Occupy Wall Street better defend its identity

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1. Tear-gas canisters have to land somewhere; Olsen was unfortunate in that he happened to be standing where one was going to land.

2. The protestors have learned to put women, vets, kids and handicapped at the front from Hamas. It's a feature, not a bug.

Except they weren't being human shields. They were rushing to his aid, and someone threw a flashbang into the middle of the crowd. That's inexcusable. It's really sickening that you're willing to spin trying to help the injured, i.e. basic human decency, as a tactical decision. It's also incredible that you're trying to draw comparisons to Hamas out of a man having his head fractured by a tear gas canister. I'm sorry. If you're going to be that disingenuous about it, I'm not going to continue this conversation.
 
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scottolsen.jpg


Oh wait, he's said some inappropriate things. Never mind. Nothing to see. Move on.
 
An asset you purchase expecting to have a 5% return but in truth will lose money is bad. I know this. Accounting was my minor and I wrote financial software for two decades. Before I lost my job in 2009 I was an auditor for 8 years. My reports would actually state, "bad asset" if the asset would cost more to service or liquidate than it could possibly return then it was bad. Trivially true.

I would likely call that "not an asset" rather than a "bad" one. An asset is by definition supposed to produce future revenue which junk simply won't. There are write-down P&L accounts there for a reason.

You're describing something similar to another of my pet peeves regarding mutual funds. The data you see in the quarterly report is usually end-of-term information. You don't really know how many dogs there were for 89 days out of the quarter when you read the final document.

So there are a lot of places that could benefit from a touch of regulation (ie internal/external auditing). Are the OWS folks all about auditing rules though?
 
I would likely call that "not an asset"...
You are certainly entitled to do that and technically I understand the point but it's hyper technical. Assets can become liabilities but that isn't realized until the asset is liquidated or disposed of.

An asset is by definition supposed to produce future revenue which junk simply won't.
Same with employees. I guess we could call employees who are sick non-employees for the period of time they are on sick leave. Again, hyper technical and not worth the trouble. That the asset is bad tells us everything we need to know. Liquidate or offload it (pay someone to take it off our hands). Information is conveyed that the business owner understands and can act on. Agonizing over jargon is pointless so long as it is not misleading. Now, debit-valuation accounting (hello BofA), that's what I have problem with.
 
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#931
RandFan
Originally Posted by A Laughing Baby
I think his implication is that they should have been protesting sooner, and the fact that they weren't until now makes them either hypocrites or astroturf. I THINK.

gotcha. It's actually a valid point if they were simply protesting a downturn in the economy. And that probably is the case for some percentage and on that I'd actually agree with him. However it's the criminality and ownership of politicians by corporations and wall street that has many upset. Politicians want my vote but at the end of the day they will do what wall street tells them to do. I want that to stop.

I'll try to explain exactly what my issue with OWS is.

1] The slogan is "We are the 99%". This is a direct reference to income and the divergence of income growth directly correlates to the dropping of the marginal tax rate from around 85% to 35%. If they clarified their goal as purely to re-establish that rate to where it was beforehand then at least I'd understand their programme. It would be simple, clear, effective, and comprehensible.

2] The issue of corporate/political corruption is a combination of guilt by association and genuine complaints about specific individuals. These two things have to be separated or nobody with any money to speak of will see OWS as anything except purely anti-corporate and anti-business. If they can do this then the pressure ought to be on the judicial processes and not the legislative processes. Wrong venue, in other words.

3] Many of the ancillary issues (poor economy, sluggish growth, arcane contribution laws, innuendo about some "corporate/political complex", outsourcing, etc) have absolutely nothing to do with the stated 99% per cent goals and are close to crazy talk. A perfect example is Michael Moore's stupid braying about outsourcing being un-American. If you're trying to "fix" income disparity then you can't throw tools out of your economic policy toolbox.

4] I am convinced that these OWS'rs have simply taken the Tea Party boilerplate and tie-dyed it a different colour. They are likely looking for the Democrat versions of Michelle Bachmann to force their way inside. This kind of brazen politicking will doom the hackey-sack players who honestly think they're doing something positive.

5] Finally, of course, I maintain that people who hold a principled position against business and against corporations should be looking longer term because the economy doesn't stay bad forever. This is what I'd said before. If they really are anti-business and think that all corporate/government links should be severed then this has to apply in both the good times and the bad. When Corporation X comes to your town, opens a plant, hires all your formerly out-of-work clowns on stilts and unicyclists, what is going to happen to your "movement"? If it's dependent on the economy (and that's prone to fluctuation) then at least half the time your "movement" will be moribund and you'll have to gear it all back up again about every five to fifteen years. That's wasteful and counter-productive.

Does that help a bit?
 
Oh wait, he's said some inappropriate things. Never mind. Nothing to see. Move on.

This stuff is a marketing exec's wet dream. They ought to be able to parlay this into something. If they don't or can't then that ought to tell you something about the "movement's" capacity to create a product that people want.

I'd thought earlier that they could have launched a campaign based on Naomi Wolf's arrest but they dropped the ball there too. I have piles of ideas for them if they need a reasonably-priced consultant.

They need me.
 
1] The slogan is "We are the 99%". This is a direct reference to income and the divergence of income growth directly correlates to the dropping of the marginal tax rate from around 85% to 35%. If they clarified their goal as purely to re-establish that rate to where it was beforehand then at least I'd understand their programme. It would be simple, clear, effective, and comprehensible.
I didn't get to choose the slogans or mottos. Not really important to me but point taken.

2] The issue of corporate/political corruption is a combination of guilt by association and genuine complaints about specific individuals. These two things have to be separated or nobody with any money to speak of will see OWS as anything except purely anti-corporate and anti-business. If they can do this then the pressure ought to be on the judicial processes and not the legislative processes. Wrong venue, in other words.
Again, I understand your point. The problem is that the issues are so entrenched and systemic and there is clearly no will to change. It's going to take a major shock to the system for the change. It might have been better to have done something else but, for me, I'll take what I can get.

3] Many of the ancillary issues (poor economy, sluggish growth, arcane contribution laws, innuendo about some "corporate/political complex", outsourcing, etc) have absolutely nothing to do with the stated 99% per cent goals and are close to crazy talk. A perfect example is Michael Moore's stupid braying about outsourcing being un-American. If you're trying to "fix" income disparity then you can't throw tools out of your economic policy toolbox.
This I don't agree with. It's no mystery. The banking scandal is very illustrative of the problem. No way should any bank have been allowed to grow so big that if they gambled away depositors money we would be forced to bail them out. That's insanity. You don't have to worry bout that because Canada doesn't allow that to happen. Your govt provides adequate regulation and prevents a few banks from gobbling up all of the rest of the competition.

4] I am convinced that these OWS'rs have simply taken the Tea Party boilerplate and tie-dyed it a different colour. They are likely looking for the Democrat versions of Michelle Bachmann to force their way inside. This kind of brazen politicking will doom the hackey-sack players who honestly think they're doing something positive.
Disagree. People are really hurting here. I'll post some charts in my next post to show graphically just how bad. I think a lot of people really don't get how bad it is and why would you if you have a job and you have a place to live without worry of eviction or how to find a job?

5] Finally, of course, I maintain that people who hold a principled position against business and against corporations should be looking longer term because the economy doesn't stay bad forever.
My wife and I both lost our jobs two years ago. I lived on savings until it ran out and I was evicted. I was looking at homelessness. A friend from JREF took us in for 5 months. That was unnecessary and telling me, hey, no big deal, hang in there, doesn't begin to excuse what was done to my economy. And frankly, though I know you don't mean to be insensitive I really resent it. I've worked since I was 15 and I've always had a job. Often two jobs. Then the economy and an industry (insurance auditing) that had been solid for many decades dried up and disappeared.. The rich are getting richer and the middle class is holding on and they are just supposed to wait until they don't have to worry about losing their job and then they can just barely hold on some more.

I sure as hell hope not.
 
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41 charts that paint the problem in sharp relief.

CHARTS: Here's What The Wall Street Protesters Are So Angry About

The "Occupy Wall Street" protests are gaining momentum, having spread from a small park in New York to marches to other cities across the country.

So far, the protests seem fueled by a collective sense that things in our economy are not fair or right. But the protesters have not done a good job of focusing their complaints—and thus have been skewered as malcontents who don't know what they stand for or want.
Click here to see the charts>
 
It is significant that one of the founders of the Tea Party, Karl Denninger, has publicly backed OWS.

Here's Denninger's take on the movement after taking part in his local 'occupy' protest:

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=196033

I'm a white man, the last guy you'd think would get the chance to speak, right? I'd be asked to "step back"? Uh, no. Anyone who stood in line got called in turn without fear or favor. We were a nice motley crew made up of men and women of all ages, races, colors and sizes, and we all took our turn. Nobody hogged the floor or said anything that could be reasonably attributed as communist or racist.

But there was one overwhelming theme: The people have been robbed, the Wall Street and DC people did it, and the people have had enough of the lies, broken promises and outright theft.

and:

OWS looks like exactly what it appeared to be from 20,000 feet, despite the claims of many in the media and other so-called "punditry." It's a group of very***********-off ordinary citizens who, as I noted on RT, know damn well they got serially screwed, but they're not sure exactly how.

They know who did it though, and have identified the correct targets for their wrath.

Karl Denninger has been chronicling the fraud on Wall St. and the collusion between big corporations (specifically banks) and big government, for the last few years. He voted for Obama in 2008 and then went on to be one of the founders of the Tea Party. If only more people could see behind the 'left-right' claptrap.

But no, the, 'they are commies funded by George Soros and run by Acorn' meme spreads through the interweb. Well, we all know what this meme is designed for. It is designed to polarize this issue into a 'left-right' football that can be safely incorporated into the mainstream media/politics game. It is designed to discourage support from disgruntled folk on the right, as a bi-lateral movement would be really threatening to the establishment. As such, we know that it comes from a dark place.
 
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Just heard Norman Goldman on the radio saying that pimp boy O"Keefe is showing up at some of these events looking like a bum.

Coincidence? I doubt it.
 
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/263894ea68b654edf9.jpg[/qimg]

Thanks JJ, you and I don't get along much as we have some critical disagreements but I appreciate this picture. This is what we are talking about.

Turns out that picture had some impact. The girl carrying it was fired:

The next day, The Takeaway's general manager fired me over the phone, effective immediately. He was inconsolably angry, and said that I had violated every ethic of journalism, and that this should be a "teaching moment" for me in my career as a journalist.
DOH!
 
Turns out that picture had some impact. The girl carrying it was fired:

DOH!
Your contempt for free speech is sowing.

When last week's events first came to light, she told the Baltimore Sun: "I find it puzzling that NPR objects to my exercising my rights as an American citizen - the right to free speech, the right to peaceable assembly—on my own time in my own life… I've never brought a whiff of my political activities into the work I've done for NPR World of Opera. What is NPR afraid I'll do—insert a seditious comment into a synopsis of Madame Butterfly?"
Why should anyone have free speech? Wouldn't it be better for anyone with a job who protested to be fired for fighting the status quo?
 
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More messy democracy:

Occupy LA’s decision-making body, the General Assembly, has been responsible for conducting the encampment’s business. As in most other cities, the participating members handle everything from ensuring the nightly meeting take place to doing financial research on Los Angeles-based bankers to cleaning up the trash. But on Wednesday, a large group of dissenters decided to occupy the General Assembly’s usual outdoor meeting space and assert themselves as the new regime. One man, standing at the center of the swirling and increasingly unruly crowd, yelled into a megaphone, “You don’t represent us anymore! We’re taking over! We’re the People’s Forum!” Rumblings of dissent and palpable animosity had been mounting in the camp throughout the afternoon. Informal meetings were held around the clock to hotly debate an issue that had factionalized the camp: weed.

Read it all; it's a real hoot and shows why these dolts can't get anything done.
 
Your contempt for free speech is sowing.

Why should anyone have free speech? Wouldn't it be better for anyone with a job to be fired for fighting the status quo?

So now you don't even know what free speech means?
:eek:
 
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