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JFK Conspiracy Theories: It Never Ends

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Robert Prey said:
No, it was a valid question based on your ridiculous assertions. Your running away from the question demonstrates your acknowledgment that you've engaged in ridiculous innuendo which you can't back up.

What is your single best piece of evidence for a bullet coming from the grassy knoll?

It's coming soon, oh ye of little faith. And if you are asking who NK worked for , that's a ridiculous question. Answer it yourself.
Well, no. The question was: "What is your single best piece of evidence for a bullet coming from the grassy knoll?" See? It's right above your non-answer. Care to have a shot at actually answering?
 
Not at all. Read the definition. All that is required is a "partnership" and not even an active one in the planning or execution.

Wow. In that case, I'm claiming that I deserve equal credit to the guy in the other office who ran a marathon for charity and raised a couple of thousand. After all, I knew he was thinking of doing something like it beforehand - I distinctly heard him say "I think I might run a marathon for charity some day" - even though he never told me that he actually was going to do it, or when and where he did it, so that makes me his partner.

At this point a normal person would say "Ah, I see what you mean. I've been a bit silly there, haven't I?" A conspiracy theorist, on the other hand, will come up with some bizarre mental gymnastics to pretend he wasn't saying what he just said, while at the same time proving that he did actually say it.

We're all waiting.

Dave
 
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Really, really off base. There are so many, true, some of them bogus. I will list them shortly in my final post entitled 'The Final Nail in the Lone Nutter's Coffin."


You haven't put any nails any coffins yet. I suppose this "final post" will allow you to declare victory and retreat, a wise decision on your part as you have been failing completely so far.

"The truth of this is that as long as there have been national figures there have been nutters who wish them dead, " Really? So anyone wishing to kill a leader is automatically a "nut"? Does that include Count Claus von Stauffenberg, who among many others tried to klll Hitler?


Are you seriously comparing the attempted assassinations of Hitler, a murderous dictator who was prosecuting a war ruinous to Germany, with the JFK assassination, the murder of an elected leader of a democratic society? :boggled:
 
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This worm is only a troll.
A waste of your time as a sincere member expecting sincerity in return.
 
I don't and won't get into that stuff because when you have to rely on "experts" it's one against the other. A lot of that stuff including acoustics, faked autopsy photos and x-rays, computer re-enactments, even finger prints can be ascribed as just so much 20th century witchcraft.

No, let's not rely on all this 20th century hard evidence stuff - it's the equivalent of witchcraft! Let's get back to eyewitnesses because we know that people can't lie or be mistaken! If it was good enough for the dark ages, it's good enough for Robert Prey!



*"The truth of this is that as long as there have been national figures there have been nutters who wish them dead, " Really? So anyone wishing to kill a leader is automatically a "nut"?
You're not very good at basic logic, are you?
 
That shady cabal includes the professional hit men of the Mafia who the US government were hired to work as a team with the CIA to kill Castro. Or didn't you know that?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1555830/CIA-hired-the-Mafia-to-kill-Fidel-Castro.html
Of course the CIA were doing grubby deals of this sort,then and now (ask the Iranians), but that doesn't prove that they used the mafia to assassinate the president, which would still be a really stupid way of going about killing someone you have access to behind closed doors every day. If I wanted to murder my wife I wouldn't hire an assassin from a known criminal fraternity to beat her to death while she was out shopping. Particularly, as I said (and you pointedly ignored) if I knew that my wife had a chronic illness that could cause her unexpected death in a number of neatly achieved ways that would create rather less suspicion.

Except that American Intelligence had a very thick file on the alleged suspect,
I'm sure they had thick files on a number of people, many of them living in Texas at the time. The Dallas police didn't, though. How, practically, do you imagine that their actions were co-ordinated? Without raising any suspicion among the rank and file that something rather odd was going on?

Don't get your point. That fact sort of lends itself to the conspiracy theory.
Really? The conspirators wish to silence their bogus assassin, who has been arrested. Do they a) arrange for an 'accidental death in custody' (manufactured fracas, faked suicide etc.) that, given the general antipathy to the victim, nobody is going to be bothered investigating particularly closely or b) employ a gangster to wait until he is in plain sight, on national television, and shoot him at point blank range. You seem to think b), and as with the death of the president himself the question is why? What would be the point of such an elaborate and risky exercise when there are easier ways to accomplish the task?

Really? So anyone wishing to kill a leader is automatically a "nut"? Does that include Count Claus von Stauffenberg, who among many others tried to klll Hitler?
Ne'er in my life have I seen such rank Godwinisation, combined with such clumsy missing of the point, which is that leaders are considerably more vulnerable than those who protect them would have you imagine. Sane or not, I doubt that an effective political assassin needs much more elaborate plotting skills than a moderately ambitious bank robber.

Von Stauffenberg, incidentally, was by no means intending to strike a great blow for freedom - he just thought Hitler was a grubby little oik who'd gone to the wrong sort of school and that he and his posh chums could run Germany rather more effectively. His success may actually have made matters worse - imagine what a sane Nazi state could have accomplished?

Ever hear of the word "Treason??"
The plan as laid out would not be treason, it would be rank insanity. And the question remains - why? Why kill Kennedy at all, when you have less dangerous ways of exerting pressure on him to achieve your political aims? And why do it using such a haphazard and complex methodology?
 
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Ok. Not even going to was quotes here. Gosh people other lone nutters have tried to kill some leaders means JFK can't have been? Maths and statistics don't work like that. Lone nutters are the most probable answer, and we have no evidence otherwise.


Next there is the Ruby "mystery". There are reasons somebody might want to off the killer of a popular president that don't require a conspiracy. There are reasons a mobster might want him dead that don't require the CIA. All the things people claim was Ruby controlinga conspiracy (knowing about fair play Cuba in a press conference etc) could as easily be a guy wanting to make sure the police had the right manbefore enacting personal justice. And. With out any evidence of a conspiracy why assume otherwise?


We have seen accussations, allegations, and speculation. None of which is evidence. I am fully prepared to be underwhelmed by a final nail. Shame it is being hammered in by a squeaky toy
 
*"The truth of this is that as long as there have been national figures there have been nutters who wish them dead, "

Really? So anyone wishing to kill a leader is automatically a "nut"? Does that include Count Claus von Stauffenberg, who among many others tried to klll Hitler?

CvS isn't a good example for you. We know he was part of a conspiracy, that had a plan. And even though the assassination failed, we can see the mechanism of how it was supposed to work. How was the JFK conspiracy supposed to work? What was the death of one politician going to change?
 
Is It Conspiracy Yet?

We have seen accussations, allegations, and speculation. None of which is evidence. I am fully prepared to be underwhelmed by a final nail. Shame it is being hammered in by a squeaky toy

I'm not holding by breath either. :D

All we have seen so far from Robert are long-debunked conspiracy canards presented as if the mere mention of phrases like "faked back-yard photos" or "Mauser rifle found in the TSBD" constitute verbal garlic and a crucifix held up to Count Dracula.

The singular intriguing item he's offered is the Odio Incident but he has failed to show how it ties in with any alleged conspiracy or frame up of Oswald.

He has repeatedly asked us to present evidence of Oswald's guilt while at the same time ignoring my post #53 where I give multiple items of evidence that Oswald was guilty.

He has also consistently refused to answer reasonable questions put to him.

So to sum up the accusations so far; there must have been a conspiracy, despite the "evidence" not matching the accusers own definition of a conspiracy, Then we have circular logic. The warren commission was a cover up, proven by being written by liars, but we know they were liars because of the commission.

Not very good. We are missing;
1) evidence of conspiracy
2) evidence the warren commission was confirmation biased.
3) evidence the commission lies.
4) evidence of the "actual" motives of the commission.
5) the name of the individual accused who "worked for LBJ"
6) evidence posters are allowed to ask one question or offer only one piece of evidence at the time.
7) evidence of a second shooter (as implied by the document RP quoted)

Other than all of that it is... well it isn't anything at the moment is it?

I was hoping number five was Jack Valenti. I could never stand that guy. :D
 
I'm not holding by breath either. :D

All we have seen so far from Robert are long-debunked conspiracy canards presented as if the mere mention of phrases like "faked back-yard photos" or "Mauser rifle found in the TSBD" constitute verbal garlic and a crucifix held up to Count Dracula.

The singular intriguing item he's offered is the Odio Incident but he has failed to show how it ties in with any alleged conspiracy or frame up of Oswald.

Unfortunately this seems to be the case. Which is a shame really. History is a two stranded rope. One twine is the record of the facts, the other the record of how those facts were percieved. Events and Society. Now I have no issue with (and actively encourage) the discussion on the different perceptions of events (e.g- a number of posters in this thread have in other discussions shown they have different views on the "character" of events like the Revolutionary War in America) but no matter how differently we view events, the facts do not change. We may understand better how or why events happened, but we do so based on facts.

There are a number of curious events in the JFK canon. Not all of them supported by facts. The trouble lies when the perception is mistaken for the fact. Stating the Warren Commission to be a white wash, or making statements about the assumed state of mind of an individual, is not evidence unless supported by actual facts. You may feel, or suspect, or assume there was a conspiracy, but that is not what history does. It either says "X believed it was a conspiracy because of Y" or it says "This evidnce proves X was part of a conspiracy with Y".

I freely admit JFK is not an area I can claim to be a buff on. I have read a few books, watched some documentaries, and really liked the Martin Fido audio book I listened to 15 years ago, but like Jack the Ripper and 9/11 the facts really aren't as interesting as the balloney people would like to pretend is supported by the evidence. "Frenchy" was just a tramp who had got some new clothes from the shelter. The policeman is just a poiceman. The mis-matching head wounds in different photographs are amazingly mundane.

This thread has offered little in the way of actual fact.
 
CvS isn't a good example for you. We know he was part of a conspiracy, that had a plan. And even though the assassination failed, we can see the mechanism of how it was supposed to work. How was the JFK conspiracy supposed to work? What was the death of one politician going to change?

What a question. Answer in just 3 letters:

LBJ
 
You haven't put any nails any coffins yet. I suppose this "final post" will allow you to declare victory and retreat, a wise decision on your part as you have been failing completely so far.




Are you seriously comparing the attempted assassinations of Hitler, a murderous dictator who was prosecuting a war ruinous to Germany, with the JFK assassination, the murder of an elected leader of a democratic society? :boggled:

NO. I am simply indicting the statement that national leaders are only murdered by Lone Nutters. And if the South had won the Civil war, John Wilkes Booth would have been regarded as a national hero.
 
NO. I am simply indicting the statement that national leaders are only murdered by Lone Nutters. And if the South had won the Civil war, John Wilkes Booth would have been regarded as a national hero.

Maybe someday you will simply provide some evidence for your innuendo.

What is your single best piece of evidence for a bullet coming from the grassy knoll? (hint: if you've already given it, you might want to start composing that parting shot, tail between your legs post now.)
 
After LBJ went to all that trouble to get the office, he abandoned it when the second chance for election came up!
What a maroon! :)
 
NO. I am simply indicting the statement that national leaders are only murdered by Lone Nutters. And if the South had won the Civil war, John Wilkes Booth would have been regarded as a national hero.

Booth wasn't a lone nut, that actually was a conspiracy.(Unlike JFK's death)
 
Is there some kind of movement to reduce attention span on this thread?

First the cap on how many questions can be asked. Then the demand that only one piece of evidence be offered at a time. The two word answer. Now the three letter answer?

Wouldn't it be nice to have RP actually sit down and see if he can connect all these loose threads of madness into something that resembled a coherent argument against the null, with his counter case supported by evidence and citation?
 
NO. I am simply indicting the statement that national leaders are only murdered by Lone Nutters. And if the South had won the Civil war, John Wilkes Booth would have been regarded as a national hero.
Booth wasn't a lone nut, that actually was a conspiracy.(Unlike JFK's death)

But if the South had won the Civil War, he would have been regarded as a lone, notoriety seeking, nut, not a conspirator (or national hero). There would have been no conspiracy, because winners don't need one.
 
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