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Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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They absolutely never happened. On some this can be proven as obvious: for example, that Guede was not able to answer on the meaning of words he used in his letter is obviously false, you would never think that if you just look at the video recording of his testimony.

And what about the she devil of Perugia, prosecutor Commodi? ;)
Her comments about an ill wind blowing in this case, or her trick with the documents that magically found their way to the court, when actually they never were submitted? There's plenty of it and one silly "Guede explanation" isn't enough to wipe out the absolutely terrible picture that the prosecution painted of themselves.

However, as I've said earlier, there will be no actions taken against them. Not beacuse they didn't do anything wrong, but beacuse no one, after the not guilty verdicts, want to deal with this case again.
 
They absolutely never happened. On some this can be proven as obvious: for example, that Guede was not able to answer on the meaning of words he used in his letter is obviously false, you would never think that if you just look at the video recording of his testimony.

He does have a great larger point though. Watching you argue reminds me of watching the truthers argue..... Or better yet, reminds me of the time I let the Jehovah's come in and I decided to argue with them.... Huge mistake.

Just stop and think how stupid your position is for a moment.... Your theory and those involved is probably unprecedented for the world. When there is. Perfectly logical explanation right under your nose. Stop trying to save face for Italy..... You're wrong.
 
He does have a great larger point though. Watching you argue reminds me of watching the truthers argue..... Or better yet, reminds me of the time I let the Jehovah's come in and I decided to argue with them.... Huge mistake.

Just stop and think how stupid your position is for a moment.... Your theory and those involved is probably unprecedented for the world. When there is. Perfectly logical explanation right under your nose. Stop trying to save face for Italy..... You're wrong.

C'me on prove it. Prove its' true that Guede was unable to answer questions about his letter. Link the video and show us.
 
Well, Stefanoni lied about the negative TMB results.

Not as far as I know. Massei's court became acknowledged about the TMB tests as Stefanoni spoke about them. It was Stefanoni who brought them in, she reported them and then answered questions on them

Also, Stefanoni lied about the PCR quantification and doing negative control tests.

Absolutely not, for what concerns negative tests. It is instead Vecchiotti who lied: the whole Vecchiotti / Conti argument about the knife hinges on the allegged lack of negative controls. Vecchiotti and Conti asserted the negative controls were not done. And this is false. The negative controls were done. Their argument about contamination is based in a great part abput this lie.
The fact that negative controls did exist, and thus Vecchiotti's assumption was false, was implicitly acknowledged by Hellmann's court, as they refused to admit the negative controls with a peculiar motivation: because after all they were not necessary, since a contamination could have occurred outside the laboratory.
For what concerns PCR quantification, again this is a myth, it is mystified both by the defense and then by Vecchiotti and Conti themselves.
In fact, there is no lie about PCR quantification in Stefanoni's report. There is not a single lie in her report, not a single false datum. All her data are identical to the one found in the C&V report.
In Stefanoni's questioning of 2008 - not that one before Massei's court, but a previous one before the preliminary judge - Stefanoni said she did not recall the amount of DNA on the knife, she said she *thought*it could be - highlight the concept "she thought", as far as she remembered - that could be of the kind of hundreds picograms. But Stefanoni also said "it could be a low copy number", and when asked when do you start considering a peak "low" she said "I start to be more careful in interpretation when peaks are below 50 RFU".
Vecchiotti considers inadmissible itself the presence of alleles below 50 RFU. Which is absurd compared to the standards of Carabinieri's RIS laboratory, for example, who only consider low a peak below 35.
Stefanoni also stated she did not recall the datum about the quantification of the bra clasp DNA. She stated before Micheli and in one occasion before Massei’s court that she did not have the records with the quantification data with her. She never provided false data.

The cops lied about getting to the house before Raf called 112.

"The cops" is not a person. When I have a "lie", I need to have a person.
I see no logical reason to think any of the postal police lied. The postal police said they arrived at a certain time, and obviously they just could not know if they had called the Carabinieri before, so how can they lie about something they don't know? Maybe the time written in their report was wrong. Maybe.
Instead, it was Sollecito who lied, as he told (twice) to the Carabinieri that "nothing had been stolen" and "there was no theft". How can you guess something like that? And some minutes later, he told quite the opposite to the postal police, as he acted as he was surprised to discovr that nothing had been stolen.

Also, the cops lied about not going into the murder room.

Again "the cops" is not a person. There is a contradiction about the number of steps made in the room, between the testimonies of Luca Altieri and that of Postal Police inspector Battistelli. Hardly the trial will depend on the steps made by Battistelli in the room.

I'm not sure that Mignini and Comodi lied (although Comodi very well could have been complicit in the Stefanoni lies and Mignini could very well be lying about the interrogation). They did, however, engage in serious unethical behavior: they failed to disclose exclupatory evidence, were biased in their prosecution, made prejudicial statements with no basis in evidence, and were responsible for false, prejudicial "leaks" (lies) to the presss.

Absolutely not. "were responsible of" leaks is an ambiguous and false concept: there have been leaks, but there is no element nor logical reason tu suspect about the prosecution, and they are irrelevant to the case.
Hardly I can see anything "prejudicial" or unethical in their statements.
On the other hands I've heard a unethical reports in the US media reporting false claim and statements about them.

So, obviously, people should be charged with wrongdoing. Unfortunately, it appears that Italy has no system in place for correcting such abuses by authorities.

We are watching different movies. There is no wrongdoing nor abuses. There is plenty of authorities who go after abuses, but there is just no abuse here to check.
There is not even an "innocent" Amanda Knox by the way: she was in the right place for three years, and was the one condemned to pay the trial expenses, by now she owes 40.000 euros to Lumumba and more to the Italian state.
 
And what about the she devil of Perugia, prosecutor Commodi? ;)
Her comments about an ill wind blowing in this case, or her trick with the documents that magically found their way to the court, when actually they never were submitted? There's plenty of it and one silly "Guede explanation" isn't enough to wipe out the absolutely terrible picture that the prosecution painted of themselves.

However, as I've said earlier, there will be no actions taken against them. Not beacuse they didn't do anything wrong, but beacuse no one, after the not guilty verdicts, want to deal with this case again.

I've never heard those comments in Italian. I just guess she never said this statements as some English media reported them, I think they twisted them in translation like many others. But it's just a guess. I don't know what she said because I've never heared her making these comments in Italian.

The "documents never submitted" is again one of those rumors that some professionals PR defence liars like to spread. I was there when the chanceller accepted the documents, those which I think you address.
On the other hand, there were also defence rejected documents that "magically made their way to the court", they happened to appear in the trial file even if they were rejected. Nobody mae a big deal of them: just the same error, they were given back. Among them there was the update on computer data report.
 
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Nice double speak. No substance but lots of this and that and the other thing. Lots of inconsistencies too. I don't know why any one goes on and on about Amanda's inconsistencies, when they do the same thing.

Dave
 
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Nice double speak. No substance but lots of this and that and the other thing. Lots of inconsistencies too. I don't know why any one goes on and on about Amanda's inconsistencies, when they do the same thing.

Dave

You are talking of those who assert "abuses" with no argument?

Or those who openly state they believe false things?
look at this video:

http://youtu.be/GSHrTbD0xis//

Guede answers correctly to the question on the meaning of words in his letter, at 27:30.
 
Absolutely not, for what concerns negative tests. It is instead Vecchiotti who lied: the whole Vecchiotti / Conti argument about the knife hinges on the allegged lack of negative controls. Vecchiotti and Conti asserted the negative controls were not done. And this is false. The negative controls were done. Their argument about contamination is based in a great part abput this lie.
The fact that negative controls did exist, and thus Vecchiotti's assumption was false, was implicitly acknowledged by Hellmann's court, as they refused to admit the negative controls with a peculiar motivation: because after all they were not necessary, since a contamination could have occurred outside the laboratory.

Oh really? The negative controls exist? Then why was Comodi so interested in establishing that there was a six-day delay that served as the negative control? Where are the negative control documents? Do you think that the alleged negative controls were run for the qubit flourometer?


In Stefanoni's questioning of 2008 - not that one before Massei's court, but a previous one before the preliminary judge - Stefanoni said she did not recall the amount of DNA on the knife, she said she *thought*it could be - highlight the concept "she thought", as far as she remembered - that could be of the kind of hundreds picograms.

She thought wrong. And she testified falsely. In fact, she didn't even do a PCR quantification, so the testimony was made up out of thin air. The only data she had was a qubit flourometer reading that told her that there was insufficient DNA to quantify. She did not have a PCR reading that said "several hundred picograms." She lied.
 
Take heart, maybe the cops feel the same way, Mignini and Stefi are not suspected of anything. This way when they are taken in for questioning for this non-suspicious activity the cops are free to slap them around a bit. I can't wait to see Mignini's 3AM spontaneous statement.

If you go on dreaming and making jokes, you can invent everything. If you just look at what Knox actually did and at the evidence of it, you will have a conviction for calunnia (and hopefully for murder).
 
If you go on dreaming and making jokes, you can invent everything. If you just look at what Knox actually did and at the evidence of it, you will have a conviction for calunnia (and hopefully for murder).

Keep clinging to the calumnia charge if you like, Machiavelli. It is all you have left. We both know Amanda will never set foot in an Italian jail again.

You were wrong when you said the judge would not allow additional testing and you were wrong on how the appeal would turn out. You are also wrong on your opinion that Raffaele and the Knox girl are guilty.

One Italian that got things right and that was Frank (the one you refuse to read). LOL. Go figure. I like the way Frank put it:

KNOX ARRESTED FOR NOTHING, PROSECUTED FOR A KNIFE ON WHICH THERE WAS NOTHING, FOR A ROOM IN WHICH THERE WAS NOTHING, FOR A MOTIVE THAT WAS NOTHING
 
Oh really? The negative controls exist? Then why was Comodi so interested in establishing that there was a six-day delay that served as the negative control? Where are the negative control documents? Do you think that the alleged negative controls were run for the qubit flourometer?

Yes they really do exist. And they were made also *before* the test. The 6 days gap does not serve as a substitute for negative controls, it is a furhter corroboration that contamination never took place. Because more than a hundred tests were made in the room during those 6 days, and if there is a mean of contamination in the environment this does not occurr just in one isolated test in low copy amount.

She thought wrong. And she testified falsely.

She did not testify falsely. And she is allowed to think wrong. The submitting of false data consists, well, in submitting false data to the court. In nothing else. When she submitted data, she submitted the unaltered correct ones. And that was, by the way, a different court.
In my opinion, clinging ot this "error" or "lie" of Stefanoni shows the weakness of your argument.

In fact, she didn't even do a PCR quantification, so the testimony was made up out of thin air.

She did make a quantification. And she gave correct documentation of all her quantifications (3 made by Q-bif fluorimeter and 4 through a different PCR equipment on another day) when she was asked to do so by the court.

The only data she had was a qubit flourometer reading that told her that there was insufficient DNA to quantify. She did not have a PCR reading that said "several hundred picograms." She lied.

You are allowed to think that she "lied" only because she did not mention a Q-bit fluorimeter, but I am allowed to consider that instead she provided all her data and they were truthful, correct and unaltered. I will not consider in any wat a lack of specifying a Qbit/PCR question to a preliminary judge as a point to claim contamination, abuse, wrongdoing, even less a defendant's innocence. To think that the expert is conspiring or the defendant is innocent because she didn't tell about her Qbit method in the preliminary hearing, is absurd.
 
If you go on dreaming...you can invent everything.

Is there an irony smiley?

If you just look at what Knox actually did and at the evidence of it, you will have a conviction for calunnia (and hopefully for murder).

Someone once said that if you go on dreaming, you can invent anything. And then he proved it.
 
Keep clinging to the calumnia charge if you like, Machiavelli. It is all you have left. We both know Amanda will never set foot in an Italian jail again.

You were wrong when you said the judge would not allow additional testing and you were wrong on how the appeal would turn out. You are also wrong on your opinion that Raffaele and the Knox girl are guilty.

One Italian that got things right and that was Frank (the one you refuse to read). LOL. Go figure. I like the way Frank put it:

You keep clinging to my two - if not only one - wrong, probabilistic, predictions. To assert that I am "wrong". You magically cancel all the dozens of points of knowledge - not mere prediction - where I just proved right. You have a very simplified memory. Do you know what the people on the innocentisti forums predicted about the preliminary hearings? And about the first trial? Do you recall that I predicted exactly the outcome (even the number of years of jail time)?
I think you forgot the huge - overwhelming, total - load of information on which I am right, which is not made of bets.
Knox and Sollecito are guilty. This can be proven and will be. I don't know if in a courtroom, but could well be in a courtroom.
 
Again "the cops" is not a person. There is a contradiction about the number of steps made in the room, between the testimonies of Luca Altieri and that of Postal Police inspector Battistelli.

Exactly. And this "contradiction" is the difference between the truth and a lie.

Hardly the trial will depend on the steps made by Battistelli in the room.

No? What if the bumbling postal cop tracked blood and DNA all over the place after he walked through the room?


Absolutely not. "were responsible of" leaks is an ambiguous and false concept: there have been leaks, but there is no element nor logical reason tu suspect about the prosecution, and they are irrelevant to the case.
Hardly I can see anything "prejudicial" or unethical in their statements.

Mignini was captain of the ship. He is responsible for the leaks. The leaks were lies. They were meant to prejudice the defendants. He also made up garbage--sex game gone wrong? Puhlease.


There is not even an "innocent" Amanda Knox by the way: she was in the right place for three years, and was the one condemned to pay the trial expenses, by now she owes 40.000 euros to Lumumba and more to the Italian state.

LOL. She owes them money for what? The privilege of getting hit by the police? Anyway, good luck collecting the money.
 
You keep clinging to my two - if not only one - wrong, probabilistic, predictions. To assert that I am "wrong". You magically cancel all the dozens of points of knowledge - not mere prediction - where I just proved right. You have a very simplified memory. Do you know what the people on the innocentisti forums predicted about the preliminary hearings? And about the first trial? Do you recall that I predicted exactly the outcome (even the number of years of jail time)?
I think you forgot the huge - overwhelming, total - load of information on which I am right, which is not made of bets.
Knox and Sollecito are guilty. This can be proven and will be. I don't know if in a courtroom, but could well be in a courtroom.

My prediction is that Amanda will never again set foot in an Italian jail. Let me know when I am proven wrong, will you?

How about that cite on the computers I asked for?
 
Yes they really do exist. And they were made also *before* the test. The 6 days gap does not serve as a substitute for negative controls, it is a furhter corroboration that contamination never took place. Because more than a hundred tests were made in the room during those 6 days, and if there is a mean of contamination in the environment this does not occurr just in one isolated test in low copy amount.

Then are you suggesting that it should have occurred in all of the other tests that they did in similar low copy amounts? But there weren't any. So what you say is wrong.
 
Exactly. And this "contradiction" is the difference between the truth and a lie.

No? What if the bumbling postal cop tracked blood and DNA all over the place after he walked through the room?

The DNA of whom? And where is this DNA found "all over the place"? All over the place? Why is it that in twenty floor samples this does not pop out?


Mignini was captain of the ship. He is responsible for the leaks. The leaks were lies. They were meant to prejudice the defendants. He also made up garbage--sex game gone wrong? Puhlease.

Nonsense. The prosecutor has no control of the "ship". Not in the Italian system. Hundreds of lawyers are entitled to access the evidence. What if Pacelli leaks Amanda's diaries? And even the police legally is not under the responsibility of Mignini.
They meant to prejudice the defendants? Ridiculous. You don't even grasp how ridiculous this is during an investigation. Only lawyers of parties, defendants and above all journalists may have little interest in spreading rumors.

LOL. She owes them money for what? The privilege of getting hit by the police? Anyway, good luck collecting the money.

I'm pretty sure she is not only a liar calunniatrix and a murderer, but also a thief. I guess I will have to call her thief too.
 
She did make a quantification. And she gave correct documentation of all her quantifications (3 made by Q-bif fluorimeter and 4 through a different PCR equipment on another day) when she was asked to do so by the court.

Oh. So where is the documentation of the PCR quantifictaion that yielded "several hundred picograms" for the critical knife track B?

It does not exist. Stefanoni lied about finding "several hundred picograms" via PCR quantification.
 
Then are you suggesting that it should have occurred in all of the other tests that they did in similar low copy amounts? But there weren't any. So what you say is wrong.

They should have occurred in several tests, not just in the low copy amounts. There is no rule about contamination being a phenomenon caused only by low copy amounts in the environment that turn out only when enhanced search protocols are applied. Either there are sources that produce contamination - causing this contamination to leave small traces, at least few drop-in alleles even before enhancing the search - or there aren't.
 
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