Pat Buchanan... The Suicide of a Superpower

[The Shrike]

My hometown in NY had very clearly defined Irish, Italian, and Polish neighborhoods for much of the 20th Century, united by their Catholicism. The old money in the town were WASPs, and I didn't know any of them. You can bet they were often fearful of these new immigrant waves, just as the old Irish, Italians, and Poles were when the Bosnians moved in during the 1990s. Same story, different characters.

The Irish brought drunkenness and fist fights to settle every score. They also dug ditches and built railways and fought fires and policed our streets. The Italians brought the mafia, but they also built our skyscrapers, revolutionized American cuisine, and gave birth to Sinatra. The Poles . . . well, I don't know if they did anything bad, but I know that just about every dairy farmer I knew growing up was Polish so we can thank them for a whole lotta ice cream - and those pretty blue-eyed farm girls! Every group that comes in will bring some challenges, but each contributes in a real way to the building of America.

Despite all the efforts of these groups to hold on to their Old World traditions, when push comes to shove, they identify as Americans and make sacrifices for their adopted home. One need look no further than the names of our WWII or Vietnam or 9/11 casualties to see that.

So (rhetorical), have Mexican-Americans borne any of the burdens of the War on Terror? Are those people doing things every day that help build up our nation (like dig every hole and nail every roofing shingle in my town for the past few years)? If so, take a few deep breaths and realize that assimilation is a process that takes generations. They're Americans, just like my grandparents' generation, and probably yours too.

 

[Gazpacho]

here's a speaker at a La Raza rally attempting to incite revolution to return land to Mexican control:

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/5892277-la-raza-racism-and-revolution
(video is on page)

and here's a link to snopes, which substantiated in whole or in part a wide range of racist statements and US hating by La Raza and MECHA:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/hispanicleaders.asp

It's just terrible, isn't it? The thought that an ethnic group might actually use its political rights to affect policy. Something must be done!

 

[bikerdruid]

My hometown in NY had very clearly defined Irish, Italian, and Polish neighborhoods for much of the 20th Century, united by their Catholicism. The old money in the town were WASPs, and I didn't know any of them. You can bet they were often fearful of these new immigrant waves, just as the old Irish, Italians, and Poles were when the Bosnians moved in during the 1990s. Same story, different characters.

The Irish brought drunkenness and fist fights to settle every score. They also dug ditches and built railways and fought fires and policed our streets. The Italians brought the mafia, but they also built our skyscrapers, revolutionized American cuisine, and gave birth to Sinatra. The Poles . . . well, I don't know if they did anything bad, but I know that just about every dairy farmer I knew growing up was Polish so we can thank them for a whole lotta ice cream - and those pretty blue-eyed farm girls! Every group that comes in will bring some challenges, but each contributes in a real way to the building of America.

Despite all the efforts of these groups to hold on to their Old World traditions, when push comes to shove, they identify as Americans and make sacrifices for their adopted home. One need look no further than the names of our WWII or Vietnam or 9/11 casualties to see that.

So (rhetorical), have Mexican-Americans borne any of the burdens of the War on Terror? Are those people doing things every day that help build up our nation (like dig every hole and nail every roofing shingle in my town for the past few years)? If so, take a few deep breaths and realize that assimilation is a process that takes generations. They're Americans, just like my grandparents' generation, and probably yours too.

excellent post.
a nation built by immigrants should not fear immigration.
think of all the ethnic food!!

 

[Gazpacho]

Hateful remark:

They ought to go back to Europe.

Patriotic remark:

I suggest you go back to Mexico, or be afraid... be very afraid.

Hateful:

Even though I'm saying this part serious and part joking, I believe we are practicing 'La Reconquista' in California.

Patriotic:

If you want a war, we can oblige you.

Foreigners:

Real Americans:

Any questions?

 

[Roadtoad]

Buchanan is perhaps one of the most dishonest individuals in the political debate, ever. Reading the OP, it appears this has not changed, and if anything, he's probably simply learned to be a little more subtle.

One of the things that Pat has forgotten is that towards the end of every major conflict, regardless of how that conflict ended, the Superpower which emerged with the victory generally faded. This tended to happen with the rather flexible Romans, Britain with their Wall of Oak and their role in WWII, and now with the collapse of the Soviet Union, we're taking our place towards the end of the line. It happens. His insulting assumption that we're exempt from History is one of the reasons that Buchanan is regarded with derision by some.

Considering there are few of the original inhabitants descendents of this continent left, I'm appalled by Buchanan's assertions. It's cowardly, but I don't expect any better from the man who put words in Richard Nixon's mouth. Buchanan's only high point was helping Richard Nixon tell America he was finally gone. (Up to that point, he'd been like a case of herpes. You just couldn't get rid of him.)

This kind of old school racist Conservatism, complete with its xenophobia, was long ago disproved by Buckley and others. It's the kind of political porn that gives certain tea party types stiffies and leaves Bachman breathless. It's a populist dildo; you think you're getting something, and you are: you're screwed.

Personally, I hope Pat keeps talking. He just shows how far from the mainstream he is as he does this. Hell, even Rush Limbaugh has shut him out as far as I can tell. That ought to tell you something.

 

[varwoche]

The modern group of immigrants (primarily those from and through Mexico) have ZERO desire to even pay lip service to the prevailing US culture. Furthermore, even a casual inspection of the manifestoes of groups like La Raza and MECHA show that they fully intend that the parts of the US they inhabit (primarily the SW US) will be "reconquered" by Mexico and returned to Mexican rule.

Broad brush. La Raza doesn't represent all Mexican immigrants. The "ZERO" is particularly asinine.

One thing that's unique about Mexicans immigrating to the southwest, versus all other immigrants: they are immigrating to what used to be their home country, taken by force. Yeah I know, it's ancient history. Still, it introduces a different dynamic.

 

[The Shrike]

The "ZERO" is particularly asinine.

Well, he's particularly skilled at making sweeping statements that ignore, or are contrary to, the evidence. I challenge Muldur to visit this site and then explain to the families of these troops killed in Operation Enduring Freedom that Mexican immigrants don't "pay lip service to the prevailing U.S. culture." That's garbage.

Just some of the heroes on this list:

Gonzalez-Garzo
Morales
Gutierrez
Torres
Fernandez
Diaz
Munoz
Garza
Valdez
Moreno
Melendez Sanchez
Elizarraras
Pena
Sanchez
Oceguera
Fejeran
Palomarez
Ramirez
Guerrero

Plus many, many more. There are also plenty of Irish, Italian, and Polish names on that sad list.

 

[Muldur]

In fact, just like now "OMG, they want to bring sharia law" has become the battle-cry of the ignorant bigot, back in the 19'th century you had articles and political cartoons claiming basically that the irish are trying to undo the separation of church and state, and more specifically trying to get the Pope or Catholicism into leading the state. How's that for the same charge as today?

19th century is not today, and we have the illegals' OWN WORDS to condemn them with, as documented in my links above.

The Snopes page does not support your position as strongly as a casual reader of this forum might assume from your reference to it.

It absolutely DOES support my contention. The only portions of the quoted text Snopes calls "false" involve the claim about extradition and questions the crime and poverty statistics.

The racist, revolutionary-inciting statements of La Raza and MECHA were completely supported by the documentation on the part of Snopes.

 

[Muldur]

It's just terrible, isn't it? The thought that an ethnic group might actually use its political rights to affect policy. Something must be done!

They aren't talking about US policy. They're outright DENYING that our own soil is ours. They claim it's still Mexican soil and want us off of it, as documented by the quotes.

 

[Muldur]

Well, he's particularly skilled at making sweeping statements that ignore, or are contrary to, the evidence. I challenge Muldur to visit this site and then explain to the families of these troops killed in Operation Enduring Freedom that Mexican immigrants don't "pay lip service to the prevailing U.S. culture." That's garbage.

Just some of the heroes on this list:

Gonzalez-Garzo
Morales
Gutierrez
Torres
Fernandez
Diaz
Munoz
Garza
Valdez
Moreno
Melendez Sanchez
Elizarraras
Pena
Sanchez
Oceguera
Fejeran
Palomarez
Ramirez
Guerrero

Plus many, many more. There are also plenty of Irish, Italian, and Polish names on that sad list.

Great! We could use more people like the above.

Unfortunately that's not what most of these "immigrants" represent, as the picture of the protest sign threatening to "shoot more cops" unless the immigrants were given "free" everything that has been making the rounds shows.

 

[Gazpacho]

And what "rounds" might those be?

Surely those "rounds" didn't intentionally show you just enough to whip you up into a spic-hating frenzy. Surely not...

 

[SezMe]

Unfortunately that's not what most of these "immigrants" represent, as the picture of the protest sign threatening to "shoot more cops" unless the immigrants were given "free" everything that has been making the rounds shows.

On what basis do you claim that La Raza and MECHA represent "most" immigrants?

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

Different Attitudes

A couple of thoughts:

My great grandfather immigrated from Italy. The first thing he did upon arriving at Ellis Island was change his surname to be more American. I don't see that happening today. On the contrary, I don't see many of today's immigrants attempting to be anything American, many are not even willing to learn the language. In my opinion it is a change in the attitude of today's immigrants, compared to those of 100 years ago.

Something that bothers me is how it is common to hear how the immigrants work harder and are willing to do jobs which Americans are not willing to perform. While this may or not be true, my issue is with how many immigrants do not have social security numbers because they did not come to America through the correct/legal process. This means there are no taxes being paid on the money they have earned in this country which is not fair to the rest of the people who pay taxes on every dollar earned. So, in my opinion, this is also a huge difference. Immigrants of the 20th century mostly arrived via a legal process while more recent immigrants have arrived (and are arriving) through the back door.

 

[varwoche]

My great grandfather immigrated from Italy. The first thing he did upon arriving at Ellis Island was change his surname to be more American. I don't see that happening today. On the contrary, I don't see many of today's immigrants attempting to be anything American, many are not even willing to learn the language.

Evidence?

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

Evidence?

What, you want the documents I have showing our last name change?

 

[Toontown]

Assimilation has long been a major difficulty in the U.S.

What about the guy who says "Ah'm Umerrikin. Whut duz ass-emma...whutever mean, anyhow?" Has he assimilated? Sure, him and his parents have been out there in the hinterland somewhere all their lives. They might even have a TV. But this guy comes clumping out of the boonies and can barely speak the language.

What about the guy who says "I am Amellikan. I know whole constitution. I make pearfict score on immigration test. Soon I will join army to defend constitution."

I think Pat would agree, that's an American. Where Pat has gone wrong is in failing to recognize the failure of millions of born-and-bred Amurrikins to assimilate.

What about that crowd of native-borns in the street chanting "Hi-dee-hi! Ho-dee-ho! Amerika has got to go!"

Are they Americans? No, I think Pat would agree they're just some punks looking to pick a fight with that Amellikan guy. In addition to not being Americans, they are also not very intelligent.

 

[varwoche]

What, you want the documents I have showing our last name change?

Seriously? Why in Odin's name would a skeptic care about a meaningless anecdote? True or false, it informs me of precisely nothing. No matter; let's try again:

I don't see many of today's immigrants attempting to be anything American, many are not even willing to learn the language.

What I'm expecting is: (1) evidence for the above, hopefully irrespective of the "I don't see" qualifier, and (2) evidence things are different now versus the good old days.

 

[padego]

I'm sure most Native Americans would have something to say over our ability to assimilate....

 

[The Shrike]

They don't count 'cause they're not white.

Meantime, my grandparents spoke Italian at home and were sad to see their children's generation abandon that practice. I have little doubt that 3rd and 4 th generation Mexican Americans will be as fluent in English as I am.

 

[Toontown]

I'm sure most Native Americans would have something to say over our ability to assimilate....

Evidence?