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Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Grinder said:
Thanks for responding RW. I find it very strange that people are so little interested in Kokomani. He says he was there. His car matches the one in the driveway. He later is arrested and convicted of drug dealing. He stated that he knew Rudy before that night. He left for Albania shortly after the murder. He lawyered up before talking to Mignini. IIRC he owned TWO cell phones.

LMT always talked about the Albanian drug mafia running the show in Perugia.

I don't know about your detailed theory - could be for sure, but other theories could also work.

If Rudy was involved with the Albanian gang that sure could keep him from talking. I believe LMT said something on Frank's blog about Rudy's lawyer being involved in some other case that caused her suspicion.
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If Rudy Guede saw Kokomani on his way out of the cottage it would have been between aprox - 10-10:30 p.m.

1. Could the white car have been the stalled car? What color was that car? The stalled car called for assisantance at 10:30 p.m. How long was the car stalled before they made the call?

2. The downstairs apt. There was blood on the light swich. Do we really know this was cats blood or could it be yet another forensic error?

3. The Cat didn't put blood on the light switch, so how did it get there?

4. Could Rudy have stopped at the downstairs apt? Why would he do that?

5. That bloody tissue in the drive is very strange. It was VERY bloody. Doesn anyone else suspect it could have been RG's blood from the knife wound on his hand?

6. In the forensic video of the ouside there are strange circles that look like blood. What is that about?


I tend to think none of this is not tremendously important. I don't think RG was in partnership with anyone else. There is no signs of anyone else in the cottage. I think it is possible Kokomani and Guede saw eachother as Guede left. The blood on the light switch I find intriguing in that RG may have stopped there.
 
Grinder said:
Why would someone think Barbie would get this correct?
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____________________

Grinder,

Well, there's a hint in Raffaele's diary that the lovebirds drove from Raffaele's flat to the cottage..........


"She meanwhile had spoken to me about the fact that she had found something strange at her house. That is that she had found the front door opened, feces in the bathroom of the Italian girls and blood in their bathroom. While we came down from Corso Garibaldi she expressively demanded that I go to see in her house what had happened."


If they'd left Raffaele's flat in his car on the way to Gubbio---having tossed in the mop and bucket---it would make sense for Amanda to demand that they first stop at the cottage before leaving town. Alternatively, had they been walking down Corso Garibaldi, with mop and bucket in hand, they were clearly headed to the cottage........so what sense would there be in Amanda's demand that they go to the cottage? (Or is this more proof that Amanda is mentally deranged?)

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As I said eaerlier, there is very little parking on the narrow streets. One alternative would be for Raffalle to park his car in the covered car park across the street from the cottage.
 
Dan O. said:
As I said eaerlier, there is very little parking on the narrow streets. One alternative would be for Raffalle to park his car in the covered car park across the street from the cottage.
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Or.........shortly after Meredith's death was discovered, he drove his car back to his flat and walked back to the cottage, fearing that his car might be locked behind the iron gate as a restricted crime scene. That would explain why he and Amanda accepted a ride to the police station an hour later.

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Fine said:
____________________

Grinder,

Well, there's a hint in Raffaele's diary that the lovebirds drove from Raffaele's flat to the cottage..........


"She meanwhile had spoken to me about the fact that she had found something strange at her house. That is that she had found the front door opened, feces in the bathroom of the Italian girls and blood in their bathroom. While we came down from Corso Garibaldi she expressively demanded that I go to see in her house what had happened."


If they'd left Raffaele's flat in his car on the way to Gubbio---having tossed in the mop and bucket---it would make sense for Amanda to demand that they first stop at the cottage before leaving town. Alternatively, had they been walking down Corso Garibaldi, with mop and bucket in hand, they were clearly headed to the cottage........so what sense would there be in Amanda's demand that they go to the cottage? (Or is this more proof that Amanda is mentally deranged?)

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Raf's diary statements seem less than cogent for example the pricked Meredith remark. It doesn't seem likely that they would have driven to Gubbio with the mop and bucket in an A3.

I'd guess that Raffaele had worked out his parking system well before Amanda came into his life.

Kokomani's car was there and most certainly was the old dark colored car in the driveway.

There was evidence of unknown people in the cottage. Bra DNA and prints.
 
Fine said:
____________________

Or.........shortly after Meredith's death was discovered, he drove his car back to his flat and walked back to the cottage, fearing that his car might be locked behind the iron gate as a restricted crime scene. That would explain why he and Amanda accepted a ride to the police station an hour later.
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I doubt that after the police arrived anybody would be allowed to move their car. After the body was discovered they were questioned on site. The fact they were given a ride would be evidence that his car wasn't at the cottage.
 
Draca said:
If Rudy Guede saw Kokomani on his way out of the cottage it would have been between aprox - 10-10:30 p.m.

1. Could the white car have been the stalled car? What color was that car? The stalled car called for assisantance at 10:30 p.m. How long was the car stalled before they made the call?
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Cellphone records show Kokomani was there at 8pm.
The white car was not connected to the breakdown.
 
Magister said:
Cellphone records show Kokomani was there at 8pm.
The white car was not connected to the breakdown.
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Where did you get the 8pm cell record info?

ETA: He said he was there around 10 - 10:30. The white car was probably a figment of Rudy's imagination. Why would Kokomani put himself there at a time that would make him a suspect if he was really there an hour before Meredith returned? He knew the times by the time he spoke with Mignini.
 
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Grinder said:
Raf's diary statements seem less than cogent for example the pricked Meredith remark. It doesn't seem likely that they would have driven to Gubbio with the mop and bucket in an A3.

I'd guess that Raffaele had worked out his parking system well before Amanda came into his life.

Kokomani's car was there and most certainly was the old dark colored car in the driveway.

There was evidence of unknown people in the cottage. Bra DNA and prints.
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I think the problem is that this evidence of other people is still very weak.

It's possible but outside Massei's head that doesn't get you to probable.

Of course if the investigating authorities had been remotely competent or ethical they would have obtained DNA samples, fingerprints and foot imprints from all of the housemates, Kokomani, Curatolo and anyone else who could possibly have been involved and checked all of the evidence against all of these reference samples.

If Kokomani's DNA or fingerprints showed up inside the house that would potentially be very powerful evidence he was directly involved. However the police simply didn't check for it, as I understand it, so we'll never know.

Even if you think he was involved (and I think it's more likely than not he knows more than he is saying), it could just be that he was acting as a lookout for Guede and fell asleep on the job, or was his getaway driver, and had no direct involvement in the unpremeditated murder of Meredith Kercher. I believe under Italian law he could still get a heavy sentence for that, so he would have motivation to lie.
 
Grinder said:
Raf's diary statements seem less than cogent for example the pricked Meredith remark. It doesn't seem likely that they would have driven to Gubbio with the mop and bucket in an A3.

I'd guess that Raffaele had worked out his parking system well before Amanda came into his life.

Kokomani's car was there and most certainly was the old dark colored car in the driveway.

There was evidence of unknown people in the cottage. Bra DNA and prints.
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_____________________

Grinder,

We know Raffaele had a motive for lying about pricking Meredith. What motive could he have had to imply that he drove his car, with Amanda, to the cottage if he hadn't done so?

Kokomani was there the night of the murder? Was that the same night he claims to have seen Amanda, Raffaele, and Rudy? He said that night was a rainy night. It didn't rain in Perugia on the night of November 1st, 2007.

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Fine said:
_____________________

Grinder,

We know Raffaele had a motive for lying about pricking Meredith. What motive could he have had to imply that he drove his car, with Amanda, to the cottage if he hadn't done so?
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If you believe he lied about the knife prick then you might wonder why. I don't think he lied about it, I think his mind was reeling. He wrote rubbish because his mind was a mess. He didn't say they drove. Why would only he imply it? I forgot why it's important whther or not they drove? If they drove, where was his car when they drove to the police station?

Kokomani was there the night of the murder? Was that the same night he claims to have seen Amanda, Raffaele, and Rudy? He said that night was a rainy night. It didn't rain in Perugia on the night of November 1st, 2007.

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Rainy, disco buses, red coat - whatever :) Why would he have said he was there, if he wasn't? I think he feared being discovered through witnesses or cell records and tried to inoculate the situation by coming forward with his story.
 
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Fine said:
____________________

Grinder,

Well, there's a hint in Raffaele's diary that the lovebirds drove from Raffaele's flat to the cottage..........


"She meanwhile had spoken to me about the fact that she had found something strange at her house. That is that she had found the front door opened, feces in the bathroom of the Italian girls and blood in their bathroom. While we came down from Corso Garibaldi she expressively demanded that I go to see in her house what had happened."


If they'd left Raffaele's flat in his car on the way to Gubbio---having tossed in the mop and bucket---it would make sense for Amanda to demand that they first stop at the cottage before leaving town. Alternatively, had they been walking down Corso Garibaldi, with mop and bucket in hand, they were clearly headed to the cottage........so what sense would there be in Amanda's demand that they go to the cottage? (Or is this more proof that Amanda is mentally deranged?)

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I think that Raffaele has a habit of saying and writing things that are a bit incorrect if taken literally. It is quite possible, given the highlighted quote, that they were going to go to his car, and as they left, she demanded that they go look at her flat first. I can see him saying "yes, honey, that all sounds a bit odd, but let's get in the car and drive to Gubbio", and her saying "No! This is really strange and is creeping me out! We have to go look at it!". So they walked over, and instead of leaving the mop at his place, they brought it with them, since they were now going to the cottage.

It's a guess, but either could make sense, and the quote does not show he drove.

Also, I think that even if his car was at the cottage, the police might very well have wanted to drive everyone to the station, especially the two people found at the scene. Wouldn't want them taking off, until they could sort things out ...
 
Dougm said:
Also, I think that even if his car was at the cottage, the police might very well have wanted to drive everyone to the station, especially the two people found at the scene. Wouldn't want them taking off, until they could sort things out ...
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They got a ride from Luca and Paola though, not the police. If his car was there I think they would have just taken it to the station instead.
 
Greetings everyone,
What an insane sunset was seen by those of us on the beach tonight, hope you all had a great Sunday too! :)

Anyways, it is kind of interesting change of pace to discuss the strange happenings of this tragic murder we discuss, who knows, maybe something will come of it...

Correct me if I am wrong, but the keys that Giacomo gave to Meredith were found in Amanda's bedroom, weren't they? I've heard it said before, but I am not 100% sure. But if so, where were they found? Near a dresser drawer perhaps? Meaning that someone searching for $$$ put them down to have a look, and forgot them there?

Or maybe Meredith herself left them there if and when she went into Amanda's bedroom to borrow that lamp that was found in Mez's bedroom. Were they found on the floor near an electrical outlet?

Were the keys fingerprinted and/or DNA tested? Was here any trace of cat's blood on them? What about human blood?

Either way, the keys found their way into Amanda's bedroom. If not by Meredith, then by someone involved in her murder. They are a rarely mentioned, overlooked clue, I feel.

When Amanda came home to shower and change, didn't she see the bloodstained napkins found outside her place, which supposely had cats blood on them? Didn't she notice those keys in her bedroom? I can't recall her ever mentioning that she found them. Who did?

I also do not remember if she had gotten stoned that morning before coming over to her house. Whatever the case, she inadvertantly altered the crime scene when she came home that morning, since I feel that either Meredith or the killer came into her bedroom and left those the keys that Giacomo had given Meredith.

Thinking about those left keys makes me wonder.
I wonder if any of Amanda's drawers were opened and searched. If so, it does not appear that she even noticed if 1 was slightly ajar on the morning of November 2.

Dan O. has previously posted a photograph of Laura's bedroom, which showed it very neat and tidy, except for a drawer left open. I would image that this drawer was searched too, unless it was the panty drawer and Rudy or someone was just checkin' out the lingerie...

While looking for something today in 'Murder in Italy', I learned that the top drawer in Meredith's nightstand was found slightly open, leading Candace Dempsey to speculate that an intruder had made a quick search of it for valuables. He did not take Meredith's white Mac computer though, nor did he, when he rummaged thru her bloodstained beige shoulder bag, take her iPod either, (Rudy seemed to already have 1, we know that he said he listened to it while evacuating his bowels, and we know that Rudy, after Milan, probably realized that carrying stolen laptops on him were a good way to get busted).

I've always found it kind of interesting that a glass of water was found on Meredith's nightstand, one might deduce that the expanation for this is that not much of a fight went down in her bedroom before Meredith was killed.

But those keys, found in Amanda's bedroom, are buggin' me for some reason.
What's a reasonable explanation for their presence? I'll throw out something: Did Amanda find them and go downstairs with or without Raff, before the cops came, trying to figure out what the heck was going on? Calling out for Meredith?

Or is there a simple reason, like Meredith just left them there, if she had borrowed Amanda's lamp.

Or did the killer leave them there?
Hmmm, I'll ponder this a bit as I try to get into the spirit, you might say, by watching my sister's copy of John Carpenter's Halloween on DVD tonight, and try to figure out some of these strange clues that are buggin' me...
L8, RW
 
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