Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Grinder]

He is not happy at all. He will not stay alone in jail if the other two walk. By now he has to wait, but he is going to make a move later on. Either he will ask for a new trial, or he will release a testimony against the other two. Or both in the order.

Nothing would be better for R and A than having the ability to cross examine Rudy. If they sue him for slander and false denunciation would they get a seat at his next trial just like the Kerchers?

If anybody but Mignini were to go after him in a serious way, he will crumble.

ETA - How can he release testimony after they are pronounced innocent by the Cassazione?

 

[GreyFox]

How aggressive do you think the prosecution would go after him if he were to ask for another ? As hard as they could seeing as how he is the only one left or more of the same ?

 

[Grinder]

Mach,

Perhaps you could explain why people over at P** think that Koko or someone else would have to leave DNA in Meredith's room but Raffaele and Amanda wouldn't.

 

[smkovalinksy]

Mach,

Perhaps you could explain why people over at P** think that Koko or someone else would have to leave DNA in Meredith's room but Raffaele and Amanda wouldn't.

That is a very good question. I would also love to hear the answer to that.

 

[Machiavelli]

At the trial against Knox and Sollecito he gave false testimony, accusing two innocent people of being at the scene of the crime, involved in murder, when in fact they were not. Shouldn't Guede be convicted of Calunnia for this?

How do you know that was a false testimony?
Nobody ever established it was false.
Moreover Rudy was legitimized in his claim by the Supreme Court. He did not claim anythig different from what officially established.

 

[Ammonitida]

Mach,

Perhaps you could explain why people over at P** think that Koko or someone else would have to leave DNA in Meredith's room but Raffaele and Amanda wouldn't.

The prosecution doesn't need his DNA, just an ink print of his foot. There was an ambiguous print on a fluffy surface in the bathroom that could be "matched" to many depending on how one interprets the blood drops that blended in with the stain. They could even hire some of the amateur, guilter footprint experts like "Kermit" to give some new measurements.

 

[GreyFox]

I know the semen stain was never tested but was it ever collected ? Just in case ? Rudy acts like he never finished business because his bowel movement got the best of him overriding his desire to finish what he started. I don't recall reading anywhere that he admits the semen stain on the pillow is his, just that he had sex with the victim.

 

[Ammonitida]

Perhaps you could explain why people over at P** think that Koko or someone else would have to leave DNA in Meredith's room but Raffaele and Amanda wouldn't.

Wrong. There was DNA of Raff on the bra clasp along with the DNA of two other males because of "funny business" at the polizia HQ.

 

[Paninaro]

__________________

Paninaro,

Well, did Antonia Hoyle say what sort of records she has to prove that Patrick said this? Written notes or audio tapes?

It occurs to me that if Patrick was physically abused by the same---or some of the same---cops that molested Amanda on the morning of November 6, 2007, and if that abuse can be substantiated, Amanda will have strong grounds for her appeal of her calunnia conviction. In the USA an appeal court can throw out a conviction when fresh, pertinent, and credible evidence emerges.


///

No, I just sent Hoyle an e-mail, which she was kind enough to answer, but she just confirmed that Lumumba had told her what was in the interview. Well, she must confirm it I guess, but never the less. Anyone can try to get her to reveal more details. I don't think she will let us look at her working material, anyway.

I agree with you that if Lumumba was abused by the police, this would show that Knox's story is probably true. Knox's lawyers maybe should try to get Lumumba to appear under oath and tell the truth?

 

[Paninaro]

How do you know that was a false testimony?
Nobody ever established it was false.
Moreover Rudy was legitimized in his claim by the Supreme Court. He did not claim anythig different from what officially established.

We can't know that of course. But say that Knox and Sollecito will eventually be acquitted by the supreme court and that the verdict is according to 530.1.

Under those circumstances, could Guede be convicted of Calunnia against Knox and Sollecito for what he said in court?

 

[Machiavelli]

Mach,

Perhaps you could explain why people over at P** think that Koko or someone else would have to leave DNA in Meredith's room but Raffaele and Amanda wouldn't.

I don't know what they think, but by my understanding Raffaele Sollecito did leave his DNA in the murder room. And I've read the whole Vecchiotti/Conti report.
He did also leave his footprint in blood, by the way.
Four DNA traces of Rudy were found in Meredith's room. One of Raffaele Sollecito. None was found of Amanda, but I am wary about those numbers, because sampling follows a method itself selective. Nobody will know, for example, who was the owner of the long straigth light coloured hair, nor who had grabbed the victim's hir or who covered her mouth: no male DNA could be recovered from those areas. Often you need a Y-haplotype to spot DNA on a victim's body.
On the other hand, I can note that a mixed luminol trace with DNA of Knox and Meredith was found in the alleged burglary (or staging) room, but no trace of Rudy (DNA or fingerprint) was found there where he supposedly climbed in, and searched the room.
Moreover no trace of Rudy was found in the bathroom, where he supposedly must have been to wash himself, while he was dirty with blood and maybe wounded and he supposely touched several things (light interruptor, faucet, bidet); only Knox and Meredith's DNA was found in this bathroom. This bathroom is obviously an extension of the murder scene, since it was a location for the murderer's activity and his interaction with environment.
And, a Knife was found with Amanda's DNA on it which has the victim's DNA on it. I know that you would believe a contamination, but I see no basis for that, in my opinion it is not possible to make this claim even based on the C&V report. I've read the report rather carefully.
A final note: Amanda's false accusation was a story in which she was in the kitchen while someone else was killing Meredith. She would have been guilty in that case too. A person doesn't need to be physically in the murder room to be guilty of murder.

 

[Machiavelli]

We can't know that of course. But say that Knox and Sollecito will eventually be acquitted by the supreme court and that the verdict is according to 530.1.

Under those circumstances, could Guede be convicted of Calunnia against Knox and Sollecito for what he said in court?

An acquittal on Knox and Sollecito is still not enough in my opinion. You also need a new, different verdict on Guede. Because also Guede has a 530.1 on burglary and his conviction is only valid concurring with other perpetrators.

 

[Machiavelli]

The prosecution doesn't need his DNA, just an ink print of his foot. There was an ambiguous print on a fluffy surface in the bathroom that could be "matched" to many depending on how one interprets the blood drops that blended in with the stain. They could even hire some of the amateur, guilter footprint experts like "Kermit" to give some new measurements.

It cannot be matched to many.

 

[Machiavelli]

I know the semen stain was never tested but was it ever collected ? Just in case ? Rudy acts like he never finished business because his bowel movement got the best of him overriding his desire to finish what he started. I don't recall reading anywhere that he admits the semen stain on the pillow is his, just that he had sex with the victim.

He denied explicitly a semen stain could be his, in his first skype conversation.

 

[Ammonitida]

It cannot be matched to many.

I agree. It can't be matched to anybody.

 

[Mary_H]

An acquittal on Knox and Sollecito is still not enough in my opinion. You also need a new, different verdict on Guede. Because also Guede has a 530.1 on burglary and his conviction is only valid concurring with other perpetrators.

It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of law. If Amanda and Raffaele are innocent of the crime, then Rudy is guilty of falsely accusing them.

 

[GreyFox]

He denied explicitly a semen stain could be his, in his first skype conversation.

Oh, well then who's is it ? Clearly it would be very damning for anybody, given it's location at the crime scene . So why would you say they chose not to test it?

 

[Poppy1016]

Although Mach has chosen to not answer any of my questions, I will try once more. I was wondering if there is ever a case that is so terrible that a fast track trial can be refused. Just curious.

 

[Malkmus]

No, Rudy Guede will only be a source of problems for Knox and Sollecito in the future.
He has not became "guilty" of anything more, by now. He has not committed any burglary.
But if he gains a new trial, not only he will not tke any risk, he will also most likely be released.His game - if legally conducted by his lawyers - will be: do you think I have committed a burglary and murdered alone? Then prove it.
If he is entitled a new trial on this, he has very good chances to be released in the meanwhile. And he would stay in freedom for two or three years at least (if not forever).
But this only can happen if Knox and Sollecito had won at the Cassazione. If they loose, the story will be way different.

On what grounds would a jury possibly release Rudy?

He has admitted to letting Meredith die.

I would love to hear what you think would convince a jury to let him go.

 

[Ammonitida]

I don't know what they think, but by my understanding Raffaele Sollecito did leave his DNA in the murder room.

Along with the DNA of two other unidentified males. Perhaps Koko was one of them?

He did also leave his footprint in blood, by the way.

That has not been established, by the way. We have a real expert who "matched" the footprint to Guede -- amateur, guilter, internet experts can cry. Plus, we have the backing of Hellman's court. You just wait and see.

Four DNA traces of Rudy were found in Meredith's room.

Because a great struggle took place there where Rudy by himself raped and murdered a woman who had the misfortune of interrupting his burglary in progress. In addition to that DNA of his, forensic evidence that can't be explained away by contamination was also found there in the form of bloody shoeprints, fingerprints and palmprints -- all matching Rudy. Nothing like that from the other two former suspects though.

One of Raffaele Sollecito.

And two others. Koko? We need his DNA profile ASAP.

None was found of Amanda,

I know the reason why.

but I am wary about those numbers, because sampling follows a method itself selective. Nobody will know, for example, who was the owner of the long straigth light coloured hair, nor who had grabbed the victim's hir or who covered her mouth: no male DNA could be recovered from those areas. Often you need a Y-haplotype to spot DNA on a victim's body.

That's a stretch, and besides bloody shoe prints, footprints and fingerprints could be found but they weren't (at least those belonging to Amanda), yet the prosecution's contention is that she got close and personal with the murder weapon. That magic rag again. Oh, and why is it that only the clasp links Raff? Was his participation in this orgy limited to gang raping the sexy clasp with two unknown men while Rudy raped Meredith and Amanda stabbed her (with the magic knife that didn't fit the wound)? Just what kind of orgy was this?

On the other hand, I can note that a mixed luminol trace with DNA of Knox and Meredith was found in the alleged burglary (or staging) room,

Yeah, a mixed trace with three individuals, evidence that a lesbian orgy had taken place there.

but no trace of Rudy (DNA or fingerprint) was found there where he supposedly climbed in, and searched the room.

Burglars (like Rudy) often wear gloves I'm told but I could be wrong about that. He did leave behind fingerprints at the murder room but then maybe he removed his gloves to better enjoy the sexual contact. And as far as I know, a struggle for life and death didn't take place in Filomena's room.

Moreover no trace of Rudy was found in the bathroom, where he supposedly must have been to wash himself, while he was dirty with blood and maybe wounded and he supposely touched several things (light interruptor, faucet, bidet);

No struggle for life and death happened there either. Just a clean-up by Rudy that did in fact leave a trace, on the bathmat. Oh that's right, that belonged to Raff except that no DNA of his was found there either. I blame the magic rag that cleaned it all away.

only Knox and Meredith's DNA was found in this bathroom. This bathroom is obviously an extension of the murder scene, since it was a location for the murderer's activity and his interaction with environment.

In the bathroom that was shared by Amanda and Meredith for weeks.

And, a Knife was found with Amanda's DNA on it which has the victim's DNA on it. I know that you would believe a contamination, but I see no basis for that, in my opinion it is not possible to make this claim even based on the C&V report. I've read the report rather carefully.

Let me help you here.

1. There was no blood found on the knife using two tests, one presumptive and the other confirmatory.

2. That knife was excluded from the main stab wound to the neck.

"That this knife was absolutely incompatible derived from the examination of the wound on the right part of the neck, which had absolutely incompatible dimensions:" Massei

3. The DNA signal was so weak that when taking into account the two aforementioned factors, contamination is a very likely explanation.

4. Only Amanda's DNA was found on the handle which would mean that she got knife happy if you accept the guilter position, yet no tangible evidence of her presence was found at the crime scene while a truckload of such evidence was found implicating Rudy. Doesn't make sense.