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There are no material objects

Jonesboy said:
You started it, you finish it.
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I did not start this thread. Do try and keep up. You started it, don't you remember?

Objects do not set their own physical limits. An object is a set of physical limits that we alone have drawn upon materials and space. For example, only the concept of entertainment distinguishes a TV from the carpet it stands on.

While this doen't rule out materiality, it rules out material objects. An object is a construction of sentient creatures.
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dafydd said:
I did not start this thread. Do try and keep up. You started it, don't you remember?
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I think he equates everyone he doesn't like with everyone else he doesn't like, so he can't see a difference between you and the mods. Also, he considers a merged thread to be a new thread started by the mods.
 
Dancing David said:
How to make a Jonesboy thread truly incoherent, merge it with another and then cross file the posts.
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Now, after having two threads with basically the same premiss merged, Jonesboy is going back and editing out all his posts from the recently started thread. I assume out of embarrassment, but possibly just to try and make the thread even more incoherent.
 
Twiler said:
I think he equates everyone he doesn't like with everyone else he doesn't like, so he can't see a difference between you and the mods. Also, he considers a merged thread to be a new thread started by the mods.
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I was neither a mod or a rocker.
 
Mashuna said:
Now, after having two threads with basically the same premiss merged, Jonesboy is going back and editing out all his posts from the recently started thread. I assume out of embarrassment, but possibly just to try and make the thread even more incoherentt.
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That would take some doing considering some of the word salads that we have had.
 
So, to continue with the debate, while I cannot deny the possibility of non-material entities existing but being undetectable, I don't consider them to exist in any sense that is meaningful.

I don't believe that cartesian dualism can be valid, due to the impossibility of interactions between material and non-material entities.

Information consists of 'patterns' of matter, rather than something different and opposed to them.
 
Twiler said:
So, to continue with the debate, while I cannot deny the possibility of non-material entities existing but being undetectable, I don't consider them to exist in any sense that is meaningful.

I don't believe that cartesian dualism can be valid, due to the impossibility of interactions between material and non-material entities.

Information consists of 'patterns' of matter, rather than something different and opposed to them.
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If they can't be detected and have no effect in the real world then to all intents and purposes they do not exist. We will wait for BDZ's list of immaterial things then we will see if they can be detected or not.
 
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Dancing David said:
How to make a Jonesboy thread truly incoherent, merge it with another and then cross file the posts.
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Exactly, is this supposed to help.. who? help the server by diminishing the load? No. Help the ones who are posting and trying to understand each other? No. Who makes this kind of decisions?
 
dafydd said:
Education might take care of that. Please list some of the immaterial things that the universe contains.
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Excuse me for saying, this, I'm sorry, I really am, but I believe you are either one incredible obtuse individual or you are a joke. Re reading the post in which you first committed your straw man fallacy (I believe you can find the relevant info looking for logical fallacies) I found this:

I said:


As long as there are materialists there will be immaterialists, it is as simple as that.


You replied:

Education might take care of that. Please list some of the immaterial things that the universe contains.

Now... :rolleyes: WHY ON EARTH should I do a list immaterial things? How on earth can you conclude that I'm a lunatic who believes in woo (like yourself?). What a joke. And sorry, I'm not trying to be offensive, but your whole attitude is.
 
Twiler said:
He's trying to reinterpret the scientific view of the world as being a stilted perspective, saying that the materialist view of the world is subjective rather than objective, so he can start claiming that his theories are better because they embrace a wider view.

And yet, this computer continues to function.
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With the recent merge (bad call BTW) I don't know who is this addressed to. Still, I can say that any... you read it well... ANY view of the word is subjective... EVERY SINGLE ONE... and yes, a theoretical model which embraces more facts can be considered as a better one, this happens all the time.

I'm glad your computer works, congratulations.

Straw man at sight! :rolleyes:
 
Twiler said:
In this example, NO theists have ever existed, so there is NO set of words to distinguish atheism and theism. IF all the materialists vanished, the set of words distinguishing materialism from non-materialism would NOT. The existence of non-materialists is NOT dependent on materialists.
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Are you getting it wrong on purpose? ontology is moot, matter was opposed to spirit, both "substances" are pure woo.
 
dafydd said:
Bet you he posts a non-post that he says he has already made that point. He is unable to list any immaterial things in the universe so all we get is waffle.
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1) you introduced the notion that I was "defending" immaterial stuff :rolleyes: that is called a straw man fallacy... nevertheless

2) I gave you several examples of non material things, you ignored them :rolleyes:
 
Twiler said:
Information consists of 'patterns' of matter, rather than something different and opposed to them.
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An important point to make here is that "immaterial stuff" is NOT equal to "supernatural stuff", its a point sometimes neglected as some people, at least in the JREF, see them as equals. That said, how is the value of a coin a "pattern of matter"?
 
Bodhi Dharma Zen said:
Exactly, is this supposed to help.. who? help the server by diminishing the load? No. Help the ones who are posting and trying to understand each other? No. Who makes this kind of decisions?
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My fault, this one. Although he's since deleted his opening post, Jonesboy had started another thread in the Science forum about, basically, how material objects don't really exist. I suggested a merge to the mods after the first post, but by the time they came to merge it there were a number of new posts in both threads that then just appeared in chronological order rather than thread order.
 
Bodhi Dharma Zen said:
An important point to make here is that "immaterial stuff" is NOT equal to "supernatural stuff", its a point sometimes neglected as some people, at least in the JREF, see them as equals. That said, how is the value of a coin a "pattern of matter"?
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Explain what you mean please.
 
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