Pat Buchanan... The Suicide of a Superpower

[Bikewer]

Yes, America is in the process of suicide. Diane Rehm had Pat on for the second hour yesterday, plugging his new book. I guess the campaign trail didn't beckon this time...

Anyway, what's causing America to "suicide"? Diversity. Yes, that's right, all those naughty furriners moving in. Why, white folks will be a minority in a few years.

"But Pat," you might say, "Aren't we all immigrants? What about all those generations of Germans and Irish and Italians and all... All of whom only wanted to become Americans?"
Well, that's the problem, according to Buchanan. These new immigrants. (Hispanics, Muslims, Asians...) aren't assimilating. All in the name of political correctness and "diversity", they are keeping their cultures and language and are not becoming proper Americans.
And that's all because of the public schools. Back in Pat's day (and mine) children were taught "patriotism" and they all had the same language and (pretty much) the same religion.
Not any more... We're doomed.
Does Pat have any recommendations to stop this cultural Armageddon? Nope... We're pretty much out of luck.
As you might imagine if you're a regular listener, Pat didn't get a lot of love from the Diane Rehm audience.

 

[ChristineR]

Did he blame the gayz? Cause you know, he's said in the past that no civilization that tolerated homosexuality has ever survived.

 

[Eddie Dane]

Did he blame the gayz? Cause you know, he's said in the past that no civilization that tolerated homosexuality has ever survived.

All those other civilizations are happily ticking along.

 

[Babbylonian]

Hey Pat: Welcome to what jerks (mainly old WASPs) were saying when the Irish had just got here, when the Italians had just got here, etc., etc.

Immigration Protip: Assimilation, both of and by the prevailing culture, takes time.

 

[LSSBB]

Well, that's the problem, according to Buchanan. These new immigrants. (Hispanics, Muslims, Asians...) aren't assimilating. All in the name of political correctness and "diversity", they are keeping their cultures and language and are not becoming proper Americans.

I wonder if he hopes to inspire an American Anders Breivik, although if I dig around I could find a few who tried in the past (Benjamin Nathaniel Smith is the first who comes to mind).

 

[Bikewer]

Yes, Pat's still down on homosexuality.... But he's moderated his position....The states should decide. He mentioned "controlled", and "discouraged".

 

[iknownothing]

"But Pat," you might say, "Aren't we all immigrants? What about all those generations of Germans and Irish and Italians and all... All of whom only wanted to become Americans?"
Well, that's the problem, according to Buchanan. These new immigrants. (Hispanics, Muslims, Asians...) aren't assimilating. All in the name of political correctness and "diversity", they are keeping their cultures and language and are not becoming proper Americans.

Earlier generations of immigrants didn't assimilate so neatly either. That's why you had cities with German neighborhoods and Irish neighborhoods and Italian neighborhoods. And why we still have ethnic festivals that those immigrants brought with them. And why people still call themselves "Irish" even though their Irish ancestors came here several generations ago. Etc.

This idea that other, better (Western European) immigrants blended right in is a myth.

 

[Verde]

Earlier generations of immigrants didn't assimilate so neatly either. That's why you had cities with German neighborhoods and Irish neighborhoods and Italian neighborhoods. And why we still have ethnic festivals that those immigrants brought with them. And why people still call themselves "Irish" even though their Irish ancestors came here several generations ago. Etc.

I really don't see anything wrong with that. Cultural identity is important for many folks. Also, makes for some really good parties!
However, there is massive leakage.
I am English, but my youngest son, who is English/American is dating a Columbian lady.
My daughter-in-law claims to be American, but when pushed promotes her birthplace as Hawaii, with a strong component of her Irish father and Greek mother.
So, my wonderful grandchildren, (who were born in Scottsdale and carry both US and British passports) are American/English/Irish/Greek.
My ex, aka Granny, was born in Wales, so lets throw a bit of Welsh in there. My (dearly departed) mother was from Austria, so there's a bit of Germanic influence included.

We're just a bunch of mongrels.

V.

 

[Polaris]

I am English, but my youngest son, who is English/American is dating a Columbian lady.

What's her major?

 

[johnnyace]

Germans began immigrating to the U.S. in the early 19th century to become the largest immigrant group (or at least at one time they were) in the country and they didn't begin widespread assimilation until after WWI.

 

[Pulvinar]

Yes, Pat's still down on homosexuality.... But he's moderated his position....The states should decide. He mentioned "controlled", and "discouraged".

Maybe he means like how Chinese babies are "discouraged" from being female?

 

[Chaos]

I really don't see anything wrong with that. Cultural identity is important for many folks. Also, makes for some really good parties!
However, there is massive leakage.
I am English, but my youngest son, who is English/American is dating a Columbian lady.
My daughter-in-law claims to be American, but when pushed promotes her birthplace as Hawaii, with a strong component of her Irish father and Greek mother.
So, my wonderful grandchildren, (who were born in Scottsdale and carry both US and British passports) are American/English/Irish/Greek.
My ex, aka Granny, was born in Wales, so lets throw a bit of Welsh in there. My (dearly departed) mother was from Austria, so there's a bit of Germanic influence included.

We're just a bunch of mongrels.

V.

But those are all white and Christian folks (well, white-ish in case of Greeks, but what honest god-fearing American patriots has any clue about what or where Greece is anyway?). They´re not like those evil darkie/commie/muslim/latino/Mexican folks coming to water down white blood and introduce Sharia law.

 

[quadraginta]

Yes, Pat's still down on homosexuality.... But he's moderated his position....The states should decide. He mentioned "controlled", and "discouraged".

I caught that show too. I thought the "states' rights" dodge was cute, in view of his later harangue on the importance of Federalism and national cultural unanimity.

Consistency has never been one of Pat's strengths.

 

[Gazpacho]

But you don't understand, the Musselmen and Hindoos are different because they won't learn English and won't give up their heathen worship or social customs.

 

[Eddie Dane]

Is it a good idea to let large numbers of people into a country, from a radically different culture?

I agree with all the derision for racism. But the above is a legitimate question.

Here in the Netherlands it has decreased social cohesion.
We have seen the rise of a really odious political party, due to voter's dissatisfaction with immigration.
We have more strife between ethnic and religious groups. In Sweden Jews have been targeted by Muslims. Currently in the Netherlands there are clashes between Kurds and Turks.
My gay friends move out of the city centres and are taking self defence classes in response to the often violent attitude that young Muslims have against them.
Social services have to deal with problems like honour killings and runaways from forced marriages.

I'm sure that in a hundred years, integration will have moved along considerably.
But in the mean time, we are dealing with a lot of fallout.

It ain't all positive.

 

[Muldur]

Earlier generations of immigrants didn't assimilate so neatly either. That's why you had cities with German neighborhoods and Irish neighborhoods and Italian neighborhoods. And why we still have ethnic festivals that those immigrants brought with them. And why people still call themselves "Irish" even though their Irish ancestors came here several generations ago. Etc.

This idea that other, better (Western European) immigrants blended right in is a myth.

They may have maintained some of their cultural identity, but the Germans, Irish, etc never tried to tell the rest of the US that they were going to turn their neighborhoods into annexes of the Old Country. They were also generally respectful and participatory in the common culture ON TOP of their ethnic identity.

The modern group of immigrants (primarily those from and through Mexico) have ZERO desire to even pay lip service to the prevailing US culture. Furthermore, even a casual inspection of the manifestoes of groups like La Raza and MECHA show that they fully intend that the parts of the US they inhabit (primarily the SW US) will be "reconquered" by Mexico and returned to Mexican rule.

here's a speaker at a La Raza rally attempting to incite revolution to return land to Mexican control:

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/5892277-la-raza-racism-and-revolution
(video is on page)

and here's a link to snopes, which substantiated in whole or in part a wide range of racist statements and US hating by La Raza and MECHA:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/hispanicleaders.asp

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

They may have maintained some of their cultural identity, but the Germans, Irish, etc never tried to tell the rest of the US that they were going to turn their neighborhoods into annexes of the Old Country. They were also generally respectful and participatory in the common culture ON TOP of their ethnic identity.

Really? You sure couldn't have told that by the propaganda against them at the time. A big theme in the scaremongering against both Irish and Germans was that they don't actually respect the "common" WASP culture, much less participate in it. The whole charge was that they stick to their own barbaric customs instead of acting like the properly civilized WASPs, practicing their own God-forsaken pagan religion (Catholicism, especially for the Irish, and yes a lot labeled it as "paganism"), and even try to turn America into their own backwards old country by "stuffing the ballots" in favour of what they want and the proper God-fearing WASPs don't. You don't find the Irish portrayed like some folks who celebrate St Patrick's day their way and then go on to live like everyone else in America, but as the invariably drunken slope-forehead brute with a club who is totally unlike the rest of Americans and makes no attempt whatsoever to take any part in the existing culture and way of life.

In fact, just like now "OMG, they want to bring sharia law" has become the battle-cry of the ignorant bigot, back in the 19'th century you had articles and political cartoons claiming basically that the irish are trying to undo the separation of church and state, and more specifically trying to get the Pope or Catholicism into leading the state. How's that for the same charge as today?

 

[paiute]

and here's a link to snopes, which substantiated in whole or in part a wide range of racist statements and US hating by La Raza and MECHA:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/hispanicleaders.asp

The Snopes page does not support your position as strongly as a casual reader of this forum might assume from your reference to it.

 

[Ryokan]

Is it a good idea to let large numbers of people into a country, from a radically different culture?

I agree with all the derision for racism. But the above is a legitimate question.

Here in the Netherlands it has decreased social cohesion.
We have seen the rise of a really odious political party, due to voter's dissatisfaction with immigration.
We have more strife between ethnic and religious groups. In Sweden Jews have been targeted by Muslims. Currently in the Netherlands there are clashes between Kurds and Turks.
My gay friends move out of the city centres and are taking self defence classes in response to the often violent attitude that young Muslims have against them.
Social services have to deal with problems like honour killings and runaways from forced marriages.

I'm sure that in a hundred years, integration will have moved along considerably.
But in the mean time, we are dealing with a lot of fallout.

It ain't all positive.

Using the USA as an example, and New York specifically, there were huge problems with each large immigration group that came there as well. The Irish, the Italians, the Chinese, the Jews, etc - all these groups spelled Doom and Gloom and created friction when they first came in large groups, and some of what you say above were said about these groups at the time. Would it have been best to deny these groups to come at all, knowing the friction it created?

 

[Bikewer]

It seems to me unlikely that large numbers of immigrants would be spending the considerable money, time, and danger to come to America to turn it into a mirror of their own country.
Else why did they leave?

I'm certain there are elements in the Hispanic immigrants that see America as originally usurping their lands (true...) and may have some ideas of regaining their lost Southwest by simple force of numbers.
However, most seem to just want a place to live and work in relative freedom from narco gangs, corrupt politicians, and non-existent services.

Many years ago, in of all things Playboy magazine, I read an interview with the then-head of the CIA. (can't recall who, this would have been around 1965)
When asked what he thought the most dangerous country to America might be, he answered.... "Mexico".