Gang stalking paranoia

[AaronAgassi]

carlitos, it's not your skepticism but your irate and impatient disapproval that is becoming a problem. I just can't talk more about something this painful, with someone so manifestly unsympathetic and even scornful. And if you can be at all honest with yourself, I'm sure that you'll realize that you wouldn't, either. You are pressing the boundaries of civility. "links to definitions of gang stalking that you previously disavowed as being driven by "whackos."" Simply not so. Moreover, if you really don’t understand the sneakiness of bullies, then before we even get to shunning, mobbing and gang stalking, if you won't research covert relational hostility etc., even when the links are spoon fed to you, then I simply can't take you seriously. I wonder if you're not just busting my chops.

 

[Kid Eager]

carlitos, it's not your skepticism but your irate and impatient disapproval that is becoming a problem. I just can't talk more about something this painful, with someone so manifestly unsympathetic and even scornful. And if you can be at all honest with yourself, I'm sure that you'll realize that you wouldn't, either. You are pressing the boundaries of civility. "links to definitions of gang stalking that you previously disavowed as being driven by "whackos."" Simply not so. Moreover, if you really don’t understand the sneakiness of bullies, then before we even get to shunning, mobbing and gang stalking, if you won't research covert relational hostility etc., even when the links are spoon fed to you, then I simply can't take you seriously. I wonder if you're not just busting my chops.

So far your discourse on this thread does nothing to distinguish it from the lunatic fringe claims of gangstalking that you are railing against.

The website contributes nothing for the reasons previously mentioned.

You're going nowhere - it appears to be a circular discussion and circular thought process that you're locked into:
- the term gangstalking has be overtaken by the lunatic fringe
- gangstalking happens
- gangstalking is happening to me
- this is distinguishable from imagined gangstalking because..... ??????

 

[carlitos]

carlitos, it's not your skepticism but your irate and impatient disapproval that is becoming a problem. I just can't talk more about something this painful, with someone so manifestly unsympathetic and even scornful.

You haven't given one concrete example of "gang stalking." Not one. Not to you, not to anyone. You made vague allusions to you being "harassed, thrown out, banned" from some convention. After my asking you half a dozen times, you are unable to say Who did what do whom, where, when and why?

If I were stalked and then kicked out of a convention, I could tell you the story:

After following me around all weekend and making threats, on Sunday morning of the ComiCon in Los Angeles in 2009, 2 security guards wearing yellow jackets grabbed me and escorted me out of the convention, after I grabbed Stan Lee's ass. They took my credentials, threw me out and told me not to come back.​

Why can't you do this? If it's too emotional for you, tell me of another gang-stalking victim besides yourself.

And if you can be at all honest with yourself, I'm sure that you'll realize that you wouldn't, either. You are pressing the boundaries of civility.

Look, I realize that this is an emotional issue for you. But your inability to articulate it beyond these grandiose, and frankly unreadable generalities, is your own problem. If you want people to take you seriously, you need to speak clearly and state your claim. That you can't or won't do so gives me suspicion that you are one of the paranoid cranks that you previously condemn.

"links to definitions of gang stalking that you previously disavowed as being driven by "whackos."" Simply not so.

Gas lighting is typically employed in order to condition and sensitize the target of bullying to certain cues that can be more readily employed to elicit stressful and maddening hypervigilance in the hapless target of bullying, to make them seem all the more haunted and undesirable, even in moments or upon occasions when in actuality only a small number of the bullies or unwitting proxies and utter tools are at all available within the harassment perimeter of the target of bullying for the ambient or stealth abuse that is organized gang stalking, and therefore there is no way for the target thereof to know how deeply community based or not.

Definition of gang stalking, linked by clicking the words "organized gang stalking" in your posted paragraph:

Gang Stalking ... seeks to destroy every aspect of a Targeted Individuals life ... the target is followed around 24/7 by the various communities ... Everyone in the targets life is contacted ... Advised not to discuss the notification and asked to be a part of the ongoing, never ending monitoring (systemic harassment) process ... harassed and placed under surveillance in this way for months or even years before they realize that they are being targeted by an organized protocol of harassment. [stalkers are] only to be seen in twos -- we often do not have the same proof -- Watching and recording the everyday activities...

When I previously posted that definition, you denounced it as being co-opted by cranks. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Moreover, if you really don’t understand the sneakiness of bullies, then before we even get to shunning, mobbing and gang stalking, if you won't research covert relational hostility etc., even when the links are spoon fed to you, then I simply can't take you seriously. I wonder if you're not just busting my chops.

Your failure to clearly explain what you mean is not my fault. This is called projection. I communicate just fine, and I am not at all busting your chops.

Please, pretty please with sugar on top, list one documented case of "gang stalking" per the common definition. Include the victim, the aggressor, the actions taken, and the reasons why. If not you, someone else.

 

[AaronAgassi]

Kid Eager, have you even been following this thread? I have explicitly rejected two distinct key claims so vehemently cleaved to by the crank conspiracists regarding gang stalking.

carlitos, I regret that I simply cannot give you the kind of blow by blow account of an ongoing retraumatization that you demand under the current pressure you insist upon exerting. You have even begun to chop up my sentences to the point of quoting me out of context. I am done with you until you amend your short attention span badgering tone and b) you click the damn links that will explain to you most generally, about how bullies tend to be sneaky, and understand the concept to your own satisfaction. There is nothing that I can explain to you until then. You are just unteachable.

 

[carlitos]

Best of luck with your issues. If you haven't already, I'd ask a mental health professional for an opinion on your website, and maybe share your POV about how you are being stalked. Couldn't hurt.

 

[AaronAgassi]

Thanks for the tip, carlitis. And let me return the favor: Perhaps there is anyone you respect, whim you might feel comfortable to consult on the inappropriateness of your demeanor. I hope that you have anyone with greater sensitivity than yourself, in order to help you deal with your hostility issues that so manifestly undermine your critical thinking and Dialectic. All I asked you to do, was not to flame while questioning me on sensitive personal matters, to stop browbeating. Do you know what browbeating means, catlitos? Browbeating is not incisive or disputative, but merely uncivil, impolite, dickish. But don't take my word for it. Ask around. Curiosity is the medium of compassion. If being a dick is more important to you than getting your answers, then you are no more genuinely interested than you are sympathetic. BTW, my psychiatric diagnosis does indeed include ongoing traumatic stress from mobbing and bullying. I won't ask for yours

 

[Hans]

Of course Aaron you could have just answered the questions instead of evoking drama.....

 

[AaronAgassi]

Pay attention, Hans: No I couldn't. You have to be respectful when pressing for painful details in another person's life, that after all, aren't owed to anyone else.

 

[carlitos]

Just to clear the recorrd, I asked for one specific case of "gang stalking," from anyone at alll, not necessarily one from Mr. Agassi. He's got a whole website about this "problem" and he can't name one specific incidence of it. His ramblings are indistinguishable from those of a pananoid szhizophrenic. Asking someone that is claiming something for evidence is not bullying. On the converse, being deliberately vague and obtuse while avoiding direct questions is a control mechanism employed by people with passive- aggressive personality disorder. Pot, meet kettle. When I have to ask a queston half a dozen times, I feel like I'm being played. Adios.

 

[Hans]

Pay attention, Hans: No I couldn't. You have to be respectful when pressing for painful details in another person's life, that after all, aren't owed to anyone else.

Then why are you on a public site crying about something you don't want to discuss? If you weren't here no one would question you.

Again more drama and no answers.If you are so vulnerable don't post on public websites then NO ONE will 'press you'......

Asking someone that is claiming something for evidence is not bullying. On the converse, being deliberately vague and obtuse while avoiding direct questions is a control mechanism employed by people with passive- aggressive personality disorder. Pot, meet kettle. When I have to ask a queston half a dozen times, I feel like I'm being played. Adios.

Hmmm sound advice. Ciao

 

[Horatius]

Just to clear the recorrd, I asked for one specific case of "gang stalking," from anyone at alll, not necessarily one from Mr. Agassi. He's got a whole website about this "problem" and he can't name one specific incidence of it. His ramblings are indistinguishable from those of a pananoid szhizophrenic. Asking someone that is claiming something for evidence is not bullying. On the converse, being deliberately vague and obtuse while avoiding direct questions is a control mechanism employed by people with passive- aggressive personality disorder. Pot, meet kettle. When I have to ask a queston half a dozen times, I feel like I'm being played. Adios.

Then why are you on a public site crying about something you don't want to discuss? If you weren't here no one would question you.

Again more drama and no answers.If you are so vulnerable don't post on public websites then NO ONE will 'press you'......



Hmmm sound advice. Ciao

And in addition to all of that, being the one who bumped this thread after almost a year of no posts.

 

[Kid Eager]

Kid Eager, have you even been following this thread? I have explicitly rejected two distinct key claims so vehemently cleaved to by the crank conspiracists regarding gang stalking.

there's the irony - you reject two distinct claims, then embrace the rest for yourself as if the rejection validates the remainder. Doesn't work that way, I'm afraid.

As I said before, the website is doing you no favours at all - it's incoherent and looks like it was designed by an octopus on crack.

 

[AaronAgassi]

Since I am now accused of inconsistency, not so: I also have an anti-flaming page. And until we can agree that hostility and personal attack are simply out of bounds, then we are at an impasse that you cannot sidestep. I'm simply not pouring out my heart to some snarky douche bag. The ball remains in your court.

Kid Eager, I have no idea what you are talking about. What do you think are the two claims I mentioned? Just checking.

 

[Agatha]

Nobody's asking you to 'pour your heart out'; you are simply being asked to illustrate your claims that gangstalking exists with an actual example of the phenomenon. This does not have to be something which happened to you, it could be an anecdote from someone else.

 

[LightinDarkness]

Like everyone else, I've read the posts by Aaron trying to figure out what exactly type of claim hes making...and then I read this:

carlitos, as you request, I shall be more specific: Yes, I am a big nerd! And Science Fiction conventions are an important social outlet for me. Cons attract many kinds of vulnerable people to come and open themselves up, and interact more playfully than one ever will patiently hanging out in bars or whatever, but at the same time cons thereby draw the very bullies that prey upon people who are at all different. The socially inept in general, divide into two categories: the harmlessly awkward and oddball on the one hand, and the angry emotionally immature though actually well organized domineering social know-it-alls on the other. It's a disastrous mix! -like Junior High School on steroids, run by sadistic petty bureaucrats and Heterosexual vicious Queens and there toadies, and all completely unchecked, running rampant and rough shod over the most poorly equipped to deal with it and ever put a stop to it.

I think what hes had happen here is people be rude to him in public. If you go to a "con" your going to run into all kinds of people as you say...including people there to point and laugh at the people who dress up/do "nerdy" things.

It almost seems like Aaron is borderline trying to explain why people make fun of him and he immediately jumps to needing to find some all-encompassing conspiracy explanation for it. People are mean. If you do unusual things in public consistently, it wouldn't surprise me if people are rude to you occasionally...its not right, but people are people. That isn't gang stalking...its just how humans operate.

And he NEEDS this stuff to be true because organized gang stalking is, lets be honest with ourselves, much more exciting then simply telling them perhaps they shouldn't dress up and go full on nerd at cons and expect NO ONE to snicker in the background.

Again, I am not condoning being mean to people here...but snickering at people who are dressed up at comic cons (and things like that) is not organized stalking.

 

[Pup]

It almost seems like Aaron is borderline trying to explain why people make fun of him and he immediately jumps to needing to find some all-encompassing conspiracy explanation for it. People are mean. If you do unusual things in public consistently, it wouldn't surprise me if people are rude to you occasionally...its not right, but people are people. That isn't gang stalking...its just how humans operate.

I think you've nailed it. I gave my own specific example in a post above, which coincidentally was in sort of a similar hobby, living history, which still involves groups in public in costumes. Though it gets a bit more respect from the public by default, because it includes historians, museum docents, etc., as well as drunken rednecks.

But the "gang" aspect breaks down quickly, because it's hard to organize people and get them to agree on anything. Sheesh, just try to get them to all agree on the standards for a single event, let alone organize them into bullying somebody for years. It only works for a little while, then the cliques shift.

But yes, there's always going to be that dull roar in the background of people--different people--who like to pick on others, make "innocent" fun, disrupt things, bully the newcomers, engage in power struggles, etc. They're remarkably consistent, not because they all conspire and communicate, but just because they're the same personality type.

Some people have mental... I don't want to say illnesses, because it's not necessarily carried that far--but mental glitches, that make them seek patterns in everything, way more than what are really there.

The bullies who seem to be at every event, making fun of the awkward nerds, don't have to all communicate and plan in a vast conspiratorial pattern, because just like there will be awkward nerds at every event without some great nerd-scheduling conspiracy, there will also be bullying personality types without some great bully-planning conspiracy.

 

[Horatius]

Since I am now accused of inconsistency, not so: I also have an anti-flaming page. And until we can agree that hostility and personal attack are simply out of bounds, then we are at an impasse that you cannot sidestep. I'm simply not pouring out my heart to some snarky douche bag. The ball remains in your court.

One of these things is not like the other.

 

[AaronAgassi]

Agatha, sorry for any confusion, but carlitos was indeed actually nagging me for sensitive details, blow by blow, of my own travails, because, unfortunately, I have little more to offer in the way of evidence. So I asked carlitos to amend his demeanor and to stop pressurizing me, and he flatly refused, becoming even more overtly abusive. Hence my non cooperation. Notice that carlitos will not agree with me that hostility and personal attack are simply out of bounds. -Nor has anyone else here, for that matter.

LightinDarkness. Overt rudeness and nastiness, even more subtle hostile social environment, are indeed the very least of it. But when you characterize me as alleging pervasive conspiracy, how pervasive do you mean? I have been fairly explicit on that very topic. Let's consider mobbing as observed in animal communities. Deliberate planning thereof would be fairly ruled out. And similar behavior is observed in human society as well. But in human society there can also be deliberation. That's hardly uncommon. Still, perhaps planning is unnecessary, and to whatever extent, serial bullying in society might nevertheless be apprehended as a propagation of habitual spontaneous and unthinking cruelty. It's still highly organized. Indeed, even preparatory activity might be viewed behaviorally, rather than cognitively. That might even help explain things. Still, I am also aware of actual scheming by any standard. As for organized stalking, do you even understand my definition? I am regularly stealthily followed around for purpose of harassment. And I'm not the only one, according to my inside source. So if you think that never happens, then you are mistaken.

Indeed, Pup, it is an absurd denial to insist that bullies do not forge relationships, organize and cooperate in serial bullying. Indeed, for that matter, bullying is often institutional and thereby features distinct abuse of power.

 

[Pup]

As for organized stalking, do you even understand my definition? I am regularly stealthily followed around for purpose of harassment. And I'm not the only one, according to my inside source. So if you think that never happens, then you are mistaken.

Indeed, Pup, it is an absurd denial to insist that bullies do not forge relationships, organize and cooperate in serial bullying. Indeed, for that matter, bullying is often institutional and thereby features distinct abuse of power.

The problem is, it's all a matter of degree, and without specifics, it's hard to tell what you're saying.

For example, take the claim of being followed around for the purpose of harrassment.

If someone said they were followed by bullies from a bar outside to the parking lot, I'd believe it easily. I'd even believe it if they said it happened a couple of times in a couple different cities over the last year, in unconnected incidents, because maybe they're the type who goes to the wrong places and looks vulnerable (a nerd who tries to act cool in tough bars, for example).

If another person said they were followed by a group of bullies from work to a gas station and then to a coffee shop after work, a couple times in the last week, I'd figure that's some serious harrassment, but still possible.

If they said they'd been followed by a series of different bullies everytime they went out in public, no matter where they were, in several different cities for the last ten years, and those bullies were all in communication with each other, I'd say they were suffering from a common symptom of mental illness.

So it's not as simple as saying that bullies follow people to harrass them, and us agreeing or disagreeing that it's plausible. It's a sliding scale from plausible to paranoia, depending on the specifics.

 

[fromdownunder]

Agatha, sorry for any confusion, but carlitos was indeed actually nagging me for sensitive details, blow by blow, of my own travails, because, unfortunately, I have little more to offer in the way of evidence. So I asked carlitos to amend his demeanor and to stop pressurizing me, and he flatly refused, becoming even more overtly abusive. Hence my non cooperation. Notice that carlitos will not agree with me that hostility and personal attack are simply out of bounds. -Nor has anyone else here, for that matter.

(bolding mine)

Now I understand why you think you are being gangstalked.

Norm