to some psychopathic ideology. Like what the Communists did, who invented the modern totalitarian state.

Which explains why you were against the rulers of Jordan, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Yemen, or Libya?

The Shah did none of these things but revolutionary Nationalist, Baathist and Islamist regimes did and they impoverished and destroyed their own societies in the process.

Just to interject a bit of reality into your POV, you do realize Iraq was one of the most secular Muslim counties - prior to our invasion? Or that the reason Iraq was "impoverished" was because of our twelve year long embargo?

Muslim radicals burn books:

Institute d’Egypte, a research center set up by Napoleon Bonaparte during France’s invasion in the late 18th century, caught fire during clashes between protesters and Egypt’s military over the weekend. It was home to a treasure trove of writings, most notably the handwritten 24-volume Description de l’Egypte, which began during the 1798-1801 French occupation.

That has to be a new record. Proved himself a liar in the very next sentence?

 

[Virus]

Just to interject a bit of reality into your POV, you do realize Iraq was one of the most secular Muslim counties - prior to our invasion? Or that the reason Iraq was "impoverished" was because of our twelve year long embargo?

Yeah Iraq was gumdrops and rainbows.

 

[angrysoba]

Possible, but it doesn't jive with the comment Virus made which prompted the exchange.

If he believes Reza Shah was overthrown by religious fascists his opinions about the Allied war effort are different than I would have suspected.

Of course with Virus it's kinda hard to tell.

I saw the "Shouldn't have sided with the Nazis" and thought that it could only be referring to Reza Shah although the semi-literate postings of the Champion of Enlightenment Values ^TMsans pronouns or anything in the way of argument make it very difficult to understand what Virus is talking about assuming even Virus knows what he is talking about (a big assumption, I'll grant you).

Didn't say it.

Could you actually write like an adult and put together actual arguments supported by evidence and premises rather than these desultory ug-ug sounds and occasional attempt at sarcasm?

Yeah Iraq was gumdrops and rainbows.

Didn't say it.

 

[Undesired Walrus]

That has to be a new record. Proved himself a liar in the very next sentence?

It's what happens when you have a singular view of the world.

 

[Pardalis]

Just to interject a bit of reality into your POV, you do realize Iraq was one of the most secular Muslim counties - prior to our invasion? Or that the reason Iraq was "impoverished" was because of our twelve year long embargo?

So you're against military intervention, and against sanctions, so what would you have done about Hussein?

 

[Pardalis]

And what can they do (this isn't me be aggressive, I'm just looking for solutions)?

Let them become a brutal theocracy, that's the PC thing to do.

 

[Undesired Walrus]

So how do you want to stop them becoming a brutal theocracy?

 

[Robrob]

Just to interject a bit of reality into your POV, you do realize Iraq was one of the most secular Muslim counties - prior to our invasion? Or that the reason Iraq was "impoverished" was because of our twelve year long embargo?

Yeah Iraq was gumdrops and rainbows.

"Secular Muslim country" is not the same as "gumdrops and rainbows." Do you have a reading disability?

Just to interject a bit of reality into your POV, you do realize Iraq was one of the most secular Muslim counties - prior to our invasion? Or that the reason Iraq was "impoverished" was because of our twelve year long embargo?

So you're against military intervention, and against sanctions, so what would you have done about Hussein?

When you are done building strawman, feel free to point out where I said I was "against military intervention" or "against sanctions?"

 

[Virus]

"Secular Muslim country" is not the same as "gumdrops and rainbows." Do you have a reading disability?

Secularism is a red-herring since it was a comparison between totalitarian and non-totalitarian regimes. So totalitarian Arab supremacism was Saddam's bag rather than totalitarian Islamic supremacism. So what? Of course in practice the state was dominated by the Sunni minority and Saddam's propaganda established himself as a messianic-type figure. So yeah. Secular, schmecular.

There are further problems with your statement; Iraq was bankrupted before the sanctions were imposed by Saddam's failed war with Iran which is why he tried to annex Kuwait. The sanctions were imposed because of the actions of Saddam, therefore they are his fault. Although he had various useful idiots on the Western left who were buttered-up and flattered to say otherwise.

 

[trustbutverify]

So how do you want to stop them becoming a brutal theocracy?

Great Question. Wish I had a great answer.

 

[Robrob]

Secularism is a red-herring since it was a comparison between totalitarian and non-totalitarian regimes. So totalitarian Arab supremacism was Saddam's bag rather than totalitarian Islamic supremacism. So what? Of course in practice the state was dominated by the Sunni minority and Saddam's propaganda established himself as a messianic-type figure. So yeah. Secular, schmecular.

So my statement was 100% accurate and your "gumdrops and rainbows" comment was 100% trash talk? Do you wonder why no one takes you seriously?

Your point seems to be you are in favor of invading and occupying totalitarian regimes - but you get to pick and choose which regimes you call "totalitarian" and which not. Funny but I bet many here can predict which way you will fall on a given regime - and it won't have anything to do with human rights.

If it were internally consistent, your POV might make more sense.

There are further problems with your statement; Iraq was bankrupted before the sanctions were imposed by Saddam's failed war with Iran which is why he tried to annex Kuwait. The sanctions were imposed because of the actions of Saddam, therefore they are his fault. Although he had various useful idiots on the Western left who were buttered-up and flattered to say otherwise.

Of course that opens up a whole new can of worms doesn't it?

Who supported Iraq in its failed war with Iran as well as after?

(Post war) This put Saddam in a difficult position, particularly with his war-time allies, as by then Iraq was under more than $130 billion of international debt, excluding the interest in an after war economy with a slowed GDP growth. A large portion of this debt was loaned by Paris Club amounting to $21 billion, 85% of which had originated from seven countries of Japan, Russia, France, Germany, United States, Italy and United Kingdom.

Why was the US lending Saddam money?

 

[geni]

So you're against military intervention, and against sanctions, so what would you have done about Hussein?

I thought that had been established. You set him on iran whenever they become a problem. Thats what he was for.

 

[geni]

So what? Of course in practice the state was dominated by the Sunni minority and Saddam's propaganda established himself as a messianic-type figure. So yeah. Secular, schmecular.

No I'm pretty sure it didn't. That would have got him lynched (its a cultural thing). Try salidin type.

There are further problems with your statement; Iraq was bankrupted before the sanctions were imposed by Saddam's failed war with Iran which is why he tried to annex Kuwait.

Doubtful. Iraq had/has enough oil to pay the costs. Iraq did have something of a case that Kuwait was stealing its oil but personaly I suspect the real motivation for the war was that when you have a massive army that can beat everyone else in the region with a couple of exceptions what else are you going to do?

 

[Virus]

Why was the US lending Saddam money?

Containment of Iran.

 

[Johny2x4]

Containment of Iran.

So basically, they´re only good until we need then and after that they become blood thirsty fascist dictatorship. Good to know you´re consistent.

 

[Virus]

So basically, they´re only good until we need then and after that they become blood thirsty fascist dictatorship. Good to know you´re consistent.

And the US was allied with Stalin at one point. Same principle. America didn't want Iran to become the major power-broker of the gulf.

 

[A'isha]

And the US was allied with Stalin at one point. Same principle. America didn't want Iran to become the major power-broker of the gulf.

How's that working out these days?

 

[Virus]

I don't think Iran's position has changed that much.

 

[geni]

I don't think Iran's position has changed that much.

It has been considerably strengthened. With Iraq out of the game and the US having used a lot of blood and treasure in the process Iran's position is stronger than ever. Throw in all that info they got on how to make life difficult for the US military from the Iraqi insurgency and things are looking pretty darn good. About the only downside from their POV is that the Taliban is on the rise again.