Occupy Wall Street better defend its identity

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RandFan said:
Because I've conceded that the ones I discuss don't represent the entire movement. I've conceded that the movement has caused problems, serious problems of crime and sanitation. I'm just asking for reciprocity.

Posting over and over anecdotes of problems without context, without a discussion of what those problems means doesn't leave much room to imagine the purpose. Anecdotes without context or discussion strike me as blatantly ad hominem. To discredit the movement on the basis of some percentage of the people there.
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Do you really need a disclaimer with every post that clarifies that the actions of some do not always represent the group?
 
Brainster said:
Bloomberg pulls the plug:



New York Magazine notes that this will make things a lot chillier:



Is this the way OWS ends? Not with a bang but a shiver?

A Fox reporter certainly got a frigid reception:



Meanwhile, turns out that marine (who's doing better by the way) who got hit by a tear-gas canister in Oakland, founded an interesting website.
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Oops, while you were digging to smear the wounded guy, you missed an inconvenient fact - Scott Olsen worked a high-paying, full-time job during the day and slept at Occupy Oakland at night.
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9QL00601.htm

Dang, there goes your crazy homeless hippie hype.
 
Neally said:
And the hand waving, rationalizing, and apologetic rhetoric continues.
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The idea is that the system is broken, top down. The government, the businesses, the regulations, everything. It's broken. You're focusing on the one aspect of that which appeals to your existing ideology--namely, taxation, because it fits in with the current "class warfare! O_O" theme that talk radio and other conservative media is running with. Here's something you neglected to quote from the article you used to justify that the OWS protesters are all dirty hippies out for a free lunch (and will use violence to justify it, of course):

The vast majority of demonstrators are actually employed, and the proportion of protesters unemployed (15%) is within single digits of the national unemployment rate (9.1%).
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Again, this is a poorly-conducted poll from a biased source, but it shows that there is something deeper at work here than simple discontent with tax rates or a desire for a free handout. The main grievance that I've heard from the protesters is that the system is broken, yet inescapable, and that needs to change. Certainly, tax rates are a portion of that. But it's not the entire problem, and absolutely not the only thing the protesters stand against.
 
respect said:
Do you really need a disclaimer with every post that clarifies that the actions of some do not always represent the group?
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No. An admission from time to time and an actual discussion of the merits pro and con rather than just posting over and over anecdotes without context or admission of any kind.

Look, I'd like it when I point out that it's an anecdote if someone would say concede the point. BTW: A number of people have stated that these do, by and large, represent the movement. Brainster told me to wake up and admit that these anecdotes are demonstrable of the movement. So, yeah, I'd like an honest discussion. That's all. Seems a fair request.
 
bookitty said:
Oops, while you were digging to smear the wounded guy, you missed an inconvenient fact - Scott Olsen worked a high-paying, full-time job during the day and slept at Occupy Oakland at night.
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9QL00601.htm

Dang, there goes your crazy homeless hippie hype.
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But he was a Jew-basher:

To criticize the Turks for defending their national border and cheer on the Hebrews for expanding theirs on the land of the other indigenous people you forgot to mention. The only distinctions the Kurds have, they share with many other indigenous people is that they did not show up by boatloads to occupy and settle someone else's land and by contrast majority of Hebrews do not even live in the said Hebrew mother land and are perfectly happy where ever it is they call home.
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So he just fits into another of the charming demographics of the Occutards.
 
Realistically (setting aside the assumption that anti-settlement/expansion = anti-Jew), no matter what beliefs a person has, nothing justifies having one's skull literally cracked open and having a flashbang thrown into the crowd attempting to help with no provocation on the victim's part.
 
Neally said:
And the hand waving, rationalizing, and apologetic rhetoric continues.
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respect said:
Do you really need a disclaimer with every post that clarifies that the actions of some do not always represent the group?
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do you two deny that the current system is broken?
do you deny that this disfunction runs deeper than 'who is in the oval office'?
 
respect said:
The system is not broken but that doesn't mean that improvements cannot be made.
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I think we need something far more than improvements. I think it is broken. Not irreparably but there are serious problems.

Paul Volker, David Stockman and others point out just how systemic the problems are. So long as financial institutions can blur the lines of investment, banking and insurance, so long as it's easy for rich people to buy legislatures, so long as the needs of the people are largely ignored for the will of corporations then thing can and will only get worse. JMO.
 
RandFan said:
I think we need something far more than improvements. I think it is broken. Not irreparably but there are serious problems.

Paul Volker, David Stockman and others point out just how systemic the problems are. So long as financial institutions can blur the lines of investment, banking and insurance, so long as it's easy for rich people to buy legislatures, so long as the needs of the people are largely ignored for the will of corporations then thing can and will only get worse. JMO.
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this the truth in a nutshell.
all else is smoke and mirrors.

weird how this disfunction does not respect international boundaries, much as multi-national corporations.
 
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RandFan said:
I think we need something far more than improvements. I think it is broken. Not irreparably but there are serious problems.

Paul Volker, David Stockman and others point out just how systemic the problems are. So long as financial institutions can blur the lines of investment, banking and insurance, so long as it's easy for rich people to buy legislatures, so long as the needs of the people are largely ignored for the will of corporations then thing can and will only get worse. JMO.
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A few regulations is not a complete overhaul of the system, keep in mind that I was responding to someone who believes that capitalism should be abolished and every country should emulate Cuba.
 
respect said:
A few regulations is not a complete overhaul of the system, keep in mind that I was responding to someone who believes that capitalism should be abolished and every country should emulate Cuba.
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I understand, I don't want to end capitalism. But there needs to be some significant changes. We can disagree with the degree but "a few" regulations doesn't come close IMHO.
 
respect said:
No, I am going to skip showers for a few weeks and play hacky sack, that will show those evil corporations.
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Snark aside, if they were to go home and take a nice hot shower (which I'm sure they'd all love to do at this point), it would be getting rid of the "occupy" portion of the protest, wouldn't it?
 
Occupy SF is a health hazard:

“Evidence of excrement, urine and vomit were observed throughout the park,” the department said in a notice. “Fecal material was observed on stairs and grass. A container of human waste was observed along the Embarcadero side of the park.”

“Several piles of vomit were observed along the Embarcadero side of the park,” the notice read. “Pile of feces and tampons found at a nearby pathway. Flies and urine observed along pathway.”
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A Laughing Baby said:
Realistically (setting aside the assumption that anti-settlement/expansion = anti-Jew), no matter what beliefs a person has, nothing justifies having one's skull literally cracked open and having a flashbang thrown into the crowd attempting to help with no provocation on the victim's part.
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1. Tear-gas canisters have to land somewhere; Olsen was unfortunate in that he happened to be standing where one was going to land.

2. The protestors have learned to put women, vets, kids and handicapped at the front from Hamas. It's a feature, not a bug.
 
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