And the boats keep coming

[Wildy]

But he doesn't have to back up those claims because they're "side issues" and therefore "irrelevant".

 

[Sceptic-PK]

It's amusing to see Alfie demand proof from others when he's been so averse to providing proof himself.

Pretty much. I'm done on this topic with him. Complete waste of my time.

 

[bit_pattern]

Rubbish!

So you are saying that you honestly believe that a higher percentage of boat arrivals have received refugee status than those that arrived during the Howard era? And that Immigration officials change the way the assess refugee claims according to which party is in power?

Really?

 

[bit_pattern]

Could you point us to the legislative reforms enacted by the Howard Goverment in its first 12-18 months in office that led to the first surge in 20ish years?

[qimg]http://www.yopinion.com.au/content/upload/images/issues/refugees/boat_arrival_graph.jpg[/qimg]

Wrong stats.

We were talking about the % of boat arrivals that receive refugee status compared to other forms of applicants. And you can look at any of the government sources cited throughout this thread and it is patently clear - boat arrivals are consistently found to have genuine refugee claims than any other applicant. that was the same under Howard, the same under this government. It has nothing to do with Immigration being a "soft touch" on asylum seekers.

 

[lionking]

Abbott is again demonstrating that there are no depths too deep for him to stoop to. A compromise is possible, but he's not interested. If blood is on anyone's hand, it's his.

 

[wombatwal]

Now Ruddock and Downer are asking for a reconciled agreement between both parties.
Downer went as far as saying that Abbott should initially keep out of negotiations.
This impasse is sickening.
The parties have to get together and try and sort this out.
What the conservatives are saying that they won't sit down unless there is a concrete set of ideas is ludicrous.

THE former immigration minister Philip Ruddock has said a compromise asylum deal could include Labor's preferred option of processing in Malaysia if that country formalised a promise not to return refugees to countries of persecution.
And another former Howard government minister, Alexander Downer, has said Tony Abbott should initially keep out of negotiations and let his team of ministers sit down and talk to government ministers to break the political impasse on offshore processing before Christmas.
''The public want the government to do something about this - when you see those people drowning it's heart-wrenching stuff,'' Mr Downer said.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/mala...ays-ruddock-20111220-1p421.html#ixzz1h9MIjysk​

 

[Hallo Alfie]

So you are saying that you honestly believe that a higher percentage of boat arrivals have received refugee status than those that arrived during the Howard era? And that Immigration officials change the way the assess refugee claims according to which party is in power?

No. I don't agree with that at all. My mistake: I misunderstood which angle you were coming from (see below).

Wrong stats.

We were talking about the % of boat arrivals that receive refugee status compared to other forms of applicants. And you can look at any of the government sources cited throughout this thread and it is patently clear - boat arrivals are consistently found to have genuine refugee claims than any other applicant. that was the same under Howard, the same under this government. It has nothing to do with Immigration being a "soft touch" on asylum seekers.

This is basically my understanding too - those granted refugee status are basically the same. My "rubbish" comment went to the PS and the number of boats arriving which is what I incorrectly thought you were claiming.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

Abbott is again demonstrating that there are no depths too deep for him to stoop to. A compromise is possible, but he's not interested. If blood is on anyone's hand, it's his.

Gee for an opposition leader he sure has a lot of power doesn't he? So much so that he could stop the carbon tax, the NBN, cattle exports etc etc.

I find the disconnect quite amazing here: Gillard is in power. She has rammed through how many pieces of legislation? "A lot" is what you keep spruiking.

Why are the greens and independents not being brought to task here?

Moreover, who was it that dismantled offshore processing only to now want it back?

Why would Abbott want to talk to Labor on this anyway unless there was something different on the table anyway? Labor have been adamant the whole way through that it's basically Malaysia or bust and now that it has gone pear shaped through their belligerence and usual mismanagement, it's suddenly not their fault.

It's all Abbott's fault! Riiight!

 

[wombatwal]

Gee for an opposition leader he sure has a lot of power doesn't he? So much so that he could stop the carbon tax, the NBN, cattle exports etc etc.

I find the disconnect quite amazing here: Gillard is in power. She has rammed through how many pieces of legislation? "A lot" is what you keep spruiking.

Why are the greens and independents not being brought to task here?

Moreover, who was it that dismantled offshore processing only to now want it back?

Why would Abbott want to talk to Labor on this anyway unless there was something different on the table anyway? Labor have been adamant the whole way through that it's basically Malaysia or bust and now that it has gone pear shaped through their belligerence and usual mismanagement, it's suddenly not their fault.

It's all Abbott's fault! Riiight!

The reason why the Greens are not being brought to task is because they do not support off shore processing.
Labor and conservatives have a common goal in off shore processing. So they need to get together urgently and try to work out a compromise.
They do not need something different to bring to the table, they need to get together to find common ground. This is really rather simple stuff and something that needs to be done urgently.

 

[Wildy]

Alfie, I'm a little amazed that you see nothing wrong with what Abbott is doing at the moment. I would have thought you'd be saying that he should be trying to actually negotiate with the government because people are dying and we need a solution.

I don't know why you're going on about the Greens though, what chance do you think Labor has of convincing them to adopt offshore processing?

 

[amb]

Abbott is again demonstrating that there are no depths too deep for him to stoop to. A compromise is possible, but he's not interested. If blood is on anyone's hand, it's his.

Was it not the Rudd-Gillard government that immediately on entering government set about dismantling the Howard governments border protection policy? If blame for blood on their hands is to be appropriated, it's squarely on the Labor and Greens socialist ideology.

 

[lionking]

Was it not the Rudd-Gillard government that immediately on entering government set about dismantling the Howard governments border protection policy? If blame for blood on their hands is to be appropriated, it's squarely on the Labor and Greens socialist ideology.

Ancient history. What about Abbott? Why isn't he negotiating? He's a coward.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

The reason why the Greens are not being brought to task is because they do not support off shore processing.

Correct. But they have their preferred policy in place right now and it costs lives.

Labor and conservatives have a common goal in off shore processing. So they need to get together urgently and try to work out a compromise.

I agree.

They do not need something different to bring to the table,

They most certainly do (*see below)

they need to get together to find common ground. This is really rather simple stuff and something that needs to be done urgently.

I agree.

Alfie, I'm a little amazed that you see nothing wrong with what Abbott is doing at the moment.

I have not said he is doing nothing wrong. In fact I find the politicking disgusting and have said so twice now.

But for you lot to paint this as all Abbott's fault is a total disconnect and disgusting to boot.

*What is happening is:
"Abbott won’t discuss a compromise plan the Gillard government hasn’t formulated, cannot explain and which would not fly in any case." Ergo, it's all his fault.

I would have thought you'd be saying that he should be trying to actually negotiate with the government because people are dying and we need a solution.

I have said so already.

I don't know why you're going on about the Greens though, what chance do you think Labor has of convincing them to adopt offshore processing?

None whatsoever. But it is Labor who is in bed with them. It is effectively green policy we have now because of the pressure they have brought Gillard to bear over this during the past 12 months. Gillard is only now starting to stare them down.

Was it not the Rudd-Gillard government that immediately on entering government set about dismantling the Howard governments border protection policy? If blame for blood on their hands is to be appropriated, it's squarely on the Labor and Greens socialist ideology.

Indeed it was.
They pulled it to bits and now they scream "it's all is fault" because they did. This is one element of the disconnect evident here.

Ancient history. What about Abbott? Why isn't he negotiating? He's a coward.

He is ready to negotiate, what he has said is that if Labor are coming to the table with nothing but Malaysia again they can forget it. If they have something else, let's hear about a bit of it first.

I think that is fair enough given Gillard's sneaky underhanded history. Why would he believe she is sincere now?

 

[amb]

Ancient history. What about Abbott? Why isn't he negotiating? He's a coward.

I repeat. Had it not been for a socialist ideology there would not have been any need for the mad monk to agree to anything.

 

[lionking]

I repeat. Had it not been for a socialist ideology there would not have been any need for the mad monk to agree to anything.

Socialist? Where's my laughing dog.

 

[amb]

Socialist? Where's my laughing dog.

I presume you've never read a Greens policy statement,or for that matter, a Labor left policy statement.

 

[a_unique_person]

The reason why the Greens are not being brought to task is because they do not support off shore processing.

I don't know why you bothered to tell him that when he knew it already. For someone who prides himself on his command of the facts, he comes up with the most inane debating points.

 

[bit_pattern]

I presume you've never read a Greens policy statement,or for that matter, a Labor left policy statement.

I'd be very interested to see the Greens policy statement calling for teh workers to control the means of production. Can you please quote it for me?

 

[Hallo Alfie]

I don't know why you bothered to tell him that when he knew it already. For someone who prides himself on his command of the facts, he comes up with the most inane debating points.

So you don't think that the moron's Green's influence over the Gillard government in the past 18 months has had anything to do with government policy. Get serious!

 

[Hallo Alfie]

I'd be very interested to see the Greens policy statement calling for teh workers to control the means of production. Can you please quote it for me?

I'm not certain I would call the socialist per se, however some of their values and backgrounds are of that strain (e.g. Lee Rhiannon).

That aside, most of the moron's Green's policies are not written down anywhere. For example, can you show us what and where their policy for non genuine refugee arrivals is?