Rick Santorum is an idiot, a bigot, and morally inconsistent...

[tyr_13]

I didn't say there shouldn't be any debate. Calling people "idiots" and "bigots" is not debating, it's mudslinging.

But you didn't advocate more reasoned debate, you advocate only not voting for them. Your current criticism wasn't your original one.

 

[Johny2x4]

Wich makes him no different than any other religious person out there.

Why you choose to pick on this one is maybe because this is a slow news day and you need your daily fix of Republican bashing.

FYI, Rand is a Republican or ex-Republican, from what I once read on a post.

 

[Pardalis]

I think this is where you're missing the point. Randfan isn't saying that Santorum is like the KKK in all ways but rather in the very specific way he laid out.

Oh come on, nobody mentions the KKK in a sentence for such a subtle reason.

Kinda like calling OWS occutards?

I never used that word. I think it's childish. <SNIP>

Did you come to THEIR defense.

No, because I don't think they deserve it.

Edited, breach of rule 12.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Locknar

 

[Robrob]

With about 2% of the vote he's pretty much a non-issue.

 

[RandFan]

FYI, Rand is a Republican or ex-Republican, from what I once read on a post.

Do a search. I've been here for exactly 10 years and 38,000+ posts. I have passionately defended Bush and Republican policies.

 

[tyr_13]

Oh come on, nobody mentions the KKK in a sentence for such a subtle reason.

They both advocate the same policy, so I'm not seeing just a poisoning of the well. That Santorum doesn't also advocate violence against gay people doesn't mean what he is advocating doesn't overlap with the KKK.

 

[Pardalis]

They both advocate the same policy, so I'm not seeing just a poisoning of the well. That Santorum doesn't also advocate violence against gay people doesn't mean what he is advocating doesn't overlap with the KKK.

OK, so I could use that against regular Muslims, I'm sure some of their beliefs overlap with Al Qeada's positions.

That would of course be wrong, but it's OK for Republican candidates?

 

[RandFan]

Oh come on, nobody mentions the KKK in a sentence for such a subtle reason.

I agree. I don't mean to be subtle. I think Santorum is immoral. I think his rhetoric betrays a cynical and pernicious world view. I stand by that.

Santorum might be an easy target and unlikely to get the nomination. If that was your complaint would have respect for it. As it is, Santorum is a despicable individual who demonizes decent people for political purposes and for that he deserves condimnation.

I never used that word. I think it's childish. I'll leave the playground name calling to Leftysergeant.

I will give you credit for that. Thank you.

 

[RandFan]

OK, so I could use that against regular Muslims, I'm sure some of their beliefs overlap with Al Qeada's positions.

That would of course be wrong, but it's OK for Republican candidates?

Let's be clear. Laser like. Santorum's rhetoric is disgusting. Hurtful. If some one said similar things about Christians I'd be all over their ass and I think Christianity is BS. I've nothing at all to apologize for. Santorum well deserves harsh criticism. No one should be allowed to demonize a group of people as Santorum has demonized gays and lesbians.

 

[RandFan]

OK, so I could use that against regular Muslims, I'm sure some of their beliefs overlap with Al Qeada's positions.

It would be wrong to judge Muslims for the evil of Ahmadinejad. It's easy to judge Ahmadinejad for the evil of Ahmadinejad. You are confusing things. I don't judge Santorum for being an evangelical Christian. Nor do I judge evangelicals for the the hurtful and harmful things Santorum has said. I judge Santorum for his hurtful and harmful rhetoric. That's easy to stand behind.

 

[Pardalis]

Let's be clear. Laser like. Santorum's rhetoric is disgusting. Hurtful. If some one said similar things about Christians I'd be all over their ass and I think Christianity is BS. I've nothing at all to apologize for. Santorum well deserves harsh criticism. No one should be allowed to demonize a group of people as Santorum has demonized gays and lesbians.

Then you got your work cut out for you, because 98% of the world is religious.

 

[RandFan]

Then you got your work cut out for you, because 98% of the world is religious.

Oh, I know that. But the trend is good.

BTW: When I came here 10 years ago I would often write Randi encouraging that the JREF be more accommodating. I was recently a non-believer and thought accommodation the best strategy. He and I had some very good debates on that.

Accommodation has its place. For me, now? I can't bite my tongue when I see and hear such evil acts or rhetoric. I honestly think it's embarrassing for the human race in general and America specifically that Santorum is a viable candidate. I'm not being hyperbolic, I really do feel that. For me it is as if a member of the KKK were as viable. How would you feel? What would you do? Would you apologize for David Duke? I'm sorry but I can't do that.

 

[Pardalis]

It would be wrong to judge Muslims for the evil of Ahmadinejad. It's easy to judge Ahmadinejad for the evil of Ahmadinejad. You are confusing things.

No, now you're the one a little confused. I was responding to the KKK analogy, which seems to be that since they share some beliefs about gays, so therefore they are comparable.

Nor do I judge evangelicals for the the hurtful and harmful things Santorum has said. I judge Santorum for his hurtful and harmful rhetoric. That's easy to stand behind.

Sure, his stances on gay marriage and contraception are harmful, but there are degrees of harm, and the KKK is not even in the same ball park.

BTW, I still like you.

 

[RandFan]

No, now you're the one a little confused. I was responding to the KKK analogy, which seems to be that since they share some beliefs about gays, so therefore they are comparable.

The comparison is only valid to get those who would be horrified that David Duke were taken seriously as a candidate. I think most would be upset.

Sure, his stances on gay marriage and contraception are harmful, but there are degrees of harm, and the KKK is not even in the same ball park.

I will agree as to degree but I'm not sure how much.

BTW, I still like you.

I very much like you too. We can disagree and be friends.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

My point was about morality. I'll concede that the views of the KKK are worse than the average evangelical.

I disagree. I believe it all depends on what circles one travels in. While there are certain areas where the KKK hold strong sway and if I were not a white male, I would fear for my well-being.

However, being a white male, there are still places that I would fear my well-being if I were to be openly homosexual.

Actually, those areas probably are greatly overlapping.

But as far as bigotry goes, there's no difference between violence against someone based on raceand violence against someone based on sexual orientation.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Hi, I'm Rick Santorum, Republican candidate for president of the United States.

As a Republican I consider the most pressing concern facing Americans today is jobs. And I share that concern. I believe the issue is of paramount importance, not only to families struggling to make ends meet, and recent college graduates entering a bleak marketplace for their skills and talents, but also to our country's ability to maintain its position as the greatest the world has ever known. This is something the current administration seems unwilling not only to address, but even acknowledge in the most basic terms. I think it's very close to a tragedy, and I promise that when I'm president the difference you see will be stark.

So, how best to deal with the problem? How best to generate the jobs countless people are clamoring for? Well, I believe, as I'm certain so many others do, that part of the issue is not that there aren't jobs. Of course there are jobs, and plenty of them. No, the problem is that so many are taken by homos. That's right, at this very moment, a person with a so-called alternative lifestyle is sitting at a desk, or working construction, or standing on an assembly line. Gay? I'd say they're probably giddy!

These jobs -- some good-paying, some maybe a little less, but all of them important -- are right there right now. As your president I promise I will work tirelessly to see that they are filled. No more do I want families to have to choose between paying the electric bill and gas for the car. No more do I want little boys and girls to wake up on Christmas morning believing they must have been bad because otherwise Santa would've left them a toy. No more do I want the deviant and the disgusting to laugh all the way to the bank.

There's just one thing I need from you. I need a job, too. I need the job of president of the United States. I need it so that I can help return Americans to work and America to prosperity.

I'm Rick Santorum, and I approve, endorse, and heartily stand behind... Let me put that another way. I'm Rick Santorum and I believe in this message. As I'm hoping so very many of you do, too.

 

[Pardalis]

Santorum is not advocating violence.

His predjudice is because he is being ignorant, and has had a lack of exposure to homosexual people. It's not based on hate like the KKK is.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

I think this is where you're missing the point. Randfan isn't saying that Santorum is like the KKK in all ways but rather in the very specific way he laid out. Violent isn't the only way someone can be wrong. Violence isn't the only reason to speak out against a group or person advocating other bad ideas. Someone can be a peaceful, family loving man and still advance ideas as wrong and hateful as the KKK. The KKK isn't wrong only because they are violent.

In the hateful and wrong policy Santorum advocates, he is my enemy. He made himself my enemy, and I made myself his enemy in that regard. 'Enemy' doesn't always have to be an absolute status.

I'd like to point out that not all members of the KKK resort to violence against minorities (and/or homosexuals). There are other means of disenfranchising minorities that don't require actual violence.

I'd also like to point out that while today's KKK hardly acts in violent manners (because they get charged with hate crimes when caught), so also do the anti-homosexuals act in non-violent manners. Both subsections of society have in the past been known to use violent manners.

I believe comparing the KKK to anti-homosexuals (when it comes to these two specific beliefs and their manners of dealing with these beliefs/peoples) is quite apt.

 

[Ladewig]

I didn't say there shouldn't be any debate. Calling people "idiots" and "bigots" is not debating, it's mudslinging.

If your definition of bigotry does not encompass people who publicly conflate homosexuality and bestiality, then your definition of the word is very different from mine.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

Santorum is not advocating violence.

His predjudice is because he is being ignorant, and has had a lack of exposure to homosexual people.

This is no excuse.

I've had no exposure to actual Iranians. Does that mean it's acceptable for me to bigoted toward them? What about if it's people from, say, Michigan?