Merged So there was melted steel

I heard (I'm not sure it was the same video) a firefighter say everything was "smashed to atoms". I'm fairly sure this guy is not worried about his "reputation" over this statement.

:rolleyes:

These guys are no more worried about their "reputation" than when Brian Williams said it got as hot as the inner-​earth. Or when Voosanger said, (commenting on the antenna) “It was the piece that collapsed onto everything else, and I think it must have fallen far enough away from the internal fires within the center of the Towers that it was not melted into some unrecognizable fused mass.”

Its amazing how easy the standard of proof falls. This was trolled better years ago. :rolleyes:
 
I think the vast majority of twoofers of yesteryear are fully aware of the absurdity of their claims.

I think that is why most have disappeared! Take a look at the ghost town, that was LCF! They even dropped the "this many post in last 24 hour" tag at the bottom. Too embarrassing! Hell, even Do Over ran away!

The only die hard twoofer left (who incidentally is the #1 twoofer poster on this site)likes to whine to the mods, about people who ask him a question, on his nonsense!

Way...too funny!
 
Read my response to A W Smith.

And I totally disagree with your assessment that a professional architect working for the NYC Port Authority, when asked on camera for his professional opinion about a specific WTC debris specimen, an opinion he knows will be heard by a National TV audience, would give a statement that was intended as an "off handed remark."

You refer my attitude towards research incompetence as bias, lacking objectivity, belief, and denial... when in reality it's all been criticism towards invalid conclusions drawn from a lack of competent studies.

As I've said before, you've (NOT Voorsanger) shown a lack of competence in even recognizing that your research methodology is incompetent which makes any reasonable discussion either difficult or nearly impossible. Case in point you believe cursory remarks are somehow superior to the very sort of analysis that you kept pushing me to show from someone like him who was able to see the samples up close. Up-close assessments which in themselves provided details that make it blisteringly obvious the assessment you made of the cursory statements was absolutely inaccurate. His comment may have contained the words "molten steel"; that doesn't mean it was a researched remark, nor does it indicate he's an utter fool... that's why you look for additional context. But most people know the difference from a serious, literal remark versus something that was remarked with the intent of describing visual properties through simile or metaphor.

Shoddy research will receive criticism that is appropriate... but you still view my assessment as bias... then view it however you want, as I'm very certain you will.
 
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"the quotes were from workers who saw and handled the compacted floors on site, 6 and 8 foot stacks, So how do you suppose they extracted it? and reduced its size to move it? That's right, Torches, Therefore you would expect to see torched off portions of steel where it was separated, There is no mention of them being molten while they were in place. We have seen truthers try to jump to the same conspiracy conclusion before with the cut columns.

Nothing new here, Just more trolling by conspiradroids trying to wedge a conspiracy where there isn't. My three witnesses who saw the object in place debunk your one who saw it torched and removed off site. , You got to know when to fold em MM."

Your argument is incredibly lame A W Smith.

wtcdebris2abpc190018.jpg


picture3bu.jpg


Cutting torch slag is the best hand you can play?

Like I said, that is pretty lame, and desperate.

MM
 
Your argument is incredibly lame A W Smith.

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/159/wtcdebris2abpc190018.jpg

http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/8659/picture3bu.jpg

Cutting torch slag is the best hand you can play?

Like I said, that is pretty lame, and desperate.

MM
With all this evidence why have you failed to make progress past the fact you have delusions on 911? There is no melted steel in your photos, why is that? Do you have point beside 10 years of failure pushing crazy ideas on 911? Did you take the 7th grade song to heart?.. "Just what makes that little old ant...

When will you apply for the Pulitzer?
 
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I see perfectly intact rebar.

Keep posting them pics MM. Everytime you do you contradict yourself more and more.


Also - why the total reluctance to answer the simple question "why would it matter"?

It can't be because I've harmed your delicate sensibilities, I'm not the only one asking.

Is it because when you think about it, you realize molten steel means nothing? That if you acknowledge that, it would mean that you were mistaken, and that's just not something you can emotionally handle?

That's what I think. I think you know for a fact that nothing you say is the truth, but you do it anyway. Admitting it would garner a bit of respect.
 
Your belief shows a total lack of objectivity and a strong personal bias.

MM

No that's you.

These constant attempts to project your own failings onto everyone else, are getting old. You do it way to much for it not to be totally obvious.

I guess you keep forgetting that you are the one that came here to preach your beliefs to us, not the other way around :rolleyes:
 
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Also - why the total reluctance to answer the simple question "why would it matter"?
<snip>
Is it because when you think about it, you realize molten steel means nothing? That if you acknowledge that, it would mean that you were mistaken, and that's just not something you can emotionally handle?

It deals with the arguer's understanding of evidence and that it doesn't really discriminate suspects based on past history, personality, or circumstances. Although such things would certainly raise doubts or suspicion, there are cases where the evidence subjectively, and definitively shows they had nothing to do with the actual "crime."

The OP opens up to the unlikelihood that there really was melted steel found in the piles... and that "thermxte" was indeed present. There can be thousands of pounds of it coating girders and the ground nearby for that matter. Despite all of those assumptions, if the structure failed through creep induced by the fires at the impact regions and a progressive failure of the structure, rather than clear cutting of the structure at strategic points.... well even thermite's presence there wouldn't lead to a conclusion supporting controlled demolition...

But knowing the basics of how object evidence is treated... well you get the point... it's not a skill I've seen demonstrated by the conspiracy movement...
 
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Gonna just have to post this to every page, since MM seems to really dislike it.

fire "Melting steel beams":
https://www.google.com/search?pz=1&...&tbs=cdr:1,cd_min:1900,cd_max:2000&authuser=0

"fire "Melted steel girders"
https://www.google.com/search?pz=1&...=754&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&cad=b

You can find countless examples if you alter the search criteria.


Here are just a few examples: (Note also how many of these talk about "explosions" in the fires.)



"The heat of the fire that erupted when the tanker crashed melted the heavy steel girders supporting the overpass, causing it to sag about 7 feet toward"
-
Bridge repair rushed
Connecticut Post - NewsBank - Mar 27, 2004


A fire in a wrecked chemical truck Friday caused an estimated million damage by melting bridge girders
-
Truck Fire Burns Hole In Bridge .
Youngstown Vindicator - Dec 3, 1977


The massive six-alarm blaze caused by a construction accident, melted steel girders on nearby construction projects
-
Massive Fire Engulfs Several Blocks .
Boca Raton News -May 20, 2000



"PITTSBURGH - A spectacular general alarm fire, its heat so intense that it melted steel girders, has destroyed a vacant warehouse in the city's Strip"
-
Spectacular Fire .
Gettysburg Times Aug 9, 1975



"The fire, fueled by the undersea oil and gas the crewmen worked each day to harness, burned so hot it melted the steel girders. First the derrick collapsed"
-
DISASTERS STRIKE WORLDS APART OIL RIG
Miami Herald - July 8, 1988
 
Your argument is incredibly lame A W Smith.

[snip]

Cutting torch slag is the best hand you can play?

Like I said, that is pretty lame, and desperate.

MM

Wrong again. Lame and desperate is 911 cult kooks continually trying to claim those pics prove molten steel when they clearly do not.

Ignoring the rebar and paper sticking out, makes your argument incredibly lame. Clearly you are letting conspiracy websites do your thinking for you.
 
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a desperate MM backed against the wall cannot refute but project "lame" like a child

Your argument is incredibly lame A W Smith.

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/159/wtcdebris2abpc190018.jpg

http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/8659/picture3bu.jpg

Cutting torch slag is the best hand you can play?

Like I said, that is pretty lame, and desperate.

MM
project much MM? Go ahead. Search for the word "molten",, surprise me. I got you beat three to zero
http://www.amazon.com/City-Sky-World-Trade-Center/dp/0805074287#reader_0805074287
 
"Read my response to A W Smith.

And I totally disagree with your assessment that a professional architect working for the NYC Port Authority, when asked on camera for his professional opinion about a specific WTC debris specimen, an opinion he knows will be heard by a National TV audience, would give a statement that was intended as an "off handed remark."

Your belief shows a total lack of objectivity and a strong personal bias."
"You refer my attitude towards research incompetence as bias, lacking objectivity, belief, and denial... when in reality it's all been criticism towards invalid conclusions drawn from a lack of competent studies.

As I've said before, you've (NOT Voorsanger) shown a lack of competence in even recognizing that your research methodology is incompetent which makes any reasonable discussion either difficult or nearly impossible. Case in point you believe cursory remarks are somehow superior to the very sort of analysis that you kept pushing me to show from someone like him who was able to see the samples up close. Up-close assessments which in themselves provided details that make it blisteringly obvious the assessment you made of the cursory statements was absolutely inaccurate. His comment may have contained the words "molten steel"; that doesn't mean it was a researched remark, nor does it indicate he's an utter fool... that's why you look for additional context. But most people know the difference from a serious, literal remark versus something that was remarked with the intent of describing visual properties through simile or metaphor.

Shoddy research will receive criticism that is appropriate... but you still view my assessment as bias... then view it however you want, as I'm very certain you will."

No.

It is your attitude to a succinctly stated professional opinion as being effectively meaningless, that I find to be biased, lacking in objectivity, adherence to a preconceived belief, and abject denial.

And as for all that great research of yours that you keep trumpeting, you have not made a single discovery that would suggest that Bart Voorsanger gave his professional opinion offhandedly.

You have no proof that his opinion was cursory. That in itself is clear evidence of your lack of objectivity, bias and denial.

And then you have the gall to raise the issue of close up examination.

A close up examination which you could only do staring at a photo image on your pc.

I reasonably requested that if you wanted to debunk his professional opinion, than all you had to do was find a comparable professional who had also done a close-up examination of that WTC debris specimen.

Voorsanger was clearly in position to do the close-up examination he based his professional opinion on.

You yourself state that close-up examinations provide blisteringly obvious details, but again, your prejudiced belief reveals its ugly head in your unfounded belief that his evaluation was cursory and absolutely inaccurate. Your lack of professional discipline and rationality, does nothing more than further reveal the extent of your bias and denial.

His comment stated opinion that the WTC debris sample contained molten steel can only mean one thing, no matter how many ways you attempt to spin it.

I have edited many documentaries and it is my experience that when a professional is speaking to the camera they are particularly careful about the words they choose. They are quite conscious of the permanent record that is being made from their statements and the potentially vast public and professional audience that will be hearing them.

Your whole approach to avoiding the obvious, that you are wrong and unable to ever admit it, is to try and divert attention away from this inability to prove your point.

Instead you are attempting to re-direct one professional's stated on site opinion into a requirement for a major in depth research project.

MM
 
regretheerror.com


For crying out loud, mistakes happen so frequently that there's a website dedicated to it.

Yet we're supposed to take as gospel what an Architect says about metallurgy.

Is this a joke?
 
No.

It is your attitude to a succinctly stated professional opinion as being effectively meaningless, that I find to be biased, lacking in objectivity, adherence to a preconceived belief, and abject denial.

And as for all that great research of yours that you keep trumpeting, you have not made a single discovery that would suggest that Bart Voorsanger gave his professional opinion offhandedly.

You have no proof that his opinion was cursory. That in itself is clear evidence of your lack of objectivity, bias and denial.

And then you have the gall to raise the issue of close up examination.

A close up examination which you could only do staring at a photo image on your pc.

I reasonably requested that if you wanted to debunk his professional opinion, than all you had to do was find a comparable professional who had also done a close-up examination of that WTC debris specimen.

Voorsanger was clearly in position to do the close-up examination he based his professional opinion on.

You yourself state that close-up examinations provide blisteringly obvious details, but again, your prejudiced belief reveals its ugly head in your unfounded belief that his evaluation was cursory and absolutely inaccurate. Your lack of professional discipline and rationality, does nothing more than further reveal the extent of your bias and denial.

His comment stated opinion that the WTC debris sample contained molten steel can only mean one thing, no matter how many ways you attempt to spin it.

I have edited many documentaries and it is my experience that when a professional is speaking to the camera they are particularly careful about the words they choose. They are quite conscious of the permanent record that is being made from their statements and the potentially vast public and professional audience that will be hearing them.

Your whole approach to avoiding the obvious, that you are wrong and unable to ever admit it, is to try and divert attention away from this inability to prove your point.

Instead you are attempting to re-direct one professional's stated on site opinion into a requirement for a major in depth research project.

MM
And after all these words you still can't explain how if this was true it would point at controlled (intentional) demolition. Funny how that is.

:rolleyes:
 
MM:

I just looked for Bart Vansanger on the AE 9/11 list. I didn't see it. Why is this? Maybe you should contact him so he can sign ASAP. He does support what you're saying, right?

:rolleyes:
 

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