Occupy Wall Street better defend its identity

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If you're an American, chances are you're in the global top 1%. Even a poor American lives like a king compared to people in Haiti, Sierra Leone or Somalia. Occupy Walltards are overwhelmingly middle class. Therefore, shouldn't they be asking for more of their income be creamed off and redistributed to the poor of those countries? There's too much of a gap between the average american and the average Hatian. It's not fair.
 
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just because we are not camped out in a park, does not mean we do not care.
this movement has opened the eyes of many millions.

if you are not pissed off, you are not paying attention,.
abysmally far right-wing sheeple are sooo bizarre.

So many delusions packed into one little post, your left wing cult must be so proud.
 
I'd actually revised this later to omit #4. It's apparent to me now that the Occupy people have no interest in making a political statement the way the Tea Party did.

...will not read the rest of your response given how you start here...

What political statement, pray tell?
 
South Koreans outperform American students because they work harder and avoid drugs.

And you happen to live in South Korea?

How are you defining poverty? Absolute or relative poverty? Real poverty like people in Sierra Leone or Haiti experience doesn't exist in the West.

Poverty as in poor. I used to live within the poverty line. We're talking $8000/year or less.

Yet you're sitting around in parks wasting their time.

I always love conservative knee-jerk arguments. Especially when discussing "wasting time". From personal experience, it's typically conservative right-wingers who like to post to this forum as well as other political forums including Free Republic, Hannitydotcom, Andrew Brietbart's Twitter feed, and Fox News's comment section to name a few. Yes! Gee! I don't know, let's compare the two - sitting in a park along with other like-minded individuals in an attempt to protest fairness and accountability in our economic system or sitting behind a computer all day complaining about these people... hmmm?


So? People in prison deserve to be there.

Boy, I'm glad you have made the conclusion all by yourself. Authority often?

Not all people in prison deserve to be there especially under some of the current drug laws that happen to land people several years in prison for the simple act of smoking marijuana or snorting heroin! Many laws like this should be reevaluated and treated as health issues and not necessarily legal issues. This could alleviate part of the prison overcrowding situation in most prisons...

...however...

...there is also this whole inconvenience known as 6.5 billion people on this planet and over 300 million people living in the United States alone. Do the math, and it is obvious that the more of a concentration of people you have, the more of a concentration of people you will have in prison.
 
I've got no problem with protests. But there's no reason protesters need to break the law in order to protest. There's no reason protesters need to camp overnight on property they aren't allowed to camp on. There's no reason protesters need to create filthy, disease-ridden messes wherever they go. The tea party didn't.

WOW. This is a discussion point I see everywhere and it's an absolute red herring.

"The tea party did not leave their trash behind" --- okay, but what did they accomplish?
 
Not all people in prison deserve to be there especially under some of the current drug laws that happen to land people several years in prison for the simple act of smoking marijuana or snorting heroin!

Several years for smoking a joint? Bullcrap.
 
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And you have lived in those places?

I have. Somalia (a year), India (a year), Pakistan 2 years), central china (three years). I have also worked in Sierra Leone, thailand and vietnam. (those were short term jobs though)

The poor americans are still better than the AVERAGE person on the streets there.
 
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WOW. This is a discussion point I see everywhere and it's an absolute red herring.

"The tea party did not leave their trash behind" --- okay, but what did they accomplish?

Unless you're trying to argue that making a complete mess is an integral part of their strategy, you really have no point. I doubt that's what you're saying, but who knows....
 
Several years for smoking a joint? Bullcrap.

Oh no... he is right with certain caveats. Such as if the person lives in a 3 strikes state and already has a record, is on probation or parole, or if he is sitting on several hundred pounds of the stuff while smoking his joint.
 
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4) Some of the core issues addressed by the tea party share a common root with OWS but you are wrong in thinking that that OWS wants to put forth a candidate. Although many individual people within OWS support specific politicians (Elizabeth Warren, for example) the OWS movement does not want to put a specific face to their movement. It would sort of defeat the purpose.

How so? The way I see it, if the movement had a face, all those protests about this and that loudmouth jerk not being a 'real' OWSer just might suddenly gain some traction. I don't think it would defeat the purpose -- instead it might give the movement purpose, which it right now seems to be sorely missing.
 
Milwaukee police chief shows the world how to deal with Occutards. Not with nightsticks or tear gas, but with apathy.

http://www.wisn.com/news/29798712/detail.html

Worked like a charm.

Chief Ed Flynn spoke to the demonstrators on the bridge, saying his officers were going to protect the neighborhood.

"I see a working class neighborhood that has been disrupted by people who couldn’t care less about the people who actually live here," Flynn said. "We're going to let them play demonstration games for a while."

I love this guy.
 
I'd actually revised this later to omit #4. It's apparent to me now that the Occupy people have no interest in making a political statement the way the Tea Party did.

I think it's a mistake to appeal to the public on the basis of income inequality but to really mean something else. Income inequality is a tangible that a lot of people can relate to because almost everyone gets a regular paycheque and buys goods and services.

As a Canadian essentially doing an American's work, the part of the Occupy movement that scares the crap out of me is the anti-foreign, anti-outsourcing, and anti-free-trade aspects of it. That kind of talk has even been coming from US presidential candidates, who often talk about erecting punitive tariffs to "protect" American jobs. It's coming from both Democrats and Republicans too. (Mind you, they usually mention China but everyone's in the way of the tariff shotgun.)

American voters and decision-makers have some tough options to weigh and most of these are way beyond things like a bank bailout or Citizens United. Those issues are essentially yesterday's news.

Something as simple as a reduction of unemployment by as little as one per cent to an acceptable level might get everyone's focus back on the meaningful issues. Think of it as a huge HR "bailout" and run the thing for about a year and see how it works. It could have a training component (although "free" training tends to have a high dropout rate).

I'll even buy more US bonds for my RRSP to help finance it.

The anti-foreign stuff, yeah. It's a tough one because it's not something that you can just sum up in a neat paragraph. We are a global economy, trying to pull back to American soil is simply impossible. Talking about protecting American Jobs is just the usual political BS. Financial insecurity tends to bring out a touch of xenophobia in the common man. Placing the blame on overseas job stealing is a neat way to avoid the problem.

At the same time, there's a feeling that corporations have been using the threat of foreign labor to stagnate wages or to trying to get Americans to work for third world wages.

In some cases it's true and that's really where the focus should be. As unemployment rises, so does worker exploitation - less perks, more part-time jobs, replacing pensions with 401ks. Employers know that people are desperate and take advantage of that, even when there is no threat of outsourcing. Walmart is leading the way on this. They have millions of employees, a large percentage of which are so underpaid that they are actually a burden on tax-payers because they are eligible for food-stamps and/or under-insured.

Which brings us to reducing unemployment. We desperately need to invest in our infrastructure. We could easily employee all those people who lost construction jobs when the housing market crashed. There's a ton of work out there, a 10 or even 20 year plan is not inconceivable. That would even allow high school students to opt for a trade school with the security of a job at the other end.

Then here we are at the sticking point - how do we pay for it?

(Yes, everything is way oversimplified. It's past 1 AM.)
 
"They Hate US For Our Freedoms"

UC Davis Chancellor Linda P.B. Katehi: Resign

"Join University of California at Davis, Assistant Professor Nathan Brown in calling for the resignation of UC Davis Chancellor Linda P.B. Kathei for her failure to protect UC Davis student's First Amendment right to assemble, or even their physical safety.

...

I write to you and to my colleagues for three reasons:

1) to express my outrage at the police brutality which occurred against students engaged in peaceful protest on the UC Davis campus today

2) to hold you accountable for this police brutality

3) to demand your immediate resignation

Today you ordered police onto our campus to clear student protesters from the quad. These were protesters who participated in a rally speaking out against tuition increases and police brutality on UC campuses on Tuesday—a rally that I organized, and which was endorsed by the Davis Faculty Association. These students attended that rally in response to a call for solidarity from students and faculty who were bludgeoned with batons, hospitalized, and arrested at UC Berkeley last week. In the highest tradition of non-violent civil disobedience, those protesters had linked arms and held their ground in defense of tents they set up beside Sproul Hall. In a gesture of solidarity with those students and faculty, and in solidarity with the national Occupy movement, students at UC Davis set up tents on the main quad. When you ordered police outfitted with riot helmets, brandishing batons and teargas guns to remove their tents today, those students sat down on the ground in a circle and linked arms to protect them.

What happened next?

Without any provocation whatsoever, other than the bodies of these students sitting where they were on the ground, with their arms linked, police pepper-sprayed students. Students remained on the ground, now writhing in pain, with their arms linked.

What happened next?

Police used batons to try to push the students apart. Those they could separate, they arrested, kneeling on their bodies and pushing their heads into the ground. Those they could not separate, they pepper-sprayed directly in the face, holding these students as they did so. When students covered their eyes with their clothing, police forced open their mouths and pepper-sprayed down their throats. Several of these students were hospitalized. Others are seriously injured. One of them, forty-five minutes after being pepper-sprayed down his throat, was still coughing up blood.

This is what happened. You are responsible for it.
"

Video and links to other documentation: 'Police officer pepper-sprays seated, non-violent students at UC Davis'

Police officer, UC Davis Police Lt. John Pike, walks down a line of those young people seated quietly on the ground in an act of nonviolent civil disobedience, and sprays them all with pepper spray at very close range. He is clearing a path for fellow officers to walk through and arrest more students, but it's as if he's dousing a row of bugs with insecticide:

 
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At the same time, there's a feeling that corporations have been using the threat of foreign labor to stagnate wages or to trying to get Americans to work for third world wages.
Welcome to the world of anyone working in an industry where illegal aliens are hired. Yet I don't see the OWS people demanding a crackdown on employers who hire illegal workers.

replacing pensions with 401ks.
Pensions virtually disappeared from the private sector 20 years ago, and for good reason. People are piss-poor at predicting the future (required to properly fund a pension) and the temptation to underfund them through overly optimistic investment returns is overwhelming. Few private sector pensions were fully funded, indeed most public sector pensions are also wildly underfunded. Illinois state worker pensions are underfunded to the tune of $80 billion, and pension payouts to retired workers comes not from the pension funds but from general revenues. Over 17% of Illinois' budget now goes directly to the pension checks of retired workers, and that number is expected to nearly double in the next decade. But while public pensions have tax revenue to tap, private pensions either go bust or pay a fraction of what was promised.

Pensions are a good idea in theory, but completely impractical in practice.
 
We could easily employee all those people who lost construction jobs when the housing market crashed.
Absolute nonsense. People who build roads and bridges are not the same people who build houses. Different companies, different unions, different tools, different equipment, different everything. And even then the numbers of housing construction jobs dwarfed those involved in infrastructure construction.
 
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