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Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga

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What do you think they are up to Border Reiver when those "space capsules" come back down?

Begging the question. The mountain of eyewitness, documentary, and circumstantial evidence proves that these space capsules were on the business of the missions their operators say they were. You provide absolutely no evidence to the contrary. You simply ignore a conclusive pile of proof ("Rocks? I don't do rocks.") and spin a tall tale for which you provide no proof aside from your uneducated proclamation that it's what they "logically would have done."

How else do you think these guys prove to themselves that this stuff works?

Get a degree in aerospace engineering, and then you'll learn. Until then, your question-begging attempts at proof by indirection and innuendo are simply comical.

The only way to test these weapons is to test them in space under live conditions, all of the components working together.

If you had any qualifications in this field, I might be tempted to pay attention to what you think is possible, impossible, satisfactory, or practical. I have an engineering degree and I worked for 2 years as a contractor to the NNSA. What are your qualifications?

I think it's absolutely hilarious for you to insist that an absolutely faithful all-up test is the only way to go, and then suggest that entirely different vehicles and payloads were used for that test. You have absolutely no clue how aerospace testing is performed.

It is as simple as that and it can be no other way.

Translation: Even though I've presented absolutely no evidence, my fingertips are firmly embedded in my ear canals and I will entertain no questions regarding my beliefs.

There is too much at stake obviously...

Standard Patrick1000TM Dramatic Inflation of Requirement. The need isn't absurdly great just because you say it is. Nor does any degree of need translate into proof for what you claim was done to satisfy that need. Do you see how one is not bound to the other?

DO YOUR HOMEWORK DUDE.......

I'm going to pretend you didn't just say this.
 
The rockets do not carry live warheads......

Aren't we consistently launching satellites into orbit on the same rockets we use for nuclear missiles? Wouldn't those rocket launches be the testing that you are talking about?

The rockets do not carry LIVE WARHEADS, they do not carry MIRV mechanisms, etc.......

Consider this Loss Leader, it is 1961, we want to know if our Atlas ICBMs work, REALLY WORK. Now, this means we want to know whether or not the guidance system gets the thing into space with the nuke where it is -270 degrees centigrade(sort of, we all know space has no real temperature but things would cool off to this temp after they radiated away their heat) and gets the nuke into space in position to fall back to us RIGHT ON TARGET? Assuming that has occurred, assuming the nuke finds space and finds the right space, what about the way back in? That nuke is an insanely delicate thing, and going 20 times the speed of sound through the earth's atmosphere is gonna' heat that bad boy up something fierce. Are you sure this bomb is gonna' run that cold/hot gauntlet and be in shape good enough to pop at the end of that run?

Again, it is 1961 and Nikita Khrushchev has been eating piroshki and cutting farts in Uncle Sam's White, Blue and RED face, making fun of us, launching satellites that float above us saying, "BEEP BEEP BEEP, HELLO YANKS GUESS WHO IS DANGLING A BIG PIROSHKI OVER YOUR HEAD?" as they go 'round and 'round.

You cannot test a live nuclear warhead carrying nuke PUBLICLY without presidential approval loss leader. What you want to do of course, among many other things, is at least for starters shoot an Atlas missile carrying a "live/real warhead" that cannot be triggered, a few of them, from Cape Canaveral toward the general direction of the Soviet Union, have the warhead "land" in the Atlantic well short of Africa/Eaurope, recover the warhead and be sure everything worked correctly.

Now how are you going to pull that off Loss Leader? You got it....... 6 of the Mercury Space Program unmanned launches were with Atlas rockets. You fire your birds, with your warheads and , VIOLA!!!! you have begun to get the answers you need so vital to your program.

Do the missiles really work? this was the ONLY way to have found out. and the space program was vital to this testing endeavor.

Not so hard, and no one even knew, except of course the military guys, the prez and Ruskies.

Cool, no?
 
DO YOUR HOMEWORK DUDE.......

Large wall of off topic nonsense snipped. The salient bit left behind.

Every single post you make is being refuted by experts in their field, why do you consistently ignore the replies? Homework in any of the subjects you are firing your badly informed speculation at, though highly recommended, would not come close to years of study to expert status, and experience at first hand.

Google is not informing you, it is merely allowing you a scant understanding of subjects that you are not qualified to preach on.
 
Aren't we consistently launching satellites into orbit on the same rockets we use for nuclear missiles? Wouldn't those rocket launches be the testing that you are talking about?

This is the big hole in Patrick's tale.

Mercury and Gemini (and a large number of satellites)used Redstone, Atlas and Titan launch vehicles all of which were also ICBM launch vehicles, and all of which were used for ICBM tests. (Also, Little Joe, but that was purpose built for Mercury)

Literally hundreds were launched. In fact the Atlas is still in use today and has launches scheduled up to 2020, albeit it has been modified and developed over time.

There were 15 Mercury launches (ignoring Little Joe), and 12 Gemini launches using Redstone/Atlas/Titan launch vehicles for a total of 25 (ETA: oops 27) out of the HUNDREDS of other launches of the very same vehicles for research, civilian and military purposes.

If, as Patrick proposes , the manned space program was simply a facade to hide ICBM testing, he must perforce account for the hundreds of other launches, many of which were PRECISELY ICBM tests.

How come all of those hundreds of other launches, particularly the military ones, did not seem to need to be hidden by the facade of a supposed fake manned program?

Once again, Patrick's supposition turns out to be all hole with no substance.
 
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The moon is a navigational satellite Border Reiver.....

Patrick the only thing that truly scares me is your lack of basic understanding of so many varied topics. And this topic includes weapons development (and probably employment as well, but that remains to be seen).

The manned space program is not a cover for covert weapons testing. The world already knew that nuclear weapons were a reality as a result of 2 flights in August 1945, and numerous atmospheric tests carried out by both powers from 1946 to 1963. Both sides had missiles, and knew that they would land where they were aimed at to within a certain PER, and that refinements to the guidance systems would reduce that.

We and by we I mean the Western powers and the Soviets, knew that artificial satellites were key to improving accuracy, not the moon. That is why there are a large number of navigational satellites out there.

The moon


The moon is a navigational satellite Border Reiver.....It's been used as a navigational satellite pretty much forever. It was just made all there better in terms of functioning in such a capacity by way of instrumentation.
 
I'll be as concrete as I can for you here Jay.....

In every thread at JREF you insist on posting these lengthy, irrelevant biographical sketches. No one wants to hear about your philosophical "journey" through your conspiracy theories. We just want proof.








I'll be as concrete as I can for you here Jay.....The NASA Mercury Program was primarily a program to test the function of the Atlas booster and warhead. Of course the warheads flown during the unmanned Mercury flights were not detonated, but they were undoubtedly "live" in the sense of their being bona fide hydrogen/thermonuclear weapons that were carried on board the Atlas sticks.

Testing our ballistic missiles like this Jay was the ONLY way available to us to ensure that the stupid things worked. AND WE DO KNOW THAT THEY WORK NOW DON'T WE JAY? So they MUST HAVE TESTED THE NUKES THIS WAY. IT WAS/IS THE ONLY TESTING FORUM AVAILABLE TO US.
 
My premise is not wrong matt and your bogus reasoning exposes your naiveté ......

Translation: Based on my ignorance of all basic scientific principles I shall extrapolate my fantasies into the realm of the ridiculous.





Do you really think they would detonate a 600 kt warhead over a populated island? No, the missile was launched towards Christmas Island and detonated 500 nm short of it.





The flight path would be very similar, i.e. all the things you said a missile would experience the Frigate Bird missile did experience. So your entire premise is wrong.





The design flaws of the US' early warheads is a matter of the historical record and is irrelevant to Apollo.



"Different" is relative and you're trying to exaggerate it to make it fit your fantasy. The Earth's gravitational field varies a minute amount, so minute in fact, it takes a long duration satellite survey to properly map it. The slightly varying gravitational field will throw a ballistic missile off slightly but not enough to have to worry about given the yield of the early warheads. Later, when we improved the technology and thoroughly charted the Earth's gravitational field we shifted to smaller yield warheads.

You were spanked on this very early in the thread. Myself and others told you about satellite geodesy and months later you started "lecturing" us on satellite geodesy, as if you knew it all along. But now it seems like you forgot the lesson we taught you and you're going back to your idiotic LRRR geodesy. This is going to come as a shock to your but the geodesy satellites also measured the Earth's gravity. Which would make a more valuable geodetic measuring device: a satellite that orbits the Earth in 1.5 hours or one that orbits the Earth in 29.5 days? Besides the Moon is too far away to chart the Earth's local gravitational anomalies.





Absurd in the extreme. If you want to test a ballistic missile you test that missile, not something 200 times bigger.

This is your lamest attempt and your longest wall of text yet. Coincidence? I think not.

My premise is not wrong matt, and your bogus reasoning exposes your naiveté.... .....

Every new system; Atlas, Polaris, Poseidon, Trident, Minuteman, MX needs to be tested with its LIVE warhead, with its MIRV bus, with its guided MIRV reentry vehicles, or we need to simulate a live test as best we can.

We have a wide variety of warheads that were developed over time, our guidance systems have changed again and again. Guidance was added to SLBM reentry vehicles to augment performance post Polaris.

If we develop a new land based ICBM tomorrow matt with an accompanying new warhead, a new boost phase guidance system and a new reentry system guidance mechanism, are we going to depend on the 6 May 1962 Operation Frigate Bird Test to guarantee this thing will work? Sure we can test its components here on earth in various ways, but how can one be sure about the performance of this stuff? Answer; Mercury/Gemini/Apollo/Shuttle/Whatever is next. These were and continue to be out testing programs.
 
If we develop a new land based ICBM tomorrow matt with an accompanying new warhead, a new boost phase guidance system and a new reentry system guidance mechanism, are we going to depend on the 6 May 1962 Operation Frigate Bird Test to guarantee this thing will work? Sure we can test its components here on earth in various ways, but how can one be sure about the performance of this stuff? Answer; Mercury/Gemini/Apollo/Shuttle/Whatever is next. These were and continue to be out testing programs.


Here's an article I found after no minutes of searching that says you're completely wrong. Note that it's being reported by an Indian aerospace news organization, so the launch was not exactly secret. Nor would there ever be a need for such secrecy because: 1) You want the enemy to know that your equipment can reach and kill them; 2) Such a test doesn't violate any treaties including any nuclear test ban treaties; and 3) the enemy can detect our ICBM and rocket launches anyway.


Minuteman III ICBM test-fired at Vandenberg Air Force Base

2009-06-29 said:
Vandenberg Air Force Base officials launched an unarmed Minuteman III intercontinental ballistic missile configured with a National Nuclear Security Administration test assembly from North Vandenberg at 3:01 a.m. PDT June 29.

The launch was an operational test to verify the weapon system's reliability and accuracy.

The missile carried three unarmed re-entry vehicles approximately 4,190 miles at speeds in excess of 24,000 mph to their predetermined targets near the Kwajalein Atoll in the Marshall Islands.
 
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I am hardly trying to wiggle out of anything matt....

This is what you wrote:


There is no possible way you meant it figuratively or as a worst case scenario. It was just another example of your atrocious research.

Your whole militarization of the Moon fantasy collapses under the weight that to set up all that equipment on the Moon would require men on location to set it up.

If they can land Surveyor VII on the moon matt , they can land a LM. It was not a problem.

Nor was it a problem for NASA's manned space group to pretend to launch astronauts when in reality they were launching for the purpose of testing nuclear warhead carrying ballistic missiles.

This is obvious to us all now matt. The sooner you accept it the sooner you can more or less relax about it all, such as one can relax about this most disturbing stuff.

Take it from me, there is no sense in fighting this truth.
 
Right, Patrick, riiiight. Please tell me how the acceleration of a ballistic rocket is a challenge that can only be answered in actual testing, when nuclear warheads had been successfully subjected to the shock and acceleration of a HOWITZER since the mid 50's.

You've finally descended to that usual level of conspiracy theorists, in which all knowledge is suspect and all facts are waive-able except for those few things you can directly see and touch; the attitude that says "We can't really know what stars are like" and so on so forth.

Except in your case it is impossible to predict the behavior of a missile delivering a nuclear warhead.......except by firing off a completely different missile with no warhead and aiming at the Moon.....?
 
I'll be as concrete as I can for you here Jay.....The NASA Mercury Program was primarily a program to test the function of the Atlas booster and warhead. Of course the warheads flown during the unmanned Mercury flights were not detonated, but they were undoubtedly "live" in the sense of their being bona fide hydrogen/thermonuclear weapons that were carried on board the Atlas sticks.

Yes, you've stated this belief several times. You have provided no proof for this alternate use -- you simply claim it follows naturally from what you believe the defense needs were at the time. How does your argument differ from a fairly tale? Do you honestly believe that your propositions are proven solely by your having taken the time to write them down?

Testing our ballistic missiles like this Jay was the ONLY way available to us to ensure that the stupid things worked.

I'm sorry, what were your qualifications again in aerospace engineering? I'd really like an answer to that, since you're presuming to describe the limits and practices of the licensed profession I work in.

AND WE DO KNOW THAT THEY WORK NOW DON'T WE JAY? So they MUST HAVE TESTED THE NUKES THIS WAY. IT WAS/IS THE ONLY TESTING FORUM AVAILABLE TO US.

A perfectly circular argument.
 
I'll be as concrete as I can for you here Jay.....The NASA Mercury Program was primarily a program to test the function of the Atlas booster and warhead. Of course the warheads flown during the unmanned Mercury flights were not detonated, but they were undoubtedly "live" in the sense of their being bona fide hydrogen/thermonuclear weapons that were carried on board the Atlas sticks.

Testing our ballistic missiles like this Jay was the ONLY way available to us to ensure that the stupid things worked. AND WE DO KNOW THAT THEY WORK NOW DON'T WE JAY? So they MUST HAVE TESTED THE NUKES THIS WAY. IT WAS/IS THE ONLY TESTING FORUM AVAILABLE TO US.

Here is a list of all the Atlas launches. Why did some few need to be covered by a "faked manned program", while the rest did not?
 
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Sure i have, my proof is airtight......

You have offered no evidence for this claim; all you have is supposition. This is in no way a demonstration. LL can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is the equivalent of a conclusory allegation in a lawsuit.




Did it occur to you that LeMay and Goldwater might not be the most unbiased commentators on the potential reliability of ICBMs and (especially) SLBMs? Can you think of a possible reason they might be biased? I'll give you a hint: Think about the nickname you used for LeMay.




Frankly, you are not the least bit qualified to make any such determination.




"I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the Moon and returning him safely to the Earth. No single space project in this period will be more impressive to mankind, or more important in the long-range exploration of space; and none will be so difficult or expensive to accomplish."
--John F. Kennedy, May 24, 1961​

Kennedy must have been extremely prescient to have come up with such a sweeping plan to avoid the treaty more than two years before it was signed, and more than three years before Goldwater and LeMay made their comments.

Additionally, the last flight of Project Mercury, which you claim was part of the "occult" testing program, took place before the treaty was signed.




See above.




Again, you are in no way qualified to comment on the potential utility of such testing. But just out of curiosity, why do you believe that simply flying a warhead into space without detonating it would provide a particularly meaningful test of whether it would actually detonate if fired for real?

Sure I have, my proof is airtight......We have 4 acknowledged ICBM tests, Ruskies pre 1963, USA and Operation Frigate Bird 1962, China 1966 and 1976. Can't be very confident with that now can ya'? No matter how much terrestrial testing one does now can ya'?

They are designing and bringing on line new weapons all of the time. They have to be sure that they work and this means live firings, live missile firings short of full fledged warhead detonations. There was/is a test ban treaty prohibiting the militaries from doing this and so how did they and how do they today get the job done? Under the guise of manned space programs. It is the only option, and so by the process of elimination, it must be true. It is rather obvious actually. Surprising no one else has previously written about this as directly as i am now.

That said, this is another one of those things that is no secret. Any country that has a half way decent intelligence service would have learned about this. Again, the Israelis are no slouches. They would have known this was true of the Mercury Project, that it was a cover for Atlas ICBM testing. Even way back in the 1960s they would have figured it out.

So my saying the only ones that knew were the Ruskies us and the prez is a bit tongue in cheek. Anyone familiar with world realities, intelligence agencies, they would be on to this fairly early on. I would imagine by the end of the 60s most major players knew on some level.
 
My premise is not wrong matt, and your bogus reasoning exposes your naiveté.... .....

Every new system; Atlas, Polaris, Poseidon, Trident, Minuteman, MX needs to be tested with its LIVE warhead, with its MIRV bus, with its guided MIRV reentry vehicles...

No, it doesn't -- and this exposes your naivete. Please tell us what your qualifications are in this science, that enables you to talk so condescendingly to your critics.

Nobody does continuous all-up testing with live warheads. Contrary to your uninformed claims, this is not necessary.

...or we need to simulate a live test as best we can.

Ponder that for a little while. I'll let you stew for a day or so, and then I'll tell you how these things are really tested, and why the testing works.

Sure we can test its components here on earth in various ways, but how can one be sure about the performance of this stuff?

Indeed how? Engineers know how, but you don't know anything about engineering so you don't know, do you? Where's your "common sense" now? Wallowing in ignorance, as usual?

Answer; Mercury/Gemini/Apollo/Shuttle/Whatever is next.

Um, no. First, you've provided zero evidence that any of these programs were retasked. There are historical examples of retasked and multitasked space programs. Why aren't you referring to those?

Second -- and this has been asked multiple times -- how does anything in those manned programs achieve test fidelity for nuclear weapons? You're proposing to do all-up testing with completely unrelated hardware. How does that tell you what you want to know? How does dissecting a horse tell you about the anatomy of a kitten?
 
The moon is a navigational satellite Border Reiver.....It's been used as a navigational satellite pretty much forever. It was just made all there better in terms of functioning in such a capacity by way of instrumentation.

After more than 130 pages of ignoring your critics, you have utterly failed to prove anything of the sort. You just state and restate your belief as if the universe were somehow obligated to conform to your ill-informed expectations, which change and contradict each other often within the same post.

Further, you have intentionally dodged any attempt to measure whether you actually know any of the sciences that pertain to your claims. Your critics have all consented to state the basis of their expertise, and further to demonstrate it. On what grounds then do you reject their statements as naive or misinformed, when you yourself admit to arguing only from the basis of "common sense?"

Hasn't this circus gone on long enough?
 
The rockets do not carry LIVE WARHEADS, they do not carry MIRV mechanisms, etc...

Indeed they do not, nor do they need to. The notion that all-up testing is always required is a layman's misunderstanding of test methodology.

Now, this means we want to know whether or not the guidance system gets the thing into space...

Why must this be done with a live warhead attached? How does the guidance system compute differently depending on whether it's carrying a nuclear warhead or the equivalently distributed mass of steel and concrete?

with the nuke where it is -270 degrees centigrade...

No, that's simplistic. It goes into an environment where there is a different heat transfer profile than on Earth. That doesn't require all-up testing.

That nuke is an insanely delicate thing...

How many (thermo)nuclear re-entry vehicle designs have you personally worked on? I want an exact number.

...and going 20 times the speed of sound through the earth's atmosphere is gonna' heat that bad boy up something fierce.

Yes, re-entry submits the entry vehicle to a specific thermal profile. That doesn't require all-up testing.

Are you sure this bomb is gonna' run that cold/hot gauntlet and be in shape good enough to pop at the end of that run?

Yes. And the means for validating that have nothing to do with launch vehicle operations.

Now how are you going to pull that off Loss Leader? You got it....... 6 of the Mercury Space Program unmanned launches were with Atlas rockets. You fire your birds, with your warheads...

And a Mercury spacecraft resembles, mimics, or simulates a nuclear warhead ... exactly how?

Do the missiles really work? this was the ONLY way to have found out.

Correct: it's the only way you can think of. Straw man, rejected.

Not so hard, and no one even knew, except of course the military guys, the prez and Ruskies.

...and a conspiracy theorist with no training in aerospace engineering, nuclear engineering, or the scientific method. Even the thousands upon thousands of engineers who worked on this technology and who practice it today as a licensed profession are completely unaware of it. Just the "military guys," the heads of state -- and one guy who claims to be a 54-year-old physician who read The Big Book of Missiles.
 
Here's an article I found after no minutes of searching that says you're completely wrong.

This test was conducted by the NNSA, an agency for whom I contracted as an engineer for a few years. The task is euphemistically called "stockpile stewardship," but what it really means is ensuring the credibility of the U.S. nuclear deterrent without violating treaties or international law. The notion that this can't be done without all-up testing, and that we have to go to enormous lengths to conceal that testing (i.e., our egregious treaty violation) is pure fantasy. The NNSA's work covers the gamut of nuclear warfare, from delivery system validation to warhead viability. It is well funded.
 
It is a nice article Loss Leader , but actually sort of makes my point....

Here's an article I found after no minutes of searching that says you're completely wrong. Note that it's being reported by an Indian aerospace news organization, so the launch was not exactly secret. Nor would there ever be a need for such secrecy because: 1) You want the enemy to know that your equipment can reach and kill them; 2) Such a test doesn't violate any treaties including any nuclear test ban treaties; and 3) the enemy can detect our ICBM and rocket launches anyway.


Minuteman III ICBM test-fired at Vandenberg Air Force Base

It is a nice article Loss Leader, thanks in all sincerity. I got a lot out of it. That said, it is an article that actually sort of makes my point...Note these warheads from your nice article are "unarmed reentry" vehicles. what you need are LIVE nukes cuz' they are gonna' go cold and hot flying through space then back through the atmosphere. So this test is not what we are looking for Loss Leader, though it is a test not without significance, relevance to our discussion here. As helpful as such tests may be to the military analysts assessing missile performance, they additionally provide sort of a cover, "proof for the public" that these things work. What if they NEVER tested a missile. THEN, EVERYONE WOULD GET SUSPICIOUS THAT THEY WERE TESTING THEM SECRETLY.

Of course we know ICBMS work and we know they work because they have been appropriately tested, the missiles with nukes guidance MIRV buses, the whole bit that is. We know they must have carried this junk into space and then let the bombs fall back through the atmosphere for post space cold exposure cold and atmospheric testing. It is just the powers that be cannot tell us that. So they do these tests which you referenced Loss Leader, which again are meaningful from a weapons analyst's perspective, no question, but they are not tests which answer the big questions. Those big questions being posed here and by others like Goldwater before me.

An additional point that I shall cover in later posts has to do with the nature of this particular kind of testing, firing a test bird west over the Pacific from Vandenberg. The US does essentially all of its PUBLIC testing in this way. It is quite inadequate with respect to targeting Moscow which is north. The course a missile would follow to Moscow if "fired in anger" as they say would not be out of Vandenberg.

A big problem according to some(not all) ICBM guidance specialists back in the 60s and even today is that the earth's gravitational field is not uniform and aside from knowing launch site and target site latitude and longitude precisely, the missile's gravitational field "course" is the most important datum with regard to successful targeting. Now thanks to LRRR work and satellite mapping, we know how the earth's gravitational field varies over its surface place to place , point to point, and this can be programed into the rocket's computer and indeed MUST BE if you plan to hit something as small and hard as a Soviet silo.

However, how does one know if your guidance systems will perform well heading from say a launcher in Montana to now Saint Petersburg, then Leningrad? Most certainly not by way of launching an ICBM with dummy warheads from Vandenberg west to the Marshalls.

General Hepfer considered by many to be the father of the MX points out and I quote, "aligning a Minuteman to accomplish its intended mission is like threading a needle from 400 feet away".

Back in the day, the mirrors employed in doing this had to be adjusted manually. Hepfer again, "They had a tube that went down into the silo, and then they had a mirror, and they would have guys go out in sub-zero weather, minus 30 degrees....sighting on the stars and transferring....an azimuth alignment...you are talking arc seconds to align to..I had some of the young fellows work for me and they would say, ' well, we got kind of cold, and your only desire was to get out of the cold, you didn't really care if it was 10 arc seconds or 30 arc seconds ', and that would really negate the accuracy of the system."

Bringing up Hepfer here is worthwhile because it emphasizes all the subtleties of this. Hepfer was a man who was convinced gravitational field/magnetic field considerations were no big deal, that they were problems, if problems at all that were effectively dealt with. But Hepfer was adamantine and would emphasize time and time again that there was this HUMAN ERROR issue, well illustrated in my quote above. AND, the only way one could tell if an ICBM might actually find the spires of the Kremlin when so called upon to do so would be to simulate such a flight as best you could, with a live warhead so you could assess the bomb's viability upon its return to earth. Would it have detonated were it to have had a trigger? Were the gravity issues a big deal when launching north vs west?

When they trot a missile out Vandenberg way, they "cheat" in a sense. They don't align the mirrors by hand today as before Loss Leader, but the point is, back in those days, when they did test missiles with the hand aligned mirrors, they would align the mirrors with great care before a test launch. What guys like Hepfer wanted to do was see how well these missiles would fly after his boys had aligned their mirrors in the real life situation "good enough?" described above. A situation in which his boys according to him had cut corners. The only way one might test for this type of thing would be multiple test launches with mirror accuracy taken into consideration. The manned space flight program of the United States provided such information and a heck of a lot more.
 
Note these warheads from your nice article are "unarmed reentry" vehicles. what you need are LIVE nukes cuz' they are gonna' go cold and hot flying through space then back through the atmosphere.


Actually, according to the article, the reentry vehicle was packed with scientific equipment to measure whatever important aspects need to be measured,. That's better than a real warhead. If the real warhead fails, all they would know is that it failed. With precise measurements of temperature, pressure, g-forces, etc., engineers can build and test warheads in whole and in parts for the specific conditions that will be experienced.


As helpful as such tests may be to the military analysts assessing missile performance, they additionally provide sort of a cover, "proof for the public" that these things work. What if they NEVER tested a missile. THEN, EVERYONE WOULD GET SUSPICIOUS THAT THEY WERE TESTING THEM SECRETLY.


They test missiles publicly to hide the fact that they test them secretly? Then why do they have to test them secretly at all? If everyone - all of our friends and enemies and all of our citizens - know the tests are taking place, what aspect of them needs to be secret?


It is just the powers that be cannot tell us that.


The US has admitted to nuking its own citizens and actually paid them compensation. What exact reason would the Powers That Be have for hiding the weapons tests that didn't give anyone cancer?



An additional point that I shall cover in later posts has to do with the nature of this particular kind of testing, firing a test bird west over the Pacific from Vandenberg. The US does essentially all of its PUBLIC testing in this way. It is quite inadequate with respect to targeting Moscow which is north. The course a missile would follow to Moscow if "fired in anger" as they say would not be out of Vandenberg.


You perhaps missed the point where the article was from 2009. Why would we have wanted to scare the Russians in 2009? That particular missile test, if I'm not mistaken, was probably intended to scare North Korea. North Korea is a country located across the Pacific. Also, a missile coming into NK off the Pacific doesn't stand a chance of violating Russian or Chinese airspace, which might be kind of a big deal.
 
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