Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Ammonitida]

That's right. No one in Italy will ever get a dime out of the Knoxes.

They don't deserve a dime, especially that liar Lumumba who withheld information vital to Knox's defense. I hope Hoyle made a recording of that interview and the defense gets access to it.

 

[Rolfe]

They should have occurred in several tests, not just in the low copy amounts. There is no rule about contamination being a phenomenon caused only by low copy amounts in the environment that turn out only when enhanced search protocols are applied. Either there are sources that produce contamination - causing this contamination to leave small traces, at least few drop-in alleles even before enhancing the search - or there aren't.

You know, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Rolfe.

 

[Machiavelli]

Oh. So where is the documentation of the PCR quantifictaion that yielded "several hundred picograms" for the critical knife track B?

It does not exist. Stefanoni lied about finding "several hundred picograms" via PCR quantification.

Stefanoni said she thought she recalled of hundreds picograms (not "several") and it was during a preliminary hearing. Then stated it could be a low copy number.
And this, to me, means nothing.
If you think that this lie is malicious, my answer is that this "malice", besides unproven, is irrelevant to me, it does not make the defendant become innocent and does not invalidate anything about DNA findings. This is not a trial about Stefanoni's charachter or way of talking to the preliminary judge. This is about her data, which are consistent, correct, and true, and she answered truthfuly and correctly about all of them.

 

[RoseMontague]

Oh. So where is the documentation of the PCR quantifictaion that yielded "several hundred picograms" for the critical knife track B?

It does not exist. Stefanoni lied about finding "several hundred picograms" via PCR quantification.

Yes, she was trying to hide her funny business with the testing of this knife blade and the LCN nature of that testing. Half way through the main trial before that was found out.

 

[Machiavelli]

You know, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Rolfe.

I have an idea. And Stefanoni also had the same idea. If she didn't detect a drop-in allele from the beginning she wouldn't even have searched to enhance and concentrate to find Meredith' profile.

 

[Diocletus]

Why is it that in twenty floor samples this does not pop out?

It does. There is blood and DNA all over the place. Who knows where it came from. Probably Batistelli made the footprints.

Anyway, these bumbling cops couldn't find a clue if they had a map to it. They didn't even find Knox's DNA in her own room. LOL.

Nonsense. The prosecutor has no control of the "ship". Not in the Italian system. Hundreds of lawyers are entitled to access the evidence.

That surprises me, because we all know that the prosecution withheld, e.g., the electronic data files, from the defense. Howcome the defense doesn't get to see exculpatory evidence if all these other hundreds of lawyers get see everything.

 

[Machiavelli]

My prediction is that Amanda will never again set foot in an Italian jail. Let me know when I am proven wrong, will you?

How about that cite on the computers I asked for?

I have no prediction about Amanda's possible jail whereabouts, but frankly I don't care about where Amanda is. That's not a topic of concern to me.
I pursue justice, and justice to me is a concept that does not depend on where Amanda is.

 

[Poppy1016]

Machiavelli,
Do you presume to be more informed then Hellman and C&V?
Do you think they are liars? Face it you backed the wrong horse and just like your buddy Pignini, you are trying to save face. You also support Stephony, Commode, and the lying police. Please excuse any mispellings on my part.

 

[Diocletus]

They should have occurred in several tests, not just in the low copy amounts. There is no rule about contamination being a phenomenon caused only by low copy amounts in the environment that turn out only when enhanced search protocols are applied. Either there are sources that produce contamination - causing this contamination to leave small traces, at least few drop-in alleles even before enhancing the search - or there aren't.

The low copy contamination could easily be invisible as noise in the "high copy" number tests. Since Stefanoni never looked for LCN Meredith alleles in any other sample, no one can know if they were there or not.

 

[Ammonitida]

Knox and Sollecito are guilty. This can be proven and will be. I don't know if in a courtroom, but could well be in a courtroom.

Reminds me of your other delusional comment, "I am right and I will win".

You are wrong and you have already lost. The guilter's sad crusade to destroy an innocent woman has ended in failure. I know it stings.

 

[Machiavelli]

It does. There is blood and DNA all over the place. Who knows where it came from. Probably Batistelli made the footprints.

There is absoultely not "blood and DNA all around the place".

Anyway, these bumbling cops couldn't find a clue if they had a map to it. They didn't even find Knox's DNA in her own room. LOL.

"these bumbling cops" is not a person. You are talking about inspector Battistelli, an inspector of the postal police, or what?

That surprises me, because we all know that the prosecution withheld, e.g., the electronic data files, from the defense. Howcome the defense doesn't get to see exculpatory evidence if all these other hundreds of lawyers get see everything.

The electronic data file were not depositated, and they were totally useless to Vecchiotti and Conti (as they acknowledge, also esplicitely, in their report) because they rendered identical data to what is reported in Stefanni's report. All evidence that is depositated is accessed by lawyers. Amanda's diaries are very easy to access kind of evidence.
If you still think the prosecution "leaked" information (what?) to "prejudice" (?) the defendants, this just shows you don't have the palest idea about Italy, its justice system, society and media. The Procura never has an interest in spreading tabloid-like gossips. They do not want media attention on their suspects, never.

 

[Diocletus]

Stefanoni said she thought she recalled of hundreds picograms (not "several") and it was during a preliminary hearing.

Oh. Then I guess she just lied preliminarily.

Then she tried to hide the evidence of her lies.

 

[RoseMontague]

The low copy contamination could easily be invisible as noise in the "high copy" number tests. Since Stefanoni never looked for LCN Meredith alleles in any other sample, no one can know if they were there or not.

Exactly. Stefanoni followed protocol on the rest of the samples she got a too low reading on. This one she handled differently. I wonder why?

 

[Machiavelli]

Reminds me of your other delusional comment, "I am right and I will win".

You are wrong and you have already lost. The guilter's sad crusade to destroy an innocent woman has ended in failure. I know it stings.

What innocent woman?
The only innocent woman in this story was already dead while her roommate decided - by her words - that her priority was to bring a mop to another part of the city.
You seem have no idea of what a crusade is nor what a fight for justice is along the standard of Italian history. It took thirty years to establish a partial truth in the Ustica massacre. The same in many other crimes. You say "stings" to people who fight for justice in very different terms. You think I consider a this a "failure"? You don't have an idea of what my terms of comparisons are. If you hope Amanda will stop being called a murderer, you dream.

 

[RoseMontague]

They do not want media attention on their suspects, never.

Just wanted to highlight this one. It's a keeper.

 

[Ammonitida]

Oh. Then I guess she just lied preliminarily.

Then she tried to hide the evidence of her lies.

She also tried to pass off the other alleles on the bra clasp as "stutters" when many were not in stutter position.

 

[Machiavelli]

Exactly. Stefanoni followed protocol on the rest of the samples she got a too low reading on. This one she handled differently. I wonder why?

Because something was already detectable. Look in her final profile there are peaks as high as 120 RFU.

 

[charlatan]

Instead, it was Sollecito who lied, as he told (twice) to the Carabinieri that "nothing had been stolen" and "there was no theft". How can you guess something like that? And some minutes later, he told quite the opposite to the postal police, as he acted as he was surprised to discovr that nothing had been stolen.

What lie? Raf stated in his 112 calls that nothing had been taken. He stated to the Postal Police that nothing had been taken. It may have been an erroneous assumption but it was not completely unreasonable given that obviously valuable items were left undisturbed at the scene. Even Massei doesn't call Raf's statement a lie -- in fact he argues the exact opposite, that only Raf could have known the truth that no valuables (outside of Mez's room) were taken.

But so what? Massei's feeble hand-waving aside, it makes absolutely no sense to stage a burglary and then claim nothing was taken. Raf's statements about the break-in are evidence of his innocence.

 

[Machiavelli]

Oh. Then I guess she just lied preliminarily.

Then she tried to hide the evidence of her lies.

Absolutely not, she provided all data when she was requested to do so by the prosecution, as the prosecution accepted to provide all their data, they just said "yes".

 

[Diocletus]

There is absoultely not "blood and DNA all around the place".

Well, it there was after the cops got finished with the place.

"these bumbling cops" is not a person. You are talking about inspector Battistelli, an inspector of the postal police, or what?

He is certainly a bumbler. But I'm really talking about the whole crowd of idiots who don't know how to investigate a crime scene and made the everyone in court laugh at their incompetence.

The electronic data file were not depositated, and they were totally useless to Vecchiotti and Conti (as they acknowledge, also esplicitely, in their report) because they rendered identical data to what is reported in Stefanni's report. All evidence that is depositated is accessed by lawyers. Amanda's diaries are very easy to access kind of evidence.

Whether or not you think they were "useless" the defense disagreed and had a right to see them. While we're on the subject, what ever happened to the electropherograms that were run in November and December 2007? The ones that Stefanoni provided to the court, experts and defense were dated 2008. Where are the originals?

If you still think the prosecution "leaked" information (what?) to "prejudice" (?) the defendants, this just shows you don't have the palest idea about Italy, its justice system, society and media. The Procura never has an interest in spreading tabloid-like gossips. They do not want media attention on their suspects, never.

This is a lie. If it were true, then the Procura would have investigated and stopped the leaks. They didn't because they hoped the lies would prejudice the defendants. The Procura was hopelessly biased in this case. Anyway, I don't care about Italy, its justice system, society and media. I seek only justice.