Merged So there was melted steel

Miragememories said:
I can only assume you are talking to your mirror.

MM
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Why not try answering the question like an ADULT rather than continue your childish "I'm not listening" crap?

Your painted on thermetic material ignited in a massive fireball, and massive multi-story office fire. Fine. You win ---

ONLY if you can then explain how the towers stood for an hour.

I'll not hold my breath waiting for you to reply, kid.
 
NoahFence said:
ONLY if you can then explain how the towers stood for an hour.
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Well, the massive office fires heated the steel until it could no longer support the weight above it, causing the building to fail at the plane impact point...uh, I mean the point of the thermite explosions...and caused a progressive...

oh. Wait. Never mind.
 
Well, given that the super-nano-thermite ignites at a mere 430°C I'm guessing that the perps knew this and arranged for the thermite delivery systems to be immune from the effects of violent office fires of the kind that are set by fully-fuelled planes crashing into buildings, and, errrr .... um, so they made the thermite delivery vessels really strong to survive the impacts and really well insulated to survive the ensuing fires and ... and ... they found somewhere to put these massive well-insulated delivery vessels all over the damn place where nobody could see them and were sure their remains would never be detected in the debris, even when the debris was eventually sorted by hand to the extent that personal keys were recovered ... and ...

I'm sure there's something wrong with this theory, but can't quite put my finger on it.

Perhaps Bill Smith was right and they just stuffed vast amounts of thermite down the box columns and waited for them to get up to 430C? Ah, but wait, the box columns were hollow all the way to the bottom so that wouldn't work. Dang.
 
GlennB said:
Well, given that the super-nano-thermite ignites at a mere 430°C I'm guessing that the perps knew this and arranged for the thermite delivery systems to be immune from the effects of violent office fires of the kind that are set by fully-fuelled planes crashing into buildings, and, errrr .... um, so they made the thermite delivery vessels really strong to survive the impacts and really well insulated to survive the ensuing fires and ... and ... they found somewhere to put these massive well-insulated delivery vessels all over the damn place where nobody could see them and were sure their remains would never be detected in the debris, even when the debris was eventually sorted by hand to the extent that personal keys were recovered ... and ...

I'm sure there's something wrong with this theory, but can't quite put my finger on it.

Perhaps Bill Smith was right and they just stuffed vast amounts of thermite down the box columns and waited for them to get up to 430C? Ah, but wait, the box columns were hollow all the way to the bottom so that wouldn't work. Dang.
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Would it not have been easier just to crash planes into the buildings?
 
GlennB said:
"On the basis of a study that failed to perform such utterly fundamental tests as igniting the chips in an inert atmosphere and analysing for compounds (to name but two) you are nailing your colours to a very rickety mast indeed. Yet you claim these things are "known" ?

I haven't the stomach to address the rest of your semi-coherent rant (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7678955&postcount=1333),
so I'll just bid you adieu."
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Meanwhile you continue your own rant which I guess in all fairness, I should be ignore in kind.

GlennB said:
"Well, given that the super-nano-thermite ignites at a mere 430°C I'm guessing that the perps knew this and arranged for the thermite delivery systems to be immune from the effects of violent office fires of the kind that are set by fully-fuelled planes crashing into buildings, and, errrr .... um, so they made the thermite delivery vessels really strong to survive the impacts and really well insulated to survive the ensuing fires and ... and ... they found somewhere to put these massive well-insulated delivery vessels all over the damn place where nobody could see them and were sure their remains would never be detected in the debris, even when the debris was eventually sorted by hand to the extent that personal keys were recovered ... and ...

I'm sure there's something wrong with this theory, but can't quite put my finger on it.

Perhaps Bill Smith was right and they just stuffed vast amounts of thermite down the box columns and waited for them to get up to 430C? Ah, but wait, the box columns were hollow all the way to the bottom so that wouldn't work. Dang."
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adieu Glenn.

MM
 
Miragememories said:
It is difficult to find things you are not looking for.

MM
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As usual, it's a good thing science doesn't work the way Twoofer's think it does!

I normally would have Stundied that. However, another "genius" said the same thing months ago, and it made it then. I think?
 
Miragememories said:
It is difficult to find things you are not looking for.

MM
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Really? people do just that all the time. In fact many of the major breakthroughs came from accidental discoveries.

Xrays for example.

And the other day someone out walking their dog in my county found a body. Pretty sure they were not looking for one.:rolleyes:
 
Well actually, studies like RJ Lee that catalogue the materials they find in a mixed bag of dust would never report thermite. Thermite is not a substance, it's a composite. They might report iron oxide, and aluminium, but since everything was mixed, nobody would call it "thermite" if they found both substances in the same sample. And rightly so. Of course in any sample of crushed building materials you will find "thermite" along with everything else.


ETA 1 - This means:
  • Yes, even if there was thermite, they would not report it, as they weren't looking for it
  • But even if they were looking for thermite and there wasn't any, they would report it, if finding some iron oxide and some Al is equated with "thermite".

ETA 2
Did they look for, or report, paint?
 
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Miragememories said:
It is difficult to find things you are not looking for.

MM
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:sdl:

Dog Town said:
As usual, it's a good thing science doesn't work the way Twoofer's think it does!

I normally would have Stundied that. However, another "genius" said the same thing months ago, and it made it then. I think?
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I think that the stundie said it was "impossible" to find something you weren't looking for.


PS - Hey look a penny on the ground!
 
Out of interest, the Lioy study found Al levels of ~800,000 ng/gm or 0.08% by weight in the dust samples. For reference, a selection of metals in the dust (though not necessarily elemental) included:

Aluminium ~ 800,000 ng/gm
Strontium ~600,000 ng/gm
Titanium ~ 1,600,000 ng/gm
Manganese ~ 700,000 ng/gm
Lead ~ 300,000 ng/gm

In other words, if there was in fact any unspent aluminothermic material in the dust its action on subsequent ignition in the debris pile would be utterly swamped by the sheer mass of other material. My sake-of-argument allowance of 5% by weight, earlier in the discussion, was meant to be over-generous. In fact it was insanely high, especially given that much of the Al detected would be from naturally occuring compounds.

Although Lioy et al. didn't go looking for thermite, their figures comfortably allow us to rule it out as a source for molten steel in the debris.
 
GlennB said:
Out of interest, the Lioy study found Al levels of ~800,000 ng/gm or 0.08% by weight in the dust samples. For reference, a selection of metals in the dust (though not necessarily elemental) included:

Aluminium ~ 800,000 ng/gm
Strontium ~600,000 ng/gm
Titanium ~ 1,600,000 ng/gm
Manganese ~ 700,000 ng/gm
Lead ~ 300,000 ng/gm

In other words, if there was in fact any unspent aluminothermic material in the dust its action on subsequent ignition in the debris pile would be utterly swamped by the sheer mass of other material. My sake-of-argument allowance of 5% by weight, earlier in the discussion, was meant to be over-generous. In fact it was insanely high, especially given that much of the Al detected would be from naturally occuring compounds.

Although Lioy et al. didn't go looking for thermite, their figures comfortably allow us to rule it out as a source for molten steel in the debris.
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Glad to hear you are comfortable Glenn.

Based on your current favorite comfort stats, I guess you can blindly accept there were no red chips at all in the dust, especially since Lioy et al as you say, "didn't go looking...".

MM
 
Miragememories said:
Glad to hear you are comfortable Glenn.

Based on your current favorite comfort stats, I guess you can blindly accept there were no red chips at all in the dust, especially since Lioy et al as you say, "didn't go looking...".

MM
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Probably lots of red chips in the dust as the primer paint on all the steel was red. Why would anyone blindly accept that there was no paint? Jones proved it wasn't thermite (nice of him, don't you think)) so why do you feel the red chips are of interest at all?
 
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