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JFK Conspiracy Theories: It Never Ends

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How embarrassing for you to post that dishonest quote mine again, even after I said this:



So just keep being dishonest; it really makes your case.

Gee. Robert Prey being dishonest? But isn't that what he just accused Walter of? Robert, why did you snip of vital context giving lines of the text discussed here? Was it not dishonest to represent the lack of prints as a failure to search for prints when those few extra words make it clear there WAS a lifting of prints that directly contradicts your claims?

Why should we offer any credence to your claims that others are dishonest if you are unable to show a single fibre of honesty yourself and at least admit the error?
 
How embarrassing for you to post that dishonest quote mine again, even after I said this:

So just keep being dishonest; it really makes your case.

Here's another example of Robert's quote mining.

"Marina Oswald said that by the time she met him in March, 1961 he spoke the language well enough so that at first she thought he was from one of the Baltic areas of her country". P. 257, Warren Report

The unedited quote from the Warren Report:

Marina Oswald said that by the time she met him in March 1961 he spoke the language well enough so that at first she thought he was from one of the Baltic areas of her country, because of his accent.


Notice how he left off the bolded part. There are many more examples of this type of dishonestly from Robert on this thread.

He was trying to prove his assertion that his hero Lee Harvey Oswald was a undercover agent for American intelligence who wowed the Ruskies with his fluent Russian that he learned at a U.S. government language school.

In reality, Oswald's Russian was inadequate even after living for several years in the Soviet Union. Marina thought he was from the Baltic because of his poor Russian.

In one of her interviews with Gerald Posner, Marina said she did not know Oswald was an American when she first met him and thought he might be from the Baltic because "they speak with accents" and "they don't speak Russian very well." (Posner: pp. 64-65)

Even after living in Russia for a few years Oswald's language skills were still poor as Oswald himself recorded himself in his diary. If he went to a U.S. language school for intelligence agents he was a lousy student. All the available evidence indicates that, to the contrary, that Oswald's Russian was self-taught.
 
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Notice how he left off the bolded part. There are many more examples of this type of dishonestly from Robert on this thread.

He was trying to prove his assertion that his hero Lee Harvey Oswald was a undercover agent for American intelligence who wowed the Ruskies with his fluent Russian that he learned at a U.S. government language school.

In reality, Oswald's Russian was inadequate even after living for several years in the Soviet Union. Marina thought he was from the Baltic because of his poor Russian.

In one of her interviews with Gerald Posner, Marina said she did not know Oswald was an American when she first met him and thought he might be from the Baltic because "they speak with accents" and "they don't speak Russian very well." (Posner: pp. 64-65)

Even after living in Russia for a few years Oswald's language skills were still poor as Oswald himself recorded himself in his diary. If he went to a U.S. language school for intelligence agents he was a lousy student. All the available evidence indicates that, to the contrary, that Oswald's Russian was self-taught.

What are the odds Robert never, ever addresses this issue? :D
 
What are the odds Robert never, ever addresses this issue? :D

He's just going to keep repeating variations of this.

The only unimpeachable, un-alterable, un-forged "material" evidence we have are the observations of the Parkland Medical Personnel and other first hand witnesses. It is their unalterable, un-impeachable material evidence that impeaches what you claim to see or not see in the Z film.

Robert claimed to see Jackie Kennedy picking up a microscopic piece of JFK's brain from the trunk of the presidential limousine in the Z film. That was visible but the gaping exit wound on the back of JFK's heard which must be there if his theory of a head shot from the front is correct is oddly invisible. That this contradiction reeks of total hypocrisy on his part seems not to bother him in the least.
 
More Quote Mining From Robert

You hadn't answered a single one of mine.

No, that doesn't prove your bare assertion that the Warren Commission Report is a whitewash. Try again.

OK. Here's another (there are so many):

"The public must be satisfied that Oswald was the assassin; that he did not have confederates who are still at large; and that the evidence was such that he would have been convicted at trial."
Nov. 25, 1963
Attorney General Nicholas Katzenbach

Sound like an open minded search for the truth?

Robert probably c&p'ed the quote from a conspiracy site without checking it. Thanks to Dave Rogers for showing it was quoted out of context. (My bolding, Robert's cherry-picked quote highlighted in red by Dave.)

Let's look at the whole memo, shall we?

It is important that all of the facts surrounding President Kennedy's Assassination be made public in a way which will satisfy people in the United States and abroad that all the facts have been told and that a statement to this effect be made now.

1. The public must be satisfied that Oswald was the assassin; that he did not have confederates who are still at large; and that the evidence was such that he would have been convicted at trial.

2. Speculation about Oswald's motivation ought to be cut off, and we should have some basis for rebutting thought that this was a Communist conspiracy or (as the Iron Curtain press is saying) a right-wing conspiracy to blame it on the Communists. Unfortunately the facts on Oswald seem about too pat-- too obvious (Marxist, Cuba, Russian wife, etc.). The Dallas police have put out statements on the Communist conspiracy theory, and it was they who were in charge when he was shot and thus silenced.

3. The matter has been handled thus far with neither dignity nor conviction. Facts have been mixed with rumour and speculation. We can scarcely let the world see us totally in the image of the Dallas police when our President is murdered.

I think this objective may be satisfied by making public as soon as possible a complete and thorough FBI report on Oswald and the assassination. This may run into the difficulty of pointing to inconsistencies between this report and statements by Dallas police officials. But the reputation of the Bureau is such that it may do the whole job. The only other step would be the appointment of a Presidential Commission of unimpeachable personnel to review and examine the evidence and announce its conclusions. This has both advantages and disadvantages. It think it can await publication of the FBI report and public reaction to it here and abroad.

I think, however, that a statement that all the facts will be made public property in an orderly and responsible way should be made now. We need something to head off public speculation or Congressional hearings of the wrong sort.

Katzenbach is clearly saying here that the facts do not support the conspiracy theory, and that the facts should be released in full so as to end speculation when the true identity of the sole assassin is already known. It only looks like a whitewash if you start from the presumption that there was a conspiracy; discard that starting assumption, and it's simply a classic example of the mistaken belief that people who start conspiracy theories are capable of responding to reasoned rebuttal of those theories, a belief that few people seem to retain any more.

And, of course, one might wonder what this has to do with the Warren Commission, given that it was written before the Warren Commission existed by someone who wasn't a member of the Warren Commission.
 
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Perhaps we should highlight the line about all facts to be made public. An odd line for somebody to write in a memo apparently ordering a whitewash and cover up.

That Robert insists everyone else is dishonest while misrepresenting such documents is bitterly hilarious.
 
Perhaps we should highlight the line about all facts to be made public. An odd line for somebody to write in a memo apparently ordering a whitewash and cover up.

That Robert insists everyone else is dishonest while misrepresenting such documents is bitterly hilarious.

Robert is probably copying his cherry-picked quotes from conspiracy web sites without bothering to vet them. That the quotes are out of context and dishonest doesn't seem to concern him. But then, from his point of view, why should it? That his confirmation bias is reaffirmed is apparently good enough.
 
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Robert probably c&p'ed the quote from a conspiracy site without checking it. Thanks to Dave Rogers for showing it was quoted out of context. (My bolding, Robert's cherry-picked quote highlighted in red by Dave.)


So Katzenbach knew all about the facts before any investigation. Sounds like the Queen of Hearts.The full in context quote is even more incriminating of a planned government cover-up.
 
He's just going to keep repeating variations of this.



Robert claimed to see Jackie Kennedy picking up a microscopic piece of JFK's brain from the trunk of the presidential limousine in the Z film. That was visible but the gaping exit wound on the back of JFK's heard which must be there if his theory of a head shot from the front is correct is oddly invisible. That this contradiction reeks of total hypocrisy on his part seems not to bother him in the least.

The veracity of what you see or don't see in the Z film is confirmed or debunked by the condition of the wounds as seen by first hand medical witnesses at Parkland. Unlike the Z film, those observations are not subject to mis-interpretation, alteration or distortion.
 
Same Old, Same Old

The veracity of what you see or don't see in the Z film is confirmed or debunked by the condition of the wounds as seen by first hand medical witnesses at Parkland. Unlike the Z film, those observations are not subject to mis-interpretation, alteration or distortion.

I said he's just going to repeat variations of the above statement and he counters me by repeating himself. He must need to convince himself since he not convincing us. Some of the previous versions:

Zapruder never viewed the back of the President's Head. Neither did you. But the Parkland doctors did.

The Z film is hardly "tangible": evidence. Nor is it fraud proof. The Best Evidence is the condition of the wounds of the fatal shot to the head, observed and described by the doctors and attendants at Parkland.

Attempts to divert the subject from the statements of witnesses on the scene at Parkland, to varying interpretations of the Z film, are useless. I do not use the Z film to prove conspiracy. I cite the 20 or so witnesses at Parkland. Deal with that, if you can.

The Z film is all open to interpretation which is why you prefer to discuss it as opposed to that which is not open to interpretation, namely, the contemporaneous observations of the Doctors, Nurses and Attendants at Parkland. That you cannot mis-interpret.

The Parkland witnesses got to actually see the evidence before it was re-created and then hidden.

I see a shot from the front blowing out his head producing a predictable jet effect spray of blood, brain and tissue. You see only what you want to see. I also see Jackie turning around to the trunk to try to retrieve a chunk of the JFK's brain blown away from the back of his head. But it's all subject to interpretation, which is why my proof of a second shooter lies in the un-assailable statements of the Parkland Personnel, not the Z film.

The Z film is a rorschach test. It can mean whatever you want it to mean. Perhaps it's a vagina.

The Z film is a real problem for Robert but maybe if he recites his mantra enough times it will go away.
 
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I said he's just going to repeat variations of the above statement and he counters me by repeating himself. He must need to convince himself since he not convincing us. Some of the previous versions





The z film, poloroids, and other photos of agent hill on the back of the car. All discrediting Roberts claims.

If agent hill claimed what Robert says he claimed, why was he in so many staged photos that are "wrong"?


Or maybe all the evidence proves there was no massive exit wound to the back of the head.
 
Robert In Wonderland

So Katzenbach knew all about the facts before any investigation. Sounds like the Queen of Hearts.The full in context quote is even more incriminating of a planned government cover-up.

I think you mean the White Queen here, Robert.

The White Queen lives backwards in time, due to the fact that she lives through the eponymous looking glass. Her behaviour is odd to Alice. She offers Alice "jam to-morrow and jam yesterday - but never jam to-day." She screams in pain until, rather than because, she pricks her thumb on her brooch, and tells Alice of the King's messenger who has been imprisoned for a crime he will later be tried for and perhaps (but not definitely) commit in the end. The White Queen, aside from telling Alice things that she finds difficult to believe (one being that she is just over 101 years old) says that in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" and counsels Alice to practice the same skill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Queen_(Through_the_Looking-Glass

Does this remind you anyone we know? It is you who are asking us to go through the looking glass, Robert, not Katzenbach.
 
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For Anyone Who Is Not Robert

Re Katzenbach's memo to LBJ aide Bill Moyers. Katzenbach testified about this to the HSCA in the late 1970's.

Mr. DODD - You say then, I should quote--in fact, Mr. Chairman, I would ask unanimous consent that this memorandum, if it is not already admitted into evidence, be admitted now...

I think all of it should be there. You say in the first paragraph: It is important that all of the facts surrounding President Kennedy's Assassination be made public in a way which will satisfy people in the United States and abroad all that the facts have been told and a statement to this effect be made now. I think that is fine, but still I am perplexed, absolutely perplexed, on why it was in the public interest to prove that Oswald was the one, and that as reflected in the next sentence, did not have confederates who were still at large. Why was it so important to prove that 3 days after the assassination?

Mr. KATZENBACH - Because for the very simple reason, if that was not a fact, and all the facts were not on the table, then it seemed to me that nobody was going to be satisfied, and I thought that the public was entitled--if there was a conspiracy, then we ought to say there was a conspiracy. If there were confederates at large, it ought to be said there were confederates at large. I knew then already that Oswald had been in Russia, Oswald had been in Mexico. Now, if you are going to conclude, as the Bureau was concluding that this was not part of a conspiracy, that there were no confederates, then you had to make that case, with all of the facts, absolutely persuasive. If you didn't reveal these facts, somebody else was going to reveal them. Now, if there was a conspiracy, there was a conspiracy, and you put those facts out. But if you were persuaded Oswald was a lone killer, you had better put all of the facts out and you better not cover up anything, and you better say now all of the facts are going to be made public. That was the advice I was giving Moyers and that was the advice I was giving the President and that was the motivation for the Warren Commission. I don't think this is artistically phrased. Perhaps you have never written anything that you would like to write better afterwards, Congressman, but I have.

Mr. DODD - You won't get me to say that.

Mr. KATZENBACH - But I think if you take that, take the other paragraphs of it, take other things I was quoted as saying, other things I said, that there is a consistent view on my part.

Mr. DODD - I didn't want to pull this out of context. I want to make sure it is all in there. In fairness to you, it should all be in there.

Mr. KATZENBACH - I was very conscious of those facts which were going to be seized upon. Is this a Russian conspiracy? And I was very conscious, perhaps as a little bit of a history buff, that nobody ever put to bed satisfactorily the assassination of Abraham Lincoln.

Mr. DODD - You seemed in the next paragraph--I quote you again here--you say: Unfortunately the facts on Oswald seem about too pat--too obvious (Marxist, Cuba, Russian wife, et cetera). The Dallas police have put out statements on the Communist conspiracy theory and it was they who were in charge when he was shot and thus silenced. Am I off base there in detecting a feeling that you had on November 25, 1963, that there was something more to this, that you felt, in fact, whether intuitively or based on other information, that this guy had been set up, Oswald was not alone? I sense that in that paragraph, reading it word for word, and carefully, that you had some thoughts running through your mind, and you were expressing them to Bill Moyers in those words.

Mr. KATZENBACH - I don't think I had a view one way or the other, other than what I was being told the FBI investigation had, but I was saying you have got a lot of facts here, if you say Oswald was the lone killer, he wasn't in conspiracy with anyone, had nothing to do with any foreign government, you have got a lot of awkward facts that you are going to have to explain, and you had better explain them satisfactorily You had better put it all out on the table.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/hscakatz.htm
 
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The veracity of what you see or don't see in the Z film is confirmed or debunked by the condition of the wounds as seen by first hand medical witnesses at Parkland. Unlike the Z film, those observations are not subject to mis-interpretation, alteration or distortion.

You're just making people laugh harder at the Loon and Whacktard techniques you're showing us.
 
The veracity of what you see or don't see in the Z film is confirmed or debunked by the condition of the wounds as seen by first hand medical witnesses at Parkland. Unlike the Z film, those observations are not subject to mis-interpretation, alteration or distortion.

The Parkland testemony is rendered innacurate by the filmed footage. It is rendered innacurate by the autopys, the photogrpahic record and the body of JFK himself.

Where is the material evidence to support the statements Robert?
 
You're just making people laugh harder at the Loon and Whacktard techniques you're showing us.

He'll cling to his mantra about the Parkland witnesses and the unreliability of the Z film. He'll keep repeating it. He has nothing else left. He's finished.
 
He'll cling to his mantra about the Parkland witnesses and the unreliability of the Z film. He'll keep repeating it. He has nothing else left. He's finished.

Finished making sense? Yes, long ago.
Finished offering anything that might be mistaken as a compelling argument? He never bothered.
Finished offering evidence? I have yet to see any that was not of the "he said she said" variety.

Finished shooting himself in the foot? Not by a long shot.
 
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