Occupy Wall Street better defend its identity

[portlandatheist]

Dumb Commies at OWS get mocked by Russian ex-pat:

Thanks for the video. It really goes to show how delusional the communists are by thinking North Korea is much better off than South Korea.

 

[RandFan]

You know, it just occurred to me. In the past ten years I've spent a hundred grand on rent. It's gone money never to be recovered and in the next ten years I'll spend another hundred grand, unless of course I loose this place, then I'll spend even more. So comparatively speaking, your mother is making out way better than me and i highly doubt she was complaining as she watched her investment skyrocket in value during the run up.

False consolation fallacy.

Had my mother simply lost her investment because of natural cycles I'd be a bit more receptive to your point even if it is a fallacy. As it is, deregulation and the unethical behavior cost her her home and much of her pension and other investments. Your consolation can't obviate the facts. Her predicament was the result of unscrupulous people and an inability of our elected leaders to protect us from shady financial machinations the way Canadian elected officials protect them

 

[AlBell]

You see RandFan. This movement you're supporting is not made up of average Joes, driven to protest by the abuses of Wall Street, with a few radicals on the fringe. It was a big, fat fib when you said it was. Its core consists of people like Bikerdruid. Radical leftists that don't want capitalism to exist at all. The same people who come out for all the other protests like the ones against the WTO, G8, ect.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/26/exclusive-acorn-playing-behind-scenes-role-in-occupy-movement/

The former New York office for ACORN, the disbanded community activist group, is playing a key role in the self-proclaimed “leaderless” Occupy Wall Street movement, organizing “guerrilla” protest events and hiring door-to-door canvassers to collect money under the banner of various causes while spending it on protest-related activities, sources tell FoxNews.com.

Yeah. I know; fox news, and "sources".

We'll see if MSM picks up the story.

 

[Ziggurat]

What laws are OWS breaking, by the way?

Trespassing, vagrancy, littering, disturbing the peace, etc.

 

[Brainster]

More fun in Oakland (NSFW, profanity):



Love the guy yelling "Stand your ground!" Right up until the moment when the tear gas lands near him.

Huge entertainment value.

 

[Stout]

False consolation fallacy.

Nope, it's a comparison of personal situations.

Had my mother simply lost her investment because of natural cycles I'd be a bit more receptive to your point even if it is a fallacy. As it is, deregulation and the unethical behavior cost her her home and much of her pension and other investments. Your consolation can't obviate the facts. Her predicament was the result of unscrupulous people and an inability of our elected leaders to protect us from shady financial machinations the way Canadian elected officials protect them

How did she come to lose her home then? Assuming, of course it was paid for. 20 years, a hundred grand, unless she had an outrageous interest rate then that shouldn't have been a hardship.

I hear you on the investments, I'm not making much of anything now on investments that were paying out at 8%, then along comes the crash and the principal drops by 25%. If she was planning on living off the interest as well as her pension, I feel for her and her loss.



So...what's OWS hoping to accomplish ? Are they demanding regulation of the financial sector ? An increase in social security benefits ? Just how is OWS and their action hoping/planning on "making things better" ? Oh, they're not, they're just complaining about anything and everything. That's the problem with this come one, come all format that they've dreamed up and it's looking more like a gong show than anything that's going to influence policy.

 

[RandFan]

Nope, it's a comparison of personal situations.

Nope, fallacy by definition. It would be great as an example. I always love it when people take an obvious and ourtright fallacy and try to justify it. Sorry Stout but it couldn't be a more clear example. BTW: A fallacy of consolation IS A COMPARISON OF PERSONAL SITUATIONS.

How did she come to lose her home then?

The failure of the stock market to produce and the devaluation of her pensions due to the housing market collapse kept her from being able to stay in her home and meet bills like mortgage and utilities. Her best bet was to cut her loses and move in with my sister. BTW My plan was for her to stick it out and I argued with everyone. The math is beginning to look like I was wrong.

Assuming, of course it was paid for. 20 years, a hundred grand, unless she had an outrageous interest rate then that shouldn't have been a hardship.

???? Please to explain.

So...what's OWS hoping to accomplish ?

OWS isn't monolithic. Many, myself including want the powers to be to take notice that the BS can't go on forever. Every year the middle class must live on less and the rich have more. That trend just won't last without civil unrest. Hopefully our leaders will notice that the people are stirring and for good reason. Hopefully we will restore sanity to our policies and regulations and stop letting the fox guard the hen house.

 

[Ziggurat]

So...what's OWS hoping to accomplish ? Are they demanding regulation of the financial sector ? An increase in social security benefits ? Just how is OWS and their action hoping/planning on "making things better" ? Oh, they're not, they're just complaining about anything and everything. That's the problem with this come one, come all format that they've dreamed up and it's looking more like a gong show than anything that's going to influence policy.

The OWS protesters have no clue about what their protests will achieve. But I think you make a mistake in thinking that the protests can't accomplish anything. They can, though not what the protesters intend. And what they might accomplish is a demonstration of the street muscle that leftist organizations can flex, and hence provide some credibility for future threats. What we're witnessing is the attempted formation of a racket: pay off those leftist leaders, and you might get protection from this mob. Don't... and you might have to face the mob on your own. This won't bring about any real "reform", but it could definitely lead to a real accumulation of power.

 

[Ziggurat]

Hopefully we will restore sanity to our policies and regulations and stop letting the fox guard the hen house.

I'm happy to hear that you're calling for smaller government.

 

[timhau]

It really goes to show how delusional the communists are by thinking North Korea is much better off than South Korea.

The South has in an obvious disadvantage -- they have a Muggle for a leader.

 

[Brainster]

A communique from Comrade Bedroom Warrior:

 

[Alt+F4]

Trespassing, vagrancy, littering, disturbing the peace, etc.

It's more than just that, it's sexual assault, regular assault, theft, drug dealing, and gang activity, all of which OWS admits is happening in Zuccotti Park. They refuse to throw these people out of the park or call the police when these things happen.

 

[Ziggurat]

It's more than just that, it's sexual assault, regular assault, theft, drug dealing, and gang activity, all of which OWS admits is happening in Zuccotti Park. They refuse to throw these people out of the park or call the police when these things happen.

Sure, that too, but for my argument I decided to limit it to stuff that was actually intrinsic to the protests, not just a nasty (and predictable) side effect.

 

[Ziggurat]

A communique from Comrade Bedroom Warrior:

Bwahahahahahaha! Oh, that's just comedy gold!

 

[JihadJane]

Protestors retreat from tear gas attack, some go back to help an apparently injured protestor who is lying, motionless, on the ground. Police fire a flashbang grenade at them:

 

[Brainster]

The failure of the stock market to produce and the devaluation of her pensions due to the housing market collapse kept her from being able to stay in her home and meet bills like mortgage...

Wait a minute! Didn't you say she didn't have a mortgage?

She paid cash for the house.

Don't look now, your pants are burning.

 

[Ziggurat]

False consolation fallacy.

Quite so. The incomparable Frank J. Flemming made the same point:

That’s what the wealthiest 1 percent do to us a nation: It’s just impossible to appreciate our affluence while other people are allowed to have so much more than us.

Sure, we could instead compare ourselves to the poor in other nations who live on a dollar a day or the poor throughout history who lacked all the freedoms, opportunity and technology we have -- but it’s too depressing to think about those people. Instead, we just need to do something about the wealthiest 1 percent.

 

[Alt+F4]

A communique from Comrade Bedroom Warrior:

That was too funny! One of the comments was correct, that should be called "Occupy Mom's Basement"

 

[RandFan]

Wait a minute! Didn't you say she didn't have a mortgage?

She took out a loan against her equity. Sheesh.

Don't look now, your pants are burning.

Couldn't even wait for an answer. Don't look now but you are being smarmy and arrogant.

 

[Stout]

Nope, fallacy by definition. It would be great as an example. I always love it when people take an obvious and ourtright fallacy and try to justify it. Sorry Stout but it couldn't be a more clear example. BTW: A fallacy of consolation IS A COMPARISON OF PERSONAL SITUATIONS.

That's not what i got when I went and looked it up, I got "it could have been much worse" like your mother not only lost her home but she's lucky she wasn't was forcibly evicted in the middle of the night and had all her personal possessions seized as well. That sort of thing. but hey, if a comparison of personal situations is off limits then the guy who wrote that list of fallacies deserves a good slap upside the head for hindering meaningful discourse.

The failure of the stock market to produce and the devaluation of her pensions due to the housing market collapse kept her from being able to stay in her home and meet bills like mortgage and utilities. Her best bet was to cut her loses and move in with my sister. BTW My plan was for her to stick it out and I argued with everyone. The math is beginning to look like I was wrong.

OK, gotcha. She still had a monthly commitment. I was just assuming that if i could dump a hundred grand into rent in 10 years, she could have been mortgage free in twice the time. I would have said the same thing, stick it out however after my meeting with my financial advisor yesterday, I would have been wrong as well.

At the risk of committing another one of these fallacies I'll add this is my pension I'm dealing with, my future and i was half thinking about pulling the whole lot out and sticking it in a high interest savings account and sucking up the 1.5% that I know I'll get. At least it would be safe from further losses. He talked me into waiting it out for another year.

Hopefully we will restore sanity to our policies and regulations and stop letting the fox guard the hen house.

Hopefully... There's always the option of investing outside the country, they'll let the American industry know the middle class means business. I hope OWS pull it off but I'm skeptical that the rich are just going to laugh them off as a bunch of disaffected youth looking to get out of their student loans.